Realizations you've made now that dame is leaving.

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SlyPokerCat said:
Of course on Scoot/Sharpe. But if they ball out next year and we still suck, we get a high draft pick to trade or select to grow with them. And they are super young, so plenty of time to grow and try to build around them.

I don't know how anyone couldn't be excited for the opportunities with Scoot. Dude has star written all over him. May never be as good as Dame, but he doesn't have to be. We have time to try to get it right and hopefully the assets we get back from a Dame trade helps that.
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I'm excited that Scoot could be good. If he turns out to be 90% of what Dame was, that will be huge. If he turns out to be a Top 75 player, we hit the lottery twice!
 
Tince said:
You're referencing less than 1% of Dame's field goal attempt (which he made at a high effective FG% and stretched out defenses) as a contributor of "not winning basketball"?

I'm willing to bet Billups' offense w/out Dame with not finish with a higher rating than the average rate we had with Dame over the past 8 seasons.
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I wasn't referencing any stats or frequency...just that particular basketball style is not in my opinion team basketball ..Dame is an amazing shooter with incredible range...it's not always the best way to get the ball moving around and tire out a defense...it's the opposite..give them long rebounds and transition buckets.
 
Natebishop3 said:
He’s 33. I think people overvalue being mediocre and undervalue rebuilding. Especially when you already have two great building blocks.
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This is exactly my point. A lot of people seem so confident Scoot/Sharpe are two great building blocks based on a lot of assumptions and very little NBA productivity. I'm not ruling out that they both could be very good players, but the hit rate for two guys to both be star players, one drafted #3 with no NBA experience and the other drafted #7, who wasn't even All-Rookie 2nd team is not going to be near 50%. Doesn't mean it can't happen, doesn't mean I don't want it to happen, but the confidence level around here seems to be that it's likely.

If the pattern of this forum holds to form, I can see Sharpe being the whipping boy around here sooner than not. Mainly because the expectations for him were unrealistic.
 
Tince said:
This is exactly my point. A lot of people seem so confident Scoot/Sharpe are two great building blocks based on a lot of assumptions and very little NBA productivity. I'm not ruling out that they both could be very good players, but the hit rate for two guys to both be star players, one drafted #3 with no NBA experience and the other drafted #7, who wasn't even All-Rookie 2nd team is not going to be near 50%. Doesn't mean it can't happen, doesn't mean I don't want it to happen, but the confidence level around here seems to be that it's likely.

If the pattern of this forum holds to form, I can see Sharpe being the whipping boy around here sooner than not. Mainly because the expectations for him were unrealistic.
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Some of Dames biggest fans have already started on Sharpe.
 
riverman said:
I wasn't referencing any stats or frequency...just that particular basketball style is not in my opinion team basketball ..Dame is an amazing shooter with incredible range...it's not always the best way to get the ball moving around and tire out a defense...it's the opposite..give them long rebounds and transition buckets.
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Did we give up an abnormal amount of transition buckets when Dame took long shots? Or even over the years Dame was on the team?

At point we probably should stop regurgitating the out-dated principals from our JV basketball coaches and look at the data, since the data is available. Now obviously, if you personally don't like watching it, that's a fair matter of opinion. Suggesting it's not winning basketball or is hurting the team, should be backed up by data though.
 
Tince said:
Did we give up an abnormal amount of transition buckets when Dame took long shots? Or even over the years Dame was on the team?

At point we probably should stop regurgitating the out-dated principals from our JV basketball coaches and look at the data, since the data is available. Now obviously, if you personally don't like watching it, that's a fair matter of opinion. Suggesting it's not winning basketball or is hurting the team, should be backed up by data though.
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yes..we gave up a ton of transition buckets and wore our own defense out chasing their guards back down court. Hitting game winning deep 3s is awesome...I particularly mentioned not early in the shot clock. I'm not talking about the LA Rolo Wes Nico team..that team played defense. Defensive principals don't get outdated in my view except for handchecking or flopping.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Some of Dames biggest fans have already started on Sharpe.
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No doubt. Most likely, some of Sharpes biggest fans today will turn on him in the next two seasons in favorite of a 2025 prospect.

Sharpe has amazing tools, but got hurt last summer, didn't produce much as a rookie, and didn't dominate summer league this year. Yet the expectation from some is that he'll be a future All-NBA or All-Star, and at worst, a great building block of a great team. To me, that's an unrealistic expectation, that shouldn't be held against him if he fails to meet it.
 
