Sam Amico: Blazers have talked to Sixers about Noel

[oldfisherman]

I believe it will take Crabbe and two first round picks to land Noel. With maybe a few second round picks thrown in to sweeten the deal, or maybe a second player such as Napier.

One first round pick just to swallow Crabbe’s stupid contract, and the other plus sweeteners for Noel.

 

[Boob-No-More]

That's just patently false. When he was the featured player in SL '15 he was hitting all kinds of shots that he'd never been good at before. But of course, once he got paid, he had his brain wiped of that now redundant skill. Like a sea squirt eating its own brains when it's found a place to live.

LOL, a 3rd year player was killing it in summer league. Yeah that proves.... well, nothing actually. Qyntel Woods says, "hi".

So, when do we get to see those bad ass summer league skills on display during the real games? It's all relative. He'd probably look pretty damn good in my Sunday evening rec league.

BNM

 

[Orion Bailey]

He was certainly better. Good enough so Brooklyn thought it worth giving him a huge offer sheet.

Every league has a team that makes stupid moves. Doesn't mean he was worth the money.

That in itself is unusual for a young player. Last year was his first year getting consistent minutes, and he excelled in them. To return to his play when he was getting spot minutes and was unsure of his role would be strange enough to need explaining.

Really? I can think off the top of my head many players that had a good year and then regressed rather than continuing to improve. Nic Batum come to mind? Or how about Martel Webster? and that's just for the Blazers.... Ill put together a list this weekend hopefully.

Why is that the be-all and end-all? Plenty of very useful players have negligible skills at creating their own shots. That's why it's 5-on-5 not 1-on-1.

Because we aren't talking bench roll players, we are talking starter money. If your not an elite defender, then you better be able to be an elite shooter or create your own shot. He is none of these. And that is why the story has ended.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I think it's a mistake to think of players as being "good in the abstract" - like you could just pluck them out of context and their essence shines through. Not only are a lot of players in need of psychological and emotional support, so that they thrive when they have coaches and teammates who believe in them, but even psychologically tough players can struggle if they're forced to do things they're not good at.

Look at the contrast between Kevin Love in Minny and then Kevin Love under Blatt. But Blatt gets fired, and in comes Lue and suddenly Kevin Love is producing again, because Lue makes it a point to play to his strengths.

Look at Mo Harkless: up and down in Orlando to the point that he's dumped for essentially nothing. Now he's playing very solid ball for us. Did he suddenly learn how to play? Of course not.

Crabbe is known for being INCREDIBLY reserved. I would wager that he's a confidence player and that he's currently unsure of his role with Turner being there. As I've said before, I'd like to see him fill in for CJ for a few games (if CJ was sick or something) before I decide to write him off.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Sheesh, it's not like I'm a huge Crabbe fan. But this dumping on him is just kind of lazy.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Sheesh, it's not like I'm a huge Crabbe fan. But this dumping on him is just kind of lazy.

If You are implying me, I am only dumping on him because it seems some think he has some serious upside still.

Sorry, I don't see it. I think he is what he is 7-10 man on the bench to spot fill when you need some offence. Not much more though and even then his offense is inconsistent.. That isn't a knock...except for his contract.

 

[BonesJones]

That "and a choice of any of our players not named Lillard" probably means Harkless. I think he's easily the most attractive trade bait on Portland's roster after Lillard and McCollum.

So, that means Portland's part of the deal would be: McCollum, Harkless, CLE 1st for Noel and Cousins.

That's not too unrealistic. It would depend on Sacramento being willing to trade low on Cousins, though, because even a good first rounder, a bad one and Harkless isn't really worth Cousins' talent. But if they feel they can't get the most out of him, they may have to trade below his value. The real problem is that another team will likely out-bid that and leverage is based on the best offer.

Harkless and a likely top 5 pick would be great value for Cousins, especially in this draft which has the best top 5 prospects since 2003.

 

[Boob-No-More]

He was certainly better. Good enough so Brooklyn thought it worth giving him a huge offer sheet.

And DAL also thought Wes Matthews (ruptured Achilles and all) was worth a huge offer sheet. Doesn't mean they were right.

Why is that the be-all and end-all? Plenty of very useful players have negligible skills at creating their own shots. That's why it's 5-on-5 not 1-on-1.

Yeah, but those guys are also elite shooters. Crabbe is not. Out of all the starting SGs in the league, Kyle Korver is the only one I can think of that relies as much on others to create for him as Crabbe does. And, even at 36, Korver is a much better shooter than Crabbe (.421 3FG% vs. .361 3FG%).

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

I think it's a mistake to think of players as being "good in the abstract" - like you could just pluck them out of context and their essence shines through. Not only are a lot of players in need of psychological and emotional support, so that they thrive when they have coaches and teammates who believe in them, but even psychologically tough players can struggle if they're forced to do things they're not good at.

The team matched BRK's ridiculous $75 million offer sheet. How much more validation does he need? It's not like we're asking him to do anything he's not comfortable doing. We're just asking him to consistently knock down wide open 3-pointers. We're not asking him to rebound, create for himself, or others.

Look at Mo Harkless: up and down in Orlando to the point that he's dumped for essentially nothing. Now he's playing very solid ball for us. Did he suddenly learn how to play? Of course not.

No, but he was a young player who worked on improving his weaknesses and is reaping the benefits. Prior to this season, he was a career .300 3FG% shooter. This year he's at .390. He currently has the highest 2FG%, 3FG% and FT% of his career. It wasn't about "suddenly learning to play". He saw a weakness (shooting) and improved it.

BNM

 

[illmatic99]

This notion that AC isn't "working" is so bogus.

