Regardless of faith: do you believe the bible is the word of god?

[magnifier661]

[video=youtube;Wj1a9ZeKHU0]

 

[crowTrobot]

I would like for you to answer his "scientific analogy" on DNA being a program and can only be created by a living organism.

he's making an assertion based on his intuition. there's no science involved.

 

[magnifier661]

he's making an assertion based on his intuition. there's no science involved.

Wow that is a complete straw man. Everything in science must have theory and then gather as much data to either prove or disprove that theory. So the logical question; since so far has been proven that DNA must require life to recreate "the data", somehow appear out of nowhere? That is a very scientific theory. Why aren't you answering this question? What is the theory that explains this? Any scientist will openly agree I that this is "scientific" question. Has nothing to do with my "Hebrew God".

Science has only proven that DNA is made by a living organism. Also DNA is a program. If its a program, then who or what programmed it? Do you agree a computer cant program itself? Because even computers that program other computers were programmed by man.

 

[JETBlack]

Sorry Mags but nowhere does it say Apostles and Prophets shall be done away with forever henceforth. Nowhere does Christ say that his servants will cease to be and his words to men will cease. There are many people who want to refute the divinity of Jesus but the Book of Mormon is a 2nd witness that is impossible to misunderstand. Jesus was resurrected as said in the Bible and he is everything he said he is, the very son of God. It is easy to find fault with one witness, it much more difficult with two. Why should the Church of Christ be different now then it was when He was on the Earth?

 

[magnifier661]

We don't need Apostles anymore? Where in the bible is this said?

Yes, it defines the work of an Apostle as establishing the Faith of Jesus Christ.

Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Ephesians 2:19-22

Since "Christianity" has already been established; there is no need for Apostles. Also, an Apostle must bear witness to Jesus Christ:

And Jesus said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day… And ye are witnesses of these things.

Luke 24:46-48

and

And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

Acts 4:33

Last time I checked, the mormon faith was only in 19th century. I wasn't aware that Christ resurected then.

Also, Jesus must hand pick the apostle:

nd when it was day, he [JESUS] called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;

Luke 6:13

So here is my summary of why there are no apostles today.

1.) Apostles served as a foundation for the early church.

2.) They must have seen Jesus after his resurection.

3.) Apostles must be hand picked by Jesus.

4.) Must have miracle working power to be an apostle.

I figured to copy and paste, because this response to you was buried in this thread. As you can see, the Bible does say it as I quoted. Are you arguing that the scripture I posted is wrong? Or that I misinterpreted it?

 

[magnifier661]

And you have a current 12 apostles in the church today right? So Jesus comes down from Heaven and hand picks twelve of you guys? So when one apostle dies, Jesus comes down again and picks another?

 

[crowTrobot]

Wow that is a complete straw man.

nope. he repeatedly says things such as - i can look at DNA and just "know" it couldn't have evolved because it's too complex, or because it looks designed etc. obviously he's appealing to intuition and not making any evidence based arguments. scientists have already proven evolution can build complexity in counterintuitive ways, so they have no reason to lend any weight to anyone's intuition in this case.

So the logical question; since so far has been proven that DNA must require life to recreate "the data", somehow appear out of nowhere? That is a very scientific theory. Why aren't you answering this question? What is the theory that explains this? Any scientist will openly agree I that this is "scientific" question.

scientists don't agree that DNA must have appeared out of nowhere, so they would reject the question.

Has nothing to do with my "Hebrew God".

that's humorous.

Science has only proven that DNA is made by a living organism. Also DNA is a program. If its a program, then who or what programmed it? Do you agree a computer cant program itself? Because even computers that program other computers were programmed by man.

question begging. DNA is not a program in the sense you mean.

 

[Masbee]

This is an interesting debate on evolution. At the 16 minute mark is the actual debate. Before they talked about their credentials, or "get to know the debaters" segment.

[video=youtube;wr6uvUNJLww]

That is not a debate.

THERE IS NO DEBATE. the fact is "creationism" is total fucking crap. The sooner you realize you have been had, the sooner you can start your searches for real truth.

 

[tlongII]

I find it odd that some people still don't accept evolution. The evidence supporting the theory is overwhelming imo.

 

[magnifier661]

nope. he repeatedly says things such as - i can look at DNA and just "know" it couldn't have evolved because it's too complex, or because it looks designed etc. obviously he's appealing to intuition and not making any evidence based arguments. scientists have already proven evolution can build complexity in counterintuitive ways, so they have no reason to lend any weight to anyone's intuition in this case.