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riverman said:
yes..we gave up a ton of transition buckets and wore our own defense out chasing their guards back down court. Hitting game winning deep 3s is awesome...I particularly mentioned not early in the shot clock.
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Where did that rank in the league? On Dame's long shots, early in the shot clock, specifically.
 
riverman said:
We missed the playoffs and had a bottom feeding defense for 3 years straight... That's the end result that should be the kicker. Dame can put up some amazing offensive stats...sure. That was not my point though.
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Oh, I agree we've missed the playoffs and our team defense has been bad. I've been saying for years now that the roster, not the scheme, not the coaching, and not one player was the problem. I certainly got push back on some of those thing, but it's still bad despite coaching changes, scheme changes, and roster changes. I guess next year we'll see if we're a top 10 defense because Dame was holding the team back; I doubt that'll be the case though.

I haven't seen anything that has shows the teams defensive rating is worse when Dame takes an early, deep three. I'm not saying it's better either. I just haven't seen any data to back that up.
 
Tince said:
No doubt. Most likely, some of Sharpes biggest fans today will turn on him in the next two seasons in favorite of a 2025 prospect.

Sharpe has amazing tools, but got hurt last summer, didn't produce much as a rookie, and didn't dominate summer league this year. Yet the expectation from some is that he'll be a future All-NBA or All-Star, and at worst, a great building block of a great team. To me, that's an unrealistic expectation, that shouldn't be held against him if he fails to meet it.
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He’s 20. He has a ton of potential. So does Scoot. There’s gonna be people who put too much on him. That’s just how it works. He just needs to keep improving. Maybe he never will. Part of the game.
 
Natebishop3 said:
He’s 20. He has a ton of potential. So does Scoot. There’s gonna be people who put too much on him. That’s just how it works. He just needs to keep improving. Maybe he never will. Part of the game.
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I agree he's 20. I agree he has a ton of potential. As does Scoot.

Potential doesn't win in the NBA.
 
Tince said:
I agree he's 20. I agree he has a ton of potential. As does Scoot.

Potential doesn't win in the NBA.
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Potential is what leads to wins in the NBA. The clock is running out on Dame. We wasted his prime. Now we need to find another Dame. We have to reset the clock.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Potential is what leads to wins in the NBA. The clock is running out on Dame. We wasted his prime. Now we need to find another Dame. We have to reset the clock.
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I don't think the first part is accurate. I agree we wasted Dame's prime. I don't agree we have to reset the clock, but it appears we're going to.

I'll be rooting hard for the next group to turn into contending team. Scoot and Sharpe specifically.
 
Tince said:
I don't like the Dame wants out, but I totally understand it.

We havent won a title with Dame, thats a fact. We don't know if we could've won a title if Dame was given a solid supporting cast. I'd also venture a bet we won't be winning a title anytime soon without Dame; so the Blazers winning a title has less to do with Dame and more to do with ownership, the front office, the market, etc. in my opinion.
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It's not about Dame wanting out. I think universally people respect that decision.

It's how they are going about the strongarming of the organization that people are taking issue with.
 
Tince said:
I don't think the first part is accurate. I agree we wasted Dame's prime. I don't agree we have to reset the clock, but it appears we're going to.

I'll be rooting hard for the next group to turn into contending team. Scoot and Sharpe specifically.
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So what was the realistic alternative to what we're doing? Keeping in mind we're Portland.

The only answer: Reset.
 
Strenuus said:
The first thing I've come to realize is I watched a lot less games the last 3-4 years of dames time here. It had become so predictable, relying on dame to bail out average players on an average team.

Sure, 2019 was fun. But after that, nothing. I guess I'm ready to admit I was just bored of the Dame-led blazers.

What say you?
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I been telling you this for years. The Dame era was getting played out.. glad he’s leaving
 
Dame has been amazing in his Dame Time shots to win games, his 70+pt scoring, coaching of Simons and Sharpe, and team leadership. It was highly entertaining to watch him have his best season last year!

Dame has 5+ years as an All-star player left, based on his strength, work ethic, and infrequent missed games due to injury. And he has a lot to offer in leading and improving Shae, Scoot, Kris, Jabari, Ryan, and others. There is a major role that Dame can play to help the 2023-2024 Blazers before he leaves.

After Dame is gone, I will root for him to continue to excel, with improved scoring of 80+ in a game, an average of 32+ ppg, and continued key play of the season highlights. If there is no value trade deal that makes sense for the Blazers, Dame may have a major positive influence on the Blazers this season.
 
That a lot of fans don’t really care about winning a title

That a lot of fans think making baskets is the most important thing
 
My view of him hasn't changed, except for wondering how sincere he was about not going "ring chasing".

His desire to spend the last few years of his career somewhere else is fine by me. That doesn't make him a bad person. But the fact that he thinks he has the right to dictate that he be sent to one team is a bit twatish. Has a player done that before? Given a 1 team demand with 4 years left on his contract?
 
Natebishop3 said:
That's why I have been beating this drum for years because there was never a chance that this front office could build a contender around Dame. It just wasn't going to happen.... and the value we're going to get for Dame is only going to continually get worse. If it's bad now, it's going to be worse a year from now. That's why I'm not upset with Dame leaving. The separation has been a long time coming.
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There was always a chance the team could be sold to a better owner and the proper moves made.

