Sam Amico: Blazers have talked to Sixers about Noel

[BonesJones]

It's not the minutes that's noteworthy, it's the shots. For example, if Crabbe was in Brooklyn, he would be the teams primary perimeter option, shooting at will, with specific plays run just for him. Same thing with Barton in Denver. His role is a lot different than Crabbes. The minutes might be comparable, but Barton has a lot more freedom and gets more shots as well.

Thing is, Barton can create his own shot, while Crabbe can't. That plays a role in how many shots they take, respectively.

 

[Scalma]

Thing is, Barton can create his own shot, while Crabbe can't. That plays a role in how many shots they take, respectively.

I've heard that Crabbe can't create his own shot, but I don't agree with it. Hes not a ball handler, but he's added a pretty effective dribble pull-up to his game. He works well off screens with the ball.

And that's assuming he's hit his ceiling, which I don't think he has. He's never going to be a CJ but there's no reason he can't continue to add to his arsenal.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Sorry y'all hate Crabbe. Or wait, is it because Turner has improved so you can't shit on him anymore? Who's next after Crabbe starts shooting well again?

This board is going to have a MELTDOWN if (when) another team takes on Crabbes contract.

If Crabbe starts shooting well again, we'll all be focused on Meyers. Or we won't be complaining at all, because we'll be playing .800 ball...

 

[trailblazer18]

I think Philly would take Crabbe plus the Cle 1st for Noel. (Not sure how tradeable Crabbe is, as explained above though). Philly pressed hard for Barnes during free agency, and even had his agent in his ear to sign with Philly. I think Crabbe has the same potential to break out with an offense where he is more of the focus/has more opportunity. So Philly is definitely looking to add a player who can come in, not just rely on Embiid, Simmons, and Okafor.

 

[Scalma]

I think Philly would take Crabbe plus the Cle 1st for Noel. (Not sure how tradeable Crabbe is, as explained above though). Philly pressed hard for Barnes during free agency, and even had his agent in his ear to sign with Philly. I think Crabbe has the same potential to break out with an offense where he is more of the focus/has more opportunity. So Philly is definitely looking to add a player who can come in, not just rely on Embiid, Simmons, and Okafor.

Philly was evidently interested in Crabbe but didn't make an offer sheet because they assumed Portland would match. If true, a Noel/Crabbe swap is too obvious.

Another thing on Crabbe; Brooklyn didn't sign him to that sheet because they wanted to fuck with the Blazers. They genuinely wanted him, and thought enough of him to make him a focal point of their team. I think it's kind of foolish to think that they're the only team out there that thinks that highly of Crabbe or that he now has no trade value.

 

[Minstrel]

I think Philly would take Crabbe plus the Cle 1st for Noel. (Not sure how tradeable Crabbe is, as explained above though). Philly pressed hard for Barnes during free agency, and even had his agent in his ear to sign with Philly. I think Crabbe has the same potential to break out with an offense where he is more of the focus/has more opportunity.

Barnes brought good defense and defensive versatility as part of the package. Crabbe is a very weak defender. The problem with Crabbe is that he's a pure scorer who isn't very good at scoring. He's not a play-maker, he's not a good rebounder for his size, he can't defend. He can't even score off the dribble. All he can do, when he's playing well, is shoot. And last season he shot at a career-high level. If that was a good season rather than his new average season, he essentially has no value.

Portland essentially made a bet on Crabbe, that he was on the verge of a breakout. Right now, it looks like they lost that bet and, at least at this time, it's unlikely any other team will choose to take that same bet after his initial terrible 20 games. If Crabbe turns things around and has a great 60 games/playoffs, he might have value again.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Hwy Philly,

Fabio is a process, he'll fit in perfectly

 

[Scalma]

"Crabbe can't defend"

K.

 

[dviss1]

Oh shit! I just saw Noel at Lloyd Center, NO JOKE FAMS!

OMY I damn near did a spit take when I read this. Hilarious!

 

[dviss1]

"Crabbe can't defend"

K.

IMO he can't. Not sure why anyone in here is ranking his defense as even average. He loses his man regularly and his OTB D is suspect.

 

[dviss1]

Look at that catch-and-shoot at 0:04 !

Haha. Love this song. Ralph Tresvant sounds like a chipmunk!

 

[Scalma]

IMO he can't. Not sure why anyone in here is ranking his defense as even average. He loses his man regularly and his OTB D is suspect.

