Realizations you've made now that dame is leaving.

[Tince]

So what was the realistic alternative to what we're doing? Keeping in mind we're Portland.

The only answer: Reset.

How I feel before we're starting a full reset is very similar to how I felt before we started our last coaching change:

It's a new strategy that doesn't appear to address the real problem, and while it's possible it could turn out better, it is more likely than not that it won't produce a significant improvement and may make things worse. I'm not a fan of making things worse. This is why keeping Dame was my preference. Change for the sake of change, is not a great strategy in my opinion.

Again, I'm rooting for this new path to work, but it appears to me that a decent amount of people think this new pivot is already setup to be very successful, which I'm skeptical of.

 

[Tince]

Without Dame, this franchise would have had a decade like the Kings.

Olshey inherited LMA. The closest the Blazers came to adding an all star to the team during the Dame era was a washed Carmelo.

Bingo. I made the comparison about a year ago that we're much closer to turning into the Kings than we are the Warriors/Lakers etc. Turning into what the Kings have been would be brutal as a fan. Just two years of it was bad.

 

[Blazinaway]

I am more excited for the upcoming season as I have been for many years as the Dame lead team became very boring Bball for me to watch - way too much ISO ball and not enough team play and fast breaking and defense. Looking forward to a Scoot lead team, love rooting for the new/young guys.

 

[blazerfan11]

How I feel before we're starting a full reset is very similar to how I felt before we started our last coaching change:

It's a new strategy that doesn't appear to address the real problem, and while it's possible it could turn out better, it is more likely than not that it won't produce a significant improvement and may make things worse. I'm not a fan of making things worse. This is why keeping Dame was my preference. Change for the sake of change, is not a great strategy in my opinion.

Again, I'm rooting for this new path to work, but it appears to me that a decent amount of people think this new pivot is already setup to be very successful, which I'm skeptical of.

The typical way to turn things around in the NBA is to strike gold in the draft.
To reach the top of the mountain, it's pretty much a requirement.

 

[Tince]

The typical way to turn things around in the NBA is to strike gold in the draft.
To reach the top of the mountain, it's pretty much a requirement.

Correct. I've never advocated against drafting well; very much the opposite.

In the meantime, I feel maximizing assets, retaining top talent, and being a stable franchise puts you in a better position to take advantage if a team does strike gold in the draft.

 

[julius]

Who else should we have based the offense on? He was top 10 in assists per game last year, so it's not like the offense died when the ball was in his hands.

I think, at least to me, the "dame centered offense" just meant not holding anyone accountable for their shitty defense or defensive effort, and not trading for guys who would do that.

If your best acquisitions (defensively speaking) were Moe Harkless and Aminu...

 

[HailBlazers]

Ive realized Dame wears the number 0.

 

[SlyPokerCat]

In Schmitz we trust.

Could we have been the Kings? Sure, but the Kings are the Kings because they had drafted horribly for so long. If we would have been that bad we would have had multiple cracks at bringing in high level talent. Hard to say if we would have drafted well or not. Olsheys group had some pretty good hits and some misses.

 

[e_blazer]

Aldridge and Lillard played together for three seasons.
Lopez replaced Hickson in Lillard's second season.

Yeah, I should have looked it up instead of trusting my memory. Still though, the larger point I was making is that the Blazers never built a true contender around Dame. Dame was drafted and added to the Aldridge-lead Blazers. That roster had been assembled before Olshey. Once the wheels came off with Aldridge’s defection and Wes’s injury, there needed to be a full-on rebuild around Dame. Instead we got a series of patchwork lineups with weird assemblages of mediocre talent. I don’t know if Olshey thought he’d get canned if the team took a couple of steps back to reload with draft talent, or if Dame was simply too good and driven to allow tanking, but in hindsight it was a mistake.

 

[Tince]

I am more excited for the upcoming season as I have been for many years as the Dame lead team became very boring Bball for me to watch - way too much ISO ball and not enough team play and fast breaking and defense. Looking forward to a Scoot lead team, love rooting for the new/young guys.

I'm glad you're excited, I'm jut not sure what you've seen from Scoot in the G-League that makes you think the offense is going to be singificantly different. Obviously Scoot doesn't have the range of Dame, so we'll see less deep shots (and floor spacing), but his shot selection has always been one of his top 3 red-flags. Some of the keys to getting into the fast break is quality defense and rebounding, two things this team doesn't appear to be setup to be good at right now.

