Retool or rebuild

[PtldPlatypus]

Supposedly, Spurs are potentially interested in taking Simmons in a Dame-to-BRK deal. Not exactly sure what that would look like.

https://heavy.com/sports/brooklyn-n...el-nets-trade-rumors-after-latest-appearance/

 

[wizenheimer]

He's not a top-10 player.

* Dame was 8th in PER (ahead of Durant, Curry, Lebron, Tatum, and Morant
* he was 5th among perimeter players in TS%
* he was 9th in winshares/48 (and higher if adjusted for team wins)
* he was 10th in BPM (and again, would be higher if adjusted for team wins)

like I said, top-10ish

 

[wizenheimer]

Supposedly, Spurs are potentially interested in taking Simmons in a Dame-to-BRK deal. Not exactly sure what that would look like.

https://heavy.com/sports/brooklyn-n...el-nets-trade-rumors-after-latest-appearance/

where did you read the Spurs are interested in Simmons? Wasn't in that article, which by the way, mostly talked about how the Nets has shitty trade leverage especially if they try to attach Simmons

ok.....found it on the same website:

https://heavy.com/sports/brooklyn-nets/ben-simmons-interest-spurs-blockbuster-trade/

and wouldn't you just know it: the Spurs appear to be only interested because they imagine themselves getting picks to take on Simmons....LOL

 

[PtldPlatypus]

where did you read the Spurs are interested in Simmons? Wasn't in that article, which by the way, mostly talked about how the Nets has shitty trade leverage especially if they try to attach Simmons

My bad--wrong link.

https://heavy.com/sports/brooklyn-nets/ben-simmons-interest-spurs-blockbuster-trade/

 

[wizenheimer]

My bad--wrong link.

https://heavy.com/sports/brooklyn-nets/ben-simmons-interest-spurs-blockbuster-trade/

yeah, I found it at that website and the germane part of the article is this:



so, some of the picks some are fantasizing coming to Portland would have to go to the Spurs

 

[wizenheimer]

you guys and this Simmons-for-Dame trade idea are like the Wright Brothers if they tried to fly while hungover and chugging hair of the dog. The plane keeps wobbling down the runway, never getting airborne, then nose-diving into the ground

 

[TBpup]

Dame just came off his best season ever.....and Portland is slotted at the #5 Lottery spot. Sadly, his best ever wasn't enough to propel the team to a position where they weren't better off tanking, so they shut it down. So, what all would need to be added to Dame at near his best level ever that gets the Blazers from 'Play-In' level to legit contender level? Is it even possible? If not, I'll consider trades to move on to the next era of possibilities. There are no guarantees, but there haven't been close to guarantees other than mediocrity for 2 decades.

Many Blazer fans would just like some legitimate hope or even the possibility of that hope.

 

[Whyachi]

you guys and this Simmons-for-Dame trade idea are like the Wright Brothers if they tried to fly while hungover and chugging hair of the dog. The plane keeps wobbling down the runway, never getting airborne, then nose-diving into the ground

That was the first 15 attempts

 

[tykendo]

View attachment 55662
View attachment 55663

* Dame was 8th in PER (ahead of Durant, Curry, Lebron, Tatum, and Morant
* he was 5th among perimeter players in TS%
* he was 9th in winshares/48 (and higher if adjusted for team wins)
* he was 10th in BPM (and again, would be higher if adjusted for team wins)

like I said, top-10ish

Great post. Facts are facts. Dame detractors like to throw out BS. Almost like Q wackos.

 

[tykendo]

yeah, I found it at that website and the germane part of the article is this:

View attachment 55664

so, some of the picks some are fantasizing coming to Portland would have to go to the Spurs

I have an interest in winning the Lottery. Most likely , the same chances a trade like that happening has.

 

[e_blazer]

Dame just came off his best season ever.....and Portland is slotted at the #5 Lottery spot.

That's a true statement, but I think you'd be overstating your case if you're saying that the Blazers couldn't do better than the 5th seed despite Dame's best season. He didn't play the last 10 games of the season, when the Blazers went full tank mode, and their record during that stretch was 1-9. (Curse that accidental stupid win over the T'Wolves).

I'd still say that the Blazers likely would have made the playoffs if they hadn't had so many injuries and if Cronin hadn't been ambivalent about doing so. Joe did zilch to bolster the pathetically weak bench, never adding another C when he easily could have. Dumping Hart for young guys and a pick spoke of a GM looking to next season rather than trying to win this season. I guess I'd just sum it up as Dame having an extraordinarily good year, in part because of the lack of anyone else who could try to push the team to win (and clearly because he's a great player), and primarily a GM who wanted the assets gained from tanking in order to try to do a major roster retrofit this summer. Joe's got his assets and he'd better perform or hit the pavement.