But yeah, Blazer basketball became too predictable.
 
blazerkor said:
I don't know if @e_blazer had their timeline screwed up or not but it happened between that second season and the trade deadline of that third. Very obviously by the time that third season was over it was far too late to salvage that situation and get any value for LaMarcus. Just the first in a very long series of catastrophic mistakes led by Olshey in trying to build around Dame and co-piloted by Cronin.
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Not getting a legitimate All Star return for Aldridge was almost criminal. I think Olshey should have been fired for malpractice right then.

Honestly, as soon it appeared Aldridge was going to choose becoming unrestricted over re-signing somebody should have stepped in and made sure he was traded.
 
Tince said:
I don't like the Dame wants out, but I totally understand it.

We havent won a title with Dame, thats a fact. We don't know if we could've won a title if Dame was given a solid supporting cast. I'd also venture a bet we won't be winning a title anytime soon without Dame; so the Blazers winning a title has less to do with Dame and more to do with ownership, the front office, the market, etc. in my opinion.
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Absolutely. But the way Dame is going about it is going to hurt his legacy in Portland.

I don't necessarily blame him, but it is what it is.

The blame here lies on Olshey and the Vulcans.

We really need to see this team sold.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Dame is fucking amazing. Pure pleasure to watch. Bored? Really? Dame polished a lot of turd rosters for the Blazers and drug them to the playoffs.
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Frankly, for me, I was bored even tho everything you say about Dame is true. In the last several years the only time I was really excited to see the Blazers because of Dame was the one month a year he goes super nuclear and leave scorched earth behind him.

Last year was actually more entertaining because we had new faces on the roster, seeing Grant for a while, seeing Hart and Winslow pushing the tempo, seeing Sharpe as he developed. But even that year, the Blazers as were still boring to see on defense mostly - since you knew what will happen - and it was just a question if the opposing team attacked down-hill or got hot from the 3 since the Blazers were so exposed on defense.

Part of the boredom is the monotony of 82 games a year which is, frankly, too many. Part of it is that there is only so many times you can get excited about seeing the same thing which is mostly individual excellence. If the Blazers played a more pass-happy game (think, the Spurs of the 2014 season) - it would be more entertaining to watch. But the Blazers mostly played a Dame centric offense and a bit of the off-the-ball movement that we saw under TS has gone away under Billups.

Here is hoping for more ball movements, more fast-breaks and interest see higher tempo and hopefully, some day, defense.
 
riverman said:
That shooting 40 ft jumpers early in the clock is probably not winning basketball. Also that Chauncey is on the clock now without Dame to run the offense. We get to see what Chauncey can do with a fresh roster of young talent. I've also thought that it might not be the best practice to give the team to a rookie but to develop good habits first. Let him earn it. Make the new guys learn defense first and make that more of a priority
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So you think the best way for Scoot and/or Shae to learn defense is to have them play behind Anfernee??? Has Ant mad defense a priority over offensive development? I honestly think both Scoot and Shaedon have shown that they want to go out there and get to it on the defensive end and they've shown that desire more than any guard who has regularly started for our team since Wes. So why not get them out there right now and have them learn from getting reps, getting experience?
 
Tince said:
I don't like the Dame wants out, but I totally understand it.

We havent won a title with Dame, thats a fact. We don't know if we could've won a title if Dame was given a solid supporting cast. I'd also venture a bet we won't be winning a title anytime soon without Dame; so the Blazers winning a title has less to do with Dame and more to do with ownership, the front office, the market, etc. in my opinion.
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I don't like it that Lillard wants out, but totally understand it & in fact fully expected it. That said, the way his camp has conducted themselves this offseason is very disappointing. While I never bought into the Saint Damien reputation he built in Portland, the self serving, tone deaf way things have been handled has been a needless gut punch to the fan base that completely exposes that reputation as a fraud.

I'm very much on record hating most of the moves that Olshey made back when he made them, but they were not inexpensive. Ownership shelled out plenty for those moves and the fanbase/market largely supported them. No team is given a solid supporting cast. That has to be built over time with a series of shrewd moves. Portland's roster was constructed by a former Soap Opera douchebag seemingly spitballing together yearly episodes without any real plan. Ownership should have fired Soapy many years prior to when they finally did... hell, why did they hire such an idiot? Thats their failure here. But the lion's share of blame for why things didn't work out better belongs squarely on Neil.

STOMP
 
They hired Soapy McGee because Paul Allen wasn't nearly as shrewd a basketball guy as people posthumously claim he was.

I.e., "this wouldn't have happened if Paul Allen was still alive", as if this kind of shit didn't happen on a regular basis.
 
Without Dame, this franchise would have had a decade like the Kings.

Olshey inherited LMA. The closest the Blazers came to adding an all star to the team during the Dame era was a washed Carmelo.
 
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