It could happen down the road I suppose.

 

[blazerfan11]

I am not so sure Dame is leaving.

I think Cronin was doing his best to make the team better the "old fashioned" way, through the draft, and that he was hoping Dame would stay.

Dame has made a fair trade very difficult by limiting the Blazers trading partner to one team that doesn't have much to give back.

It may be uncomfortable for Dame to play as a Trail Blazer again, but it's possible Cronin would like that just as much as any trade that doesn't bring back a win-now star. I don't think the other players care much either way. They just want to get on with it and play ball.

 

[blazerfan11]

Bingo. I made the comparison about a year ago that we're much closer to turning into the Kings than we are the Warriors/Lakers etc. Turning into what the Kings have been would be brutal as a fan. Just two years of it was bad.

That is yet to be determined.

 

[andalusian]

Who else should we have based the offense on? He was top 10 in assists per game last year, so it's not like the offense died when the ball was in his hands.

We are talking about different things, the blazers had to run through dame because of their dearth of assets. That does not change the fact that it got boring and repetitive.

Unfortunately, both are true.

 

[Sedatedfork]

Bring back “The Lillard Wars” thread

 

[BassPlaya]

Really loved watching the team last year. Sorry but I understand he wants to leave. Even more excited about next year, with or without Dame.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

In Schmitz we trust.

Could we have been the Kings? Sure, but the Kings are the Kings because they had drafted horribly for so long. If we would have been that bad we would have had multiple cracks at bringing in high level talent. Hard to say if we would have drafted well or not. Olsheys group had some pretty good hits and some misses.

I wonder if Scoot and Kris were his preferences for our picks.

 

[inconceivable]

Hot take: 99% of posters here (including those who are pissed at him now) will root for him and his new team in next year's finals

 

[Strenuus]

How I feel before we're starting a full reset is very similar to how I felt before we started our last coaching change:

It's a new strategy that doesn't appear to address the real problem, and while it's possible it could turn out better, it is more likely than not that it won't produce a significant improvement and may make things worse. I'm not a fan of making things worse. This is why keeping Dame was my preference. Change for the sake of change, is not a great strategy in my opinion.

Again, I'm rooting for this new path to work, but it appears to me that a decent amount of people think this new pivot is already setup to be very successful, which I'm skeptical of.

Well it should be built in to be skeptical of the change. I'm more in that camp too..

But I don't begrudge people for finally feeling optimism after the doldrums the past 5 years have brought.

I think it's fair to be both skeptical and excited.

 

[julius]

Hot take: 99% of posters here (including those who are pissed at him now) will root for him and his new team in next year's finals

I won't. I didn't root for Clyde when he left, I didn't root for Rasheed when he left (actually I did, but that was because it was against the Lakers). I don't care if Damian wins a title unless it's in Portland.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I won't. I didn't root for Clyde when he left.

Really? That playoff run Houston went on with Clyde was pretty damn fun to watch.


I wouldn't call it the greatest playoff run but it was special.

When talking about the greatest title runs in NBA Championship History, most don’t recall the 1994-1995 Houston Rockets who made theirs as a 6th seed. Heres why its the greatest, and most improbable, title run in NBA History.
As with most things in Sports, opinions of teams and their accomplishments can be skewed to fit a certain narrative by the fan telling it. These fans love to wax nostalgic over their sports champions of the past with present platitudes of the result of the teams success, but not the process in which they achieved it. Championship teams are built, not just in one transaction, but in a series of transactions. Those transactions hopefully produce what any GM making those moves longs for, a World Title. As a fan of the Houston Rockets, my focus today is on the 1994-1995 World Champion Houston Rockets and why their title run was the greatest in NBA history.

All NBA team champions must be celebrated by those who discuss them; as the arduous nature of the long season combined with now having to win 4 seven game series concurently in the post season, generally produces the best team that season (I’m aware of the 5 game 1st round series played by champions pre-2003 season). Even when you take into consideration injuries, the team left standing at the end of the year is the best team that year because they proved it. No paper tigers allowed here. Champions prove it in the playoffs.

Building a Champion
The 1993-1994 team had high expectations entering that season, internally, coming off a 55 win season but losing in 7 games to their nemesis the Seattle Supersonics in the 2nd round. They buoyed those expectations with two solid, under the radar transactions in the off-season.