He's inconsistent but we won numerous games last year because of defensive stops he made late in games. At least he's aggressive though, unlike some of the other matadors we have. But that's another area of his game that should improve with more experience. Defense usually takes the longest to master anyway. Thats why most elite defensive squads are teams with a bunch of veterans.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Let's think about this. Philly's key players going forward are:
Embiid (so long as he stays healthy)
Simmons (don't forget about him)

That's about it, really. They have a bunch of pieces to move around, but those are their building blocks. The main question is what does Simmons play? Obviously you play him at F, but do you play him at SF or PF? I'm guessing he actually makes most sense at PF. He's basically a more athletic Draymond Green with even better passing skills but probably nothing near the defense and at the moment can't shoot. Like, AT ALL.

If they keep either Okafor and/or Saric, then they probably have to play Simmons at SF, but I don't think it's ideal. But what they need more than anything is shooters. That's why they're playing Stauskas, who is otherwise kind of a scrub. Ideally they want shooters who can defend multiple wing/guard positions. They can afford to get players who wouldn't work elsewhere because of lacking PG skills, because Simmons is going to be their PG on offense. Doesn't that sound like Crabbe? Well, not what Crabbe IS, but what he was SUPPOSED to be.

I actually think Boston has a better shot, if they want him. They've got a bunch of players like that. The oddity is that Philly wants to trade Noel. He must be a real headcase, because if he isn't, he's much more valuable to them than Saric (a slow white Simmons) or Okafor (a black Enes Kanter).

 

[dviss1]

He's inconsistent but we won numerous games last year because of defensive stops he made late in games. At least he's aggressive though, unlike some of the other matadors we have.

Meh. That was like 2-3 games. The majority of the time he looks deficient.

 

[BBert]

PHI couldn't move Okafor for a mid 1st round pick back in June, and they value Oakfor more than Noel. No way would they seriously demand C.J. for Noel. Crabbe (plus maybe CLE's 1st round pick) should be enough.

BNM

Oh, god, that would be great.

 

[illmatic99]

Yahoo: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nerlen...nearing-his-return-so-now-what-150920737.html

The Celtics are still among a handful of teams in need of rebounding and/or rim protection that might be interested in Noel’s services. The Charlotte Hornets, Los Angeles Lakers, Dallas Mavericks, Washington Wizards and Portland Trail Blazers are among other teams that should inquire. And if Colangelo can create a bidding war, there’s a decent package to be had — a late first-rounder, maybe.

...

Still, a late first-round pick is probably the best the Sixers will get for a big man rental with a litany of injuries who can’t shoot and is looking for the right situation. And they may not get it until Noel proves he’s healthy enough to contribute this season, which could make Brown’s rotations all the more strange for a while and might even make the Philadelphia locker room a little colder than usual.

That's it? A late first rounder?

Done.

And they have about 22 mil of space before even reaching the salary floor, so they can just absorb any contracts we send out outright.

 

[Scalma]

Meh. That was like 2-3 games. The majority of the time he looks deficient.

He is a very good defender when he's locked in. He's got great length and active hands. Unfortunately he tends to get grabby which leads to a lot of stupid fouls. I don't however see an inability to move laterally, so it's just a matter of finding that consistency with his feet.

 

[Scalma]

Yahoo: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nerlen...nearing-his-return-so-now-what-150920737.html



That's it? A late first rounder?

Done.

And they have about 22 mil of space before even reaching the salary floor, so they can just absorb any contracts we send out outright.

This was my guess as well. A draft pick as the highlight of any package. Why would a team give up anything else when they could just sign him in the summer? Everyone knows Philly won't pay him. But yah, I hope Olshey is all over this.

 

[Boob-No-More]

It's not the minutes that's noteworthy, it's the shots. For example, if Crabbe was in Brooklyn, he would be the teams primary perimeter option, shooting at will, with specific plays run just for him. Same thing with Barton in Denver. His role is a lot different than Crabbes. The minutes might be comparable, but Barton has a lot more freedom and gets more shots as well.

The difference is Barton can, and does, create his own shot. Barton takes more than twice as many 2-pointers as 3-pointers and is only assisted on 38.7% of his made 2-point FGs (and 79.5% of his made 3-pointers). He gets more shots because he is capable of creating more shots.

Allen Crabbe takes almost as many 3-pointers as he does 2-pointers. He's assisted on 86.1% of his made 2-pointers and 96.2% of his made 3-pointers. Honestly, I don't think there is a single player in the entire league less capable of creating a shot for himself. So, who in BRK will be creating all these quality looks for Crabbe that he can't create for himself?

Until Crabbe can put the ball on the floor, attack the paint and finish at the rim like Will Barton (or at all), he'll never be anything more than a ridiculously overpaid, one-dimensional, mediocre spot up 3-point shooter, regardless of who he plays for.