And you have completely avoided my question entirely. His question; since I guess you missed it, or maybe didn't understand the question was "If DNA must be derived from a living organism, and science has yet to prove this DNA, or "code" cannot synthetically "without a living organism"; how can you explain the origin of life?"

scientists don't agree that DNA must have appeared out of nowhere, so they would reject the question.

Wait what? woah? did you just say scientists don't agree that DNA came out of nowhere? So what do they think or how do they theorize the origin of DNA? It doesn't have to be fact. Just give me the scientific explaination on how it came to be.

that's humorous.

It really is. Because I am asking you scientific questions and you have been avoiding every one. Then you jump on the religious statements I made; because it's based upon faith. I asked you about the mathmatical improbability of life being able to evolve to complex orgamism in the 2.7 billion years; based by the "simplest organism genome" to, let's say a human with millions of different probabilities and millions of different organisms. Instead you replied that this was taken out of context. Then I simplified it down by 1,000% and asked the same question again with no response.

You have been avoiding the scientific questions, you are labeling me as some conspiracy theorist; when I am trying to ask you questions on your "Faith" or "Logic" if that makes you feel better.

I have given you 3 billion years to prove evolution. I have even given you "the chance that DNA can exist without life", and still you avoid the mathmatical improbability of 1 single cell organism, evolving into millions of organisms, evolving into millions of complex organsims, in less than 2.7 billion years.

question begging. DNA is not a program in the sense you mean.

Deoxyribonucleic acid (i/diˌɒksiˌraɪbɵ.njuːˌkleɪ.ɨk ˈæsɪd/; DNA) is a nucleic acid containing the genetic instructions used in the development and functioning of all known living organisms (with the exception of RNA viruses). The DNA segments carrying this genetic information are called genes. Likewise, other DNA sequences have structural purposes, or are involved in regulating the use of this genetic information. Along with RNA and proteins, DNA is one of the three major macromolecules that are essential for all known forms of life.

This is a code (program), and this has been adopted by every leading biologist on the planet. So are you trying to deny genes are not "codes"?


It amazes me that the leading Aethiest spokesperson "Dawkins" openly admitted that life on this planet could arguably be made by "intelligent design"

[video=youtube;Wj1a9ZeKHU0]

Please explain this?

 

[magnifier661]

That is not a debate.

THERE IS NO DEBATE. the fact is "creationism" is total fucking crap. The sooner you realize you have been had, the sooner you can start your searches for real truth.

LOL, this is hilarious. I have asked serious "scientific questions" and all i get in return is "No they aren't scientific" You guys are fucking crazy.... LMAO! Serious discussion fellas. No need to go playground on the topic.

 

[JETBlack]

Nope, in fact a explanation for existence without a God relies on the most unlikely of events occurring over and over and over. Everything works in perfect order and all this is based on random chance. In fact, the existence of laws, patterns and order in the universe is the only reason science can exist. Science is based on assumptions, everything we see on this earth also works the same way throughout the universe. Science is only the observation of the works of God. What is more likely? An organized, orderly and consistent universe coming from a sole creator or the same organized, orderly and consistent universe arising from pure chance with beginnings we can't explain?

 

[MadeFromDust]

That is not a debate.

THERE IS NO DEBATE. the fact is "creationism" is total fucking crap. The sooner you realize you have been had, the sooner you can start your searches for real truth.

I'm right because I said so!

 

[magnifier661]

I am Glad that there have been all this "Creation" debate. Last night, my fiancé was led to the Lord. She said that reading the testimonies from many of the Christians in here and the debate between evolution and creation has really made her think. She asked me to purchase a Bible for her last week and read it diligently. Then last night she asked me how she can truly know how to have a relationship with the Lord. She found Jesus at 1:45 am this morning.

Thank all of you for being witness to her, even the ones that do not believe in God. You have all helped to lead my fiancé to the Lord.

 

[magnifier661]

I find it odd that some people still don't accept evolution. The evidence supporting the theory is overwhelming imo.

I like your angle and respect your opinion. There are some of us that disagree with evolution and I believe have a good argument. Regardless of what you truly believe; I guess we must agree to disagree? Hopefully you hold that same respect for me.