 

[Sean.ivity]

 

[blazerfan11]

That's a true statement, but I think you'd be overstating your case if you're saying that the Blazers couldn't do better than the 5th seed despite Dame's best season. He didn't play the last 10 games of the season, when the Blazers went full tank mode, and their record during that stretch was 1-9. (Curse that accidental stupid win over the T'Wolves).

I'd still say that the Blazers likely would have made the playoffs if they hadn't had so many injuries and if Cronin hadn't been ambivalent about doing so. Joe did zilch to bolster the pathetically weak bench, never adding another C when he easily could have. Dumping Hart for young guys and a pick spoke of a GM looking to next season rather than trying to win this season. I guess I'd just sum it up as Dame having an extraordinarily good year, in part because of the lack of anyone else who could try to push the team to win (and clearly because he's a great player), and primarily a GM who wanted the assets gained from tanking in order to try to do a major roster retrofit this summer. Joe's got his assets and he'd better perform or hit the pavement.

Even without a bench the Blazers were in the playoff race when Hart was traded.

 

[e_blazer]

Even without a bench the Blazers were in the playoff race when Hart was traded.

View attachment 55669

Exactly. Cronin didn’t announce it for obvious reasons, and Dame wouldn’t admit to it because he’s such a fierce competitor, but the Blazers threw in the towel on this season when the Hart trade went down. The assets they got back for a player who was a key and experienced part of the rotation, were all future oriented.

 

[TBpup]

That's a true statement, but I think you'd be overstating your case if you're saying that the Blazers couldn't do better than the 5th seed despite Dame's best season. He didn't play the last 10 games of the season, when the Blazers went full tank mode, and their record during that stretch was 1-9. (Curse that accidental stupid win over the T'Wolves).

I'd still say that the Blazers likely would have made the playoffs if they hadn't had so many injuries and if Cronin hadn't been ambivalent about doing so. Joe did zilch to bolster the pathetically weak bench, never adding another C when he easily could have. Dumping Hart for young guys and a pick spoke of a GM looking to next season rather than trying to win this season. I guess I'd just sum it up as Dame having an extraordinarily good year, in part because of the lack of anyone else who could try to push the team to win (and clearly because he's a great player), and primarily a GM who wanted the assets gained from tanking in order to try to do a major roster retrofit this summer. Joe's got his assets and he'd better perform or hit the pavement.

The very next sentence was, "Sadly, his best ever wasn't enough to propel the team to a position where they weren't better off tanking, so they shut it down."

Dame was individually amazing, but it didn't translate into wins. In the last 4 seasons, the Blazers were sub .500 in 3 of those seasons. Overall in those seasons, they were 137-173. It's not a Dame offensive production thing......but it also hasn't been a winning thing. It's tough when your star isn't very good at defense. Then when you pair him with another perimeter, first line of defense player that also doesn't play defense, it is a recipe for disaster. Unfortunately, that has been almost all of Dame's career outside of Matthews.

I want Dame to win a title. I don't see the assets here to make enough moves to put enough pieces around him to do that. So to me, that means, move on to the next chapter and do what gives the franchise the best chance of being a legit contender and try again. And hopefully, he gets sent to a place like Clyde where he can have the chance to win a title.

 

[STOMP]

Great post. Facts are facts. Dame detractors like to throw out BS. Almost like Q wackos.

The Trailblazers have absolutely sucked the last 2 seasons and Dame is on the tail end of a tremendous career. Facts are facts. Does the franchise accept the reality of how far away from truly competing they are and move him to a situation he can potentially contend for a title and get a proper rebuild on or do they pander to the silly fanboys who fantasize it can happen in Portland before his wheels fall off by trading away assets for some retreads that get them bounced early in the playoffs?

STOMP

 

[illmatic99]

Dame just came off his best season ever.....and Portland is slotted at the #5 Lottery spot. Sadly, his best ever wasn't enough to propel the team to a position where they weren't better off tanking, so they shut it down. So, what all would need to be added to Dame at near his best level ever that gets the Blazers from 'Play-In' level to legit contender level? Is it even possible? If not, I'll consider trades to move on to the next era of possibilities. There are no guarantees, but there haven't been close to guarantees other than mediocrity for 2 decades.

Many Blazer fans would just like some legitimate hope or even the possibility of that hope.

Again i have to point this out because people are running with this narrative that Dame's best isnt good enough.

At the trade deadline, we were 2 games ahead of the Lakers who finished 7th. We were also 1 game behind GS who finished 5th. Both teams are looking like they might advance to round 2.