BNM

 

[BBert]

Crabbe is eventually going to come around and start shooting the ball well - it's only a matter of time. This is not a new normal for him. GMs know this.

I agree.

IMO, for Crabbe to blossom, he needs to go to a team where he can start. Philly would be a good landing spot for him. I hope their scouts agree.

 

[dviss1]

He is a very good defender when he's locked in. He's got great length and active hands. Unfortunately he tends to get grabby which leads to a lot of stupid fouls. I don't however see an inability to move laterally, so it's just a matter of finding that consistency with his feet.

Well we'll just agree to disagree. There's not one thing about his D that would make me refer to it as very good lol.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Sorry y'all hate Crabbe. Or wait, is it because Turner has improved so you can't shit on him anymore? Who's next after Crabbe starts shooting well again?

This board is going to have a MELTDOWN if (when) another team takes on Crabbes contract.

If by meltdown, you mean party, yeah I can see it.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

I agree.

IMO, for Crabbe to blossom, he needs to go to a team where he can start. Philly would be a good landing spot for him. I hope their scouts agree.

Please, oh please, oh please!!!!

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Well we'll just agree to disagree. There's not one thing about his D that would make me refer to it as very good lol.

Agreed. He has the worst DRtg on the worst defensive team in the league.

I suppose the good news is that means he has nowhere to go but up.

BNM

 

[BonesJones]

I've heard that Crabbe can't create his own shot, but I don't agree with it. Hes not a ball handler, but he's added a pretty effective dribble pull-up to his game. He works well off screens with the ball.

And that's assuming he's hit his ceiling, which I don't think he has. He's never going to be a CJ but there's no reason he can't continue to add to his arsenal.

Being able to shoot from the mid-range doesn't mean you can create your own shot. Being able to hit on open shot off a curl screen isn't creating your own shot. Any competent player can take one dribble into a pull up jumper. (His height and release point allows him to shoot over NBA defenders, but that's not creating your own shot)

 

[oldfisherman]

Colangelo’s asking price (for Noel) if it’s still as high as it was rumored to be in June, when the Sixers reportedly sought the No. 3 pick and more from the Boston Celtics.

 

[Scalma]

Being able to shoot from the mid-range doesn't mean you can create your own shot. Being able to hit on open shot off a curl screen isn't creating your own shot. Any competent player can take one dribble into a pull up jumper. (His height and release point allows him to shoot over NBA defenders, but that's not creating your own shot)

Call it whatever you want (I don't see how dribbling a ball into a pull-up isn't creating your own shot but whatever) there is no reason why Crabbe couldn't be a legit scorer on a team like Brooklyn. Look at how Klay has developed. He wasn't "creating his shot" until a year or so ago and still found a way to be lethal. There are plenty of guys that don't fall under your definition of being able to create their own shot that still find a way to be big time scorers.

 

[BonesJones]

LMAO No. 3 and more?? That's absurd. If they honestly think they can get that much value in return then Colangelo is out of his mind.

 

[BonesJones]

Call it whatever you want (I don't see how dribbling a ball into a pull-up isn't creating your own shot but whatever) there is no reason why Crabbe couldn't be a legit scorer on a team like Brooklyn. Look at how Klay has developed. He wasn't "creating his shot" until a year or so ago and still found a way to be lethal. There are plenty of guys that don't fall under your definition of being able to create their own shot that still find a way to be big time scorers.

Dribbling into a pull up because a defender chased you off the 3-point line or jumped at a pump fake is different than one of CJ's pullup jumpers with a defender on his hip. The first is taking the open shot the defense gives you, the 2nd is creating your own shot.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I've heard that Crabbe can't create his own shot

You heard right. Just look at those numbers I posted in my previous reply. He is assisted on 86.1% of his made 2-pointers and 96.2% of his made 3-pointers. Those numbers are insane. Miles Plumlee, Meyers Leonard and Noah Vonleh are all more capable of creating their own shot than Allen Crabbe - a guy some people think deserves to be a stating SG in this league. I hope he is someday - for someone else.

And that's assuming he's hit his ceiling, which I don't think he has. He's never going to be a CJ but there's no reason he can't continue to add to his arsenal.

What, exactly, has he added to his game since he came into the league four years ago? He's still more reliant on others to create shots for him than anyone else on the team. He's still the worst rebounder on the team and one of the worst passers. He still barely shoots above the league average on 3-pointers (his one, and only, skill). What does he do better this year than he did at this time last year (hint: the answer is nothing; last year was his career year and he was a barely average bench player). What does he do better today than he did two years ago (hint: again the answer is nothing, his advanced stats this year are virtually identical to what they were two years ago).

BNM