 

[ABM]

I am Glad that there have been all this "Creation" debate. Last night, my fiancé was led to the Lord. She said that reading the testimonies from many of the Christians in here and the debate between evolution and creation has really made her think. She asked me to purchase a Bible for her last week and read it diligently. Then last night she asked me how she can truly know how to have a relationship with the Lord. She found Jesus at 1:45 am this morning.

Thank all of you for being witness to her, even the ones that do not believe in God. You have all helped to lead my fiancé to the Lord.

Oh, man...that's AWESOME, Mags!! Please keep me posted on her growth in the Lord! There are many, many study materials for new believers. Hopefully, too, she'll find a Christian sister in Christ that can help encourage her.

 

[crowTrobot]

And you have completely avoided my question entirely. His question; since I guess you missed it, or maybe didn't understand the question was "If DNA must be derived from a living organism, and science has yet to prove this DNA, or "code" cannot synthetically "without a living organism"; how can you explain the origin of life?"

that wasn't coherent, but note that scientists don't claim to know how abiogenesis happened. the issue here is creationists are saying it could NOT have happened naturally. they are the ones making a claim. the burden of proof is on them.

Wait what? woah? did you just say scientists don't agree that DNA came out of nowhere? So what do they think or how do they theorize the origin of DNA? It doesn't have to be fact. Just give me the scientific explaination on how it came to be.

scientists don't know or claim to know. their base assumption is that there most likely is a naturalistic explanation for abiogenesis that they should be looking for, because it would logically follow from what they know about evolution. what they don't agree with is that the complexity of DNA is necessarily a barrior to any possible naturalistic explanation. there is no evidence for that whatsoever. it's just an assertion creationists constantly make without supporting it scientifically - they only appeal to it as a matter of human intuition, as in the video.

It really is.

the anti-scientific propaganda you are buying into wouldn't exist if people like you didn't want to believe in a literal interpretation of genesis. the fact that there is any debate at all over ID vs evolution is intimately tied to religion.

I have given you 3 billion years to prove evolution. I have even given you "the chance that DNA can exist without life", and still you avoid the mathmatical improbability of 1 single cell organism, evolving into millions of organisms, evolving into millions of complex organsims, in less than 2.7 billion years.

i'm not avoiding anything. as noted scientists would reject your or anyone else's ability to calculate odds for abiogenesis. to even start to do that you would first have to know how it in reality happened, and the number of trials available (which would include knowing the size of the universe). this information is not available. nobody is able to calculate odds at all. for all we know the natural emergence of DNA-like systems could be inevitable.

This is a code (program), and this has been adopted by every leading biologist on the planet. So are you trying to deny genes are not "codes"?

just because DNA is a code does not make it necessarily 'programmed' in any sense that parallels a computer program.

It amazes me that the leading Aethiest spokesperson "Dawkins" openly admitted that life on this planet could arguably be made by "intelligent design"

you will have a tough time finding any atheist that will say it's not at least a remote possibility that life was designed. the intellectual position is "i don't know how it happened". creationists are the only ones who are claiming to know.

 

[magnifier661]

Oh, man...that's AWESOME, Mags!! Please keep me posted on her growth in the Lord! There are many, many study materials for new believers. Hopefully, too, she'll find a Christian sister in Christ that can help encourage her.

Yeah it's great news. And what makes this even greater was how God worked as a witness to her. You and many other Christians in this forum made her realize the passion, love and faith.

I can't remember who posted the link of that young man with the "spoken word"; but that really hit home for her. She wanted me to thank those that apposed the idea of "Creation" because their thoughts and input swayed her from the idea there is no God. Funny how things work out.

 

[magnifier661]

you will have a tough time finding any atheist that will say it's not at least a remote possibility that life was designed. the intellectual position is "i don't know how it happened". creationists are the only ones who are claiming to know.

Well that's good to know. At least Creationists and Aethiests can agree that there was an "intelligent design". By whom can be another debate.

Thanks again for your debates on "Creation". It helped lead my financé to the Lord. I can't thank you enough.

 

[MadeFromDust]

I am Glad that there have been all this "Creation" debate. Last night, my fiancé was led to the Lord. She said that reading the testimonies from many of the Christians in here and the debate between evolution and creation has really made her think. She asked me to purchase a Bible for her last week and read it diligently. Then last night she asked me how she can truly know how to have a relationship with the Lord. She found Jesus at 1:45 am this morning.

Thank all of you for being witness to her, even the ones that do not believe in God. You have all helped to lead my fiancé to the Lord.