We, otoh, deliberately made a choice to pivot towards a tank at the deadline. Had we not gotten younger and instead plugged our hole at Center and added veteran depth on the bench, we would most likely have ended up 7th or 8th. We made the choice that tanking is a better option.

This has nothing to do with Dame not being enough to compete. Would people say the same about Steph or Lebron? People like to forget that we knowingly made our team worse with our deadline moves.

Hell what then do you say about Luka/Kyrie who got a star and ended up even worse?

 

[illmatic99]

Supposedly, Spurs are potentially interested in taking Simmons in a Dame-to-BRK deal. Not exactly sure what that would look like.

https://heavy.com/sports/brooklyn-n...el-nets-trade-rumors-after-latest-appearance/

This Dame to BK stuff has been squashed already. They simply don't have enough. Ben is a negative asset.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Brooklyn
Dame

SA
Simmons

PDX
Dinwiddie
Claxton
Sochan
McDermot
Multiple picks works salary wise

Yuck!!

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Brooklyn
Dame

SA
Simmons

PDX
Dinwiddie
Claxton
Sochan
McDermot
Multiple picks works salary wise

Yuck!!

Dinwiddie/Claxton/Sochan/picks is a decent return for Dame. However, I don't see SA giving up Sochan for the privilege of taking on Simmons.

 

[TBpup]

This has nothing to do with Dame not being enough to compete. Would people say the same about Steph or Lebron? People like to forget that we knowingly made our team worse with our deadline moves.

Please don't compare Dame with Steph/LeBron who have 8 NBA titles between them. We all love Dame, but there has to be some reality to it as well. 137-173 in the last 4 years. So no, people wouldn't say that about Steph or LeBron, but they would have very good historical reason not to. Dame has been an incredible offensive player for the Blazers, but he is not on that level. Come on, you're better than that.

 

[e_blazer]

Please don't compare Dame with Steph/LeBron who have 8 NBA titles between them. We all love Dame, but there has to be some reality to it as well. 137-173 in the last 4 years. So no, people wouldn't say that about Steph or LeBron, but they would have very good historical reason not to. Dame has been an incredible offensive player for the Blazers, but he is not on that level. Come on, you're better than that.

The titles don’t mean much given that basketball is a team game and Dame has never been on a team as stacked as the Warriors or the multiple teams that LeBron has chosen to play for. LeBron is obviously on a different level and has been since coming into the league as the chosen one. Steph is a better pure shooter than Dame, but the talent disparity isn’t so great that comparisons are inappropriate. I’d say that Dame on the Warriors would have earned similar ring counts as Steph, while Steph on the Blazers would still be searching for a ring.

 

[illmatic99]

Please don't compare Dame with Steph/LeBron who have 8 NBA titles between them. We all love Dame, but there has to be some reality to it as well. 137-173 in the last 4 years. So no, people wouldn't say that about Steph or LeBron, but they would have very good historical reason not to. Dame has been an incredible offensive player for the Blazers, but he is not on that level. Come on, you're better than that.

Dame had a better individual season than both this year but ok. Where did i compare them over their careers?

 

[andalusian]

Saying teams already have a point guard and can't use Dame is like saying a team already has a power forward and can't use Giannis.

Or saying the team already has Clyde so they don't draft MJ

 

[Mediocre Man]

Saying teams already have a point guard and can't use Dame is like saying a team already has a power forward and can't use Giannis.

No it’s not

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Suppose you were told that it has to be retool, that rebuild isn't even an option. What would you think of something like this:

View attachment 55462

Main problem with this is that Grant is a FA, so his salary would change (but it can go up significantly and the numbers would work) but I have a feeling that you can't sign-and-trade somebody along with other players?

Anyway, the core of the trade is Anfernee for Butler. There's literally a DECADE difference in age. But Butler is still probably younger than Chris Paul was when the Suns traded for him, right? And he's literally better than Anfernee will ever be. That's obviously true in terms of defense, but he can also just decide to take over a game offensively and do it, and he is a culture-changer in that he will not accept losing (which is why I think he might agitate for a trade from Miami, who seem to be in a bad way this year).

The question is, would Miami want Simons? If they pair him with Herro that's got to be the worst-defending backcourt, certainly in their history and probably in the NBA. They would have to just outscore teams. But they've got a very adaptable coach... (Also, the sweetener for them is that they unload Robinson.)

There was never much chance of this happening, but the small chance that there was has evaporated. Say what you will about the Heat, but they show up once the playoffs start... (Except for that weird first play-in loss to Atlanta...)