First, they drafted Sam Cassell out of Florida State at the end of the first round. Then they acquired Mario Elie from Portland, giving them a versatile 2-way wing. Those moves, under the guidance of coach Rudy Tomjanovich, helped the Rockets win their first 15 games that season.

Overall they won 58 games en-route to the Midwest title (that’s what the division was called in those days) and were 2nd in the West. Even though they looked like championship material and were led by that seasons MVP and Defensive Player of the Year, Hakeem Olajuwon, they were overlooked by everyone.

The focus was on the Seattle Supersonics coming out of the West, sporting the leagues best record, and considering this was the post Michael Jordan era, the chip was up for grabs. We all know how that season turned out as the Rockets proved their championship mettle going from Choke City to Clutch City, the latter moniker that still defines the Rockets in Houston, by winning the first championship in Houston team sports history.

Prelude to Greatest Championship run ever
The 1994-1995 season for the Houston Rockets was to serve as validation for the 1993-1994 team that won the title the year before. In defense of their first title they once again got off to a fast start to begin a season, winning the first 9 games. Despite the early season success, the struggle to find the consistency and championship chemistry that defined their run the previous season was apparent. A bold move was necessary in an attempt to collate a 2nd title.

When the Rockets traded Otis Thorpe for Clyde Drexler at the trade deadline that season, the bold move necessity was qualified. Although most pundits were against the idea considering OT’s role on the ’94 team and how big/little trades were frowned upon in that era, pairing Hakeem and Clyde was genius.

It was clear the Rockets needed a perimeter player that could consistently attack the rim and get to the line to balance Hakeems overall dominance, and even with Clydes advancing age (he was 31 during the season) he was still a top 20 player in the league. The Drexler deal didn’t produce immediate results as the Houston Rockets finished .500 after they acquired “the Glyde”; and even with the middling end to their 47 win regular season, the Rockets were using that time to gear up for the greatest championship run to date.

Greatest Championship run ever Bonafides
When the ’95 playoffs began, the 6th seeded Rockets were a complete afterthought; intriguing and new look with Clyde, but one nonetheless. They began with the Karl Malone, John Stockton and the 3rd seed Utah Jazz. That series went to a 5th and deciding game when the acquisition of Clyde Drexler came to the fore. He led Houston to victory, taking over the 4th quarter and eliminating the 60 win Jazz. That series win incited championship belief for all who bled Rockets red.

The second round was a rematch with Charles Barkley‘s Phoenix Suns who the Rockets laid waste in 7 the previous season by coming back from getting blowed out on their home floor the first 2 games. They got down 3-1 in the rematch but fought their way back culminating with Elie hitting the corner 3 “Kiss of Death” shot that defined their title run to date. Gone were the 59 win Suns, again in 7.

The Western Conference Finals was a PHD thesis statement on why Hakeem Olajuwon was the greatest big man of his era and the best player in the league; I believe 3 years running to that point. The Houston Rockets I-10 rival, David Robinson and the San Antonio Spurs, were all that stood in the way for a return to the Finals. Behind an all-time performance in a close out game by the “Dream” the Rockets eliminated the 62 win Spurs in 6 games; validating Hakeem and the Rockets as the Wests best.

In the Finals the Rockets faced the Eastern Conference Champion Orlando Magic. This team had two young superstars in Shaquille O’Neal and Penny Hardaway and was supposed to be the next great dynasty. They won 57 games that season, just defeated an out of retirement Michael Jordan led Chicago Bulls team in the ECF and were everyone’s pick to win the NBA Championship. Kenny Smith‘s then finals record seven 3’s and Nick Anderson choking away 4 free throws in an attempt seal a win for the Magic in Game 1, Sam Cassell‘s 31 point effort off the bench in Game 2, and Big Shot Bob’s (Robert Horry for the uninitiated) game deciding 3 in Game 3, were what the Rockets needed to take those games and go on to sweep the Orlando Magic for their 2nd consecutive title. The Houston Rockets were champions again.

Of the 73 champions in NBA history, there is only one that claimed the title via the 6th seed, the ’94-’95 Houston Rockets. They beat in succession the 60 win Utah Jazz, the 59 win Phoenix Suns, the 62 win San Antonio Spurs and the 57 win Orlando Magic; all without home court advantage. No championship team in NBA history has beaten 4 teams with that collective win total as the Rockets did in their ’95 championship march.