WOW - So glad to hear it Mags! Very happy for her. Knowing the Lord Jesus Christ and the sacrifice He made for us is the most important thing you can do in this life. I will have both you and her in my prayers and may God rain down His blessings upon you both.

 

[crowTrobot]

Everything works in perfect order and all this is based on random chance.

evolution certainly is not based on random chance. in fact it's exactly the opposite. for all we know the natural laws of the universe might not be random either.

just because there is order to the universe does not mean there is an intelligence responsible. that's just a huge anthropocentric assumption on your part.

 

[tlongII]

I like your angle and respect your opinion. There are some of us that disagree with evolution and I believe have a good argument. Regardless of what you truly believe; I guess we must agree to disagree? Hopefully you hold that same respect for me.

You're welcome to believe whatever you wish. I respect your beliefs.

 

[magnifier661]

WOW - So glad to hear it Mags! Very happy for her. Knowing the Lord Jesus Christ and the sacrifice He made for us the most important thing you can do in this life. I will have both you and her in my prayers and may God rain down His blessings upon you both.

Thank you brother! Yeah it's amazing how many of my friends on facebook at so happy. She had so many sisters asking her if she wants to study with them. It's an amazing testimony because I never forced anything on her. I thought it was strange that she kept asking questions about God, the Bible and Jesus. I just kept answering her questions and never asked why. When she read the Bible, every night she would ask me my opinions on the interpretations. This went on for about a week until last night. I went to bed with her about 11:00pm. We talked about God until about 1:30am; then she was silent for about 10 minutes. I felt a pull to ask her a simple question. "Honey, do you want to learn how to accept Jesus as your savior?" She cried and answered "Yes I do!" Very moving...

For me, this proves the Holy Spirit works in very mysterious ways. She followed a lot of the discussions in this forum about "Creation". In fact, she loved reading it. She told me that the arguments that posters that didn't believe in God made her doubt evolution. Was it the Holy Spirit working? I think so...

Oops P.S. I forgot to tell you that she felt like a weight was lifted off her body. She said that her body was tingling and was that normal. I replied "With God, everything is normal!"

 

[crowTrobot]

Thanks again for your debates on "Creation". It helped lead my financé to the Lord. I can't thank you enough.

marrying a mensa member just like yourself i see.

 

[ABM]

just because there is order to the universe does not mean there is an intelligence responsible.

Nor does it necessarily mean there is not an intelligence responsible, either.

 

[tlongII]

marrying a mensa member just like yourself i see.

Be nice!

 

[magnifier661]

marrying a mensa member just like yourself i see.

What is that supposed to mean? I planned on marrying her regardless of her Faith. And I never forced my beliefs on her. She made this decision all by herself. But thank you nonetheless. Without you, it may have been years, months or never.

 

[MadeFromDust]

Thank you brother! Yeah it's amazing how many of my friends on facebook at so happy. She had so many sisters asking her if she wants to study with them. It's an amazing testimony because I never forced anything on her. I thought it was strange that she kept asking questions about God, the Bible and Jesus. I just kept answering her questions and never asked why. When she read the Bible, every night she would ask me my opinions on the interpretations. This went on for about a week until last night. I went to bed with her about 11:00pm. We talked about God until about 1:30am; then she was silent for about 10 minutes. I felt a pull to ask her a simple question. "Honey, do you want to learn how to accept Jesus as your savior?" She cried and answered "Yes I do!" Very moving...

For me, this proves the Holy Spirit works in very mysterious ways. She followed a lot of the discussions in this forum about "Creation". In fact, she loved reading it. She told me that the arguments that posters that didn't believe in God made her doubt evolution. Was it the Holy Spirit working? I think so...

Oops P.S. I forgot to tell you that she felt like a weight was lifted off her body. She said that her body was tingling and was that normal. I replied "With God, everything is normal!"

That is so awesome! My heart is burning in my chest right now, lol. I absolutely LOVE hearing people come to knowledge of the Lord. May God guide her always, and again, you and her will be in my prayers. Praise the Lord!

 

[magnifier661]

Be nice!

No I'm glad he made that comment. Kinda proves his intentions. Instead of being happy for someone that found peace; he would rather make fun of it publicly.

 

[ABM]

No I'm glad he made that comment. Kinda proves his intentions. Instead of being happy for someone that found peace; he would rather make fun of it publicly.

Holy Crap! Is that HCP in the far right picture of your sig?!