Their improbable run is littered with the destruction of the games greatest stars and the best teams in the league that year. Theirs is the greatest championship title run of all time. No other NBA title run in history compares. In the immortal words of should be Hall of Famer Rudy Tomjanovich, “Never underestimate the heart of a Champion”.

https://spacecityscoop.com/2019/08/10/1994-95-houston-rockets-greatest-nba-championship-ever/​

 

[Rastapopoulos]

That the Dame era for the Blazers was a lot like the Mitch Richmond era for the Kings.

 

[andalusian]

That the Dame era for the Blazers was a lot like the Mitch Richmond era for the Kings.

I think SAC only made the playoffs once in Richmond's 8? years there, so that's not exactly right.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I think SAC only made the playoffs once in Richmond's 8? years there, so that's not exactly right.

I meant in terms of being followed by a golden age for the franchise!

 

[andalusian]

I meant in terms of being followed by a golden age for the franchise!

Hopefully, for sure.

 

[wizenheimer]

Dame is fucking amazing. Pure pleasure to watch. Bored? Really? Dame polished a lot of turd rosters for the Blazers and drug them to the playoffs.

yep

the revisionist bullshit about Dame making the Blazers boring can go fuck itself

 

[Natebishop3]

Correct. I've never advocated against drafting well; very much the opposite.

Whaaaaaaat?

When people talk about building through the draft, they're not talking about drafting well. They're talking about how you can't typically pull All-NBA talent unless you're at the top of the draft. So either you have to draft them yourself or you have to trade for them.

Dame - 6th pick
LMA - 2nd pick (trade)
Roy - 6th pick (trade)
Sheed - 4th pick (trade)
Steve Smith - 5th pick (trade)
JR Rider - 5th pick (trade)

Clyde was only the 14th pick, which was kinda surprising. But if you look at the best players to put on the uniform, most of them were high lottery picks. So either you need to draft em, trade for em, or sign em. Our best chance at adding that caliber player is getting them in the draft ourselves.

 

[Tince]

Well it should be built in to be skeptical of the change. I'm more in that camp too..

But I don't begrudge people for finally feeling optimism after the doldrums the past 5 years have brought.

I think it's fair to be both skeptical and excited.

I agree and I don't begrudge people for feeling optimistic. I'm speaking more of the folks whom appear to be confident that getting rid of Dame for two unproven young players is a no-brainer direction for improvement.

I continue to say there is a path where it works out better, so I'm not ruling out the possibility myself.

 

[julius]

Really?

Yes, really. I root for the Blazers, and their players. Once they leave Portland (the players, and if ever the Blazers themselves), I don't root for them.

 

[Tince]

Whaaaaaaat?

When people talk about building through the draft, they're not talking about drafting well. They're talking about how you can't typically pull All-NBA talent unless you're at the top of the draft. So either you have to draft them yourself or you have to trade for them.

Dame - 6th pick
LMA - 2nd pick (trade)
Roy - 6th pick (trade)
Sheed - 4th pick (trade)
Steve Smith - 5th pick (trade)
JR Rider - 5th pick (trade)

Clyde was only the 14th pick, which was kinda surprising. But if you look at the best players to put on the uniform, most of them were high lottery picks. So either you need to draft em, trade for em, or sign em. Our best chance at adding that caliber player is getting them in the draft ourselves.

I'm not sure what the list you provided proves. Didn't many people here want most, if not all of these players (including Dame now) to be traded to make room for the potential of future top 6 picks because the previous top 6 players weren't good enough to lead Portland to a championship?

Half the people you listed weren't even drafted by Portland. I know Olshey loved trading for previous lottery picks, but again, I'm not sure what we're supposed to take from that.

 

[andalusian]

yep

the revisionist bullshit about Dame making the Blazers boring can go fuck itself

What the f is revisionist about how people feel?

Last year was the first time in the last 4 or 5 years I got NBA league pass, because I was excited to see Sharpe. Fact.

The very idea that people can not find a style of play boring even if the player that it is built around is excellent is ridiculous.

You like to watch it rinse and repeat 70 times a year, great, but to think that others can't find it boring?

Formula 1 is exciting this year only for 2nd place fights. Verstappen and red bull are in a league of their own, but I certainly do not tune in to see that.