All summer we saw videos of him working on his handle and creating for himself. Hell, it's even translating. How many more times has he passed out of the pick and rolls this season than ever before? His problem is that he lets his shooting affect the rest of his game-- like 90% of the young guys in the NBA.

Easy to pile on a guy when he's in a slump.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

The team matched BRK's ridiculous $75 million offer sheet. How much more validation does he need?

Have you considered a career as a counselor? "C'mon weakling! You're costing us a shitload, so fucking produce why don'tcha?"

(Cue comment about how millionaires shouldn't need coddling.)

 

[Boob-No-More]

Have you considered a career as a counselor? "C'mon weakling! You're costing us a shitload, so fucking produce why don'tcha?"

(Cue comment about how millionaires shouldn't need coddling.)

Do you honestly think anyone in the organization has said anything remotely like that to Crabbe? And, if you do, do also you think that's why he's having, as you called it, "a shitty season"?

It sure seems like you're grasping at straws to come up with some reason why a guy who got paid big bucks is having a down year that's more in line with his previous career performance.

Maybe he'll still turn it around this season. If not, I sure hope he works on improving his game over the summer. If not, that hideous contract becomes an even bigger albatross around this team's neck.

BNM

 

[Chris Craig]

I'd try to package for Nolen and Sergio

 

[Five Second Violation]

If Crabbe could get us Noel then we take that and run with it. I'm skeptical that Philly would do it, however.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I'd try to package for Nolen and Sergio

Yeah, how many draft picks do you think they will give us to take Sergio off their hands?

After six seasons in Europe, the rumor was he learned how to shoot. Evidently the rim is lower, or the hoop bigger, or something over there, because back here in the big league, he's the same horrible shooter and terrible defender he's always been. His FG% is .377 and his 3FG% is .303 and he still has a 23.8% TOV%.

And, he's about to lose his starting job to Jerryd Bayless. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

BNM

 

[Blazinaway]

If Crabbe could get us Noel then we take that and run with it. I'm skeptical that Philly would do it, however.

Philly IMO is not going to trade Noel just for Crabbe - by the time is trade kicker is added in and prorated he costs about 21 mil PER SEASON, we are going to have to offer a good bit more IMO to get rid of him and get Noel back - perhaps two firsts, a lotto protected 2017 and the Cle pick

 

[riverman]

I've been supportive of all the guys on our roster but Crabbe is playing like a guy who just got paid, not a guy trying to get paid...maybe a cliché but he's not producing or stopping James Harden or even Ryan Anderson anytime soon....I think he's just too mellow...if he were vocal on the court which he should be, nobody would hear him....he whispers. There's a difference between bashing him and evaluating his performance after a big contract....I hope he snaps out of it but he now plays one decent game and five or six no shows..

 

[blue9]

That "and a choice of any of our players not named Lillard" probably means Harkless. I think he's easily the most attractive trade bait on Portland's roster after Lillard and McCollum.

So, that means Portland's part of the deal would be: McCollum, Harkless, CLE 1st for Noel and Cousins.

That's not too unrealistic. It would depend on Sacramento being willing to trade low on Cousins, though, because even a good first rounder, a bad one and Harkless isn't really worth Cousins' talent. But if they feel they can't get the most out of him, they may have to trade below his value. The real problem is that another team will likely out-bid that and leverage is based on the best offer.

I think you're severely overvaluing DMC/Noel, who are basically "expiring contracts", and undervaluing CJ/Harkless who are signed to friendly long-term contracts. We get HOSED on this trade.

Not to mention, that has us trading our only SF and our only starting-worthy SG for two more bigs, bringing the total up to EIGHT PFs/Cs, and leaving us with Crabbe, Turner, and Layman as our only wings. Hey, I like what I've seen from Layman, but this "proposed" trade would stupidly unbalance our already unbalanced roster.

 

[oldfisherman]

Philly IMO is not going to trade Noel just for Crabbe - by the time is trade kicker is added in and prorated he costs about 21 mil PER SEASON, we are going to have to offer a good bit more IMO to get rid of him and get Noel back - perhaps two firsts, a lotto protected 2017 and the Cle pick

I believe the entire trade kicker is paid by the Blazers. But the Blazers only use the player's pre-trade salary (without the bonus), when comparing salaries for trade.

Philly must count the portion of the trade kicker that applies to team salary in that season as incoming salary. Half a season = only half that years kicker is applied to the team salary cap.

Hope I got that right.

 

[blue9]

I've been supportive of all the guys on our roster but Crabbe is playing like a guy who just got paid...

Or like a guy who knows he was only signed to be traded...

 

[Five Second Violation]

Philly IMO is not going to trade Noel just for Crabbe - by the time is trade kicker is added in and prorated he costs about 21 mil PER SEASON, we are going to have to offer a good bit more IMO to get rid of him and get Noel back - perhaps two firsts, a lotto protected 2017 and the Cle pick

Yeah, I don't see any way we get Noel without giving up a pick. Philly likely doesn't care about our bigs, either.

 

[Minstrel]

I think you're severely overvaluing DMC/Noel, who are basically "expiring contracts", and undervaluing CJ/Harkless who are signed to friendly long-term contracts. We get HOSED on this trade.

I'm mostly valuing Cousins, not Noel. Cousins is one of the premier players in the league, and a far better player than McCollum, if he's straight. The fact that he's not always straight is why he'd be available at all. If Cousins had interest in being in Portland, I think the Blazers win that total exchange pretty easily which is why I've said, in a previous post, that Portland would need to be able to talk to Cousins first.

And while losing the team's only real starting-caliber small forward and shooting guard definitely unbalances the roster in terms of positions, it re-balances the roster in terms of being manageable to build a real defense in addition to offense. The Blazers are almost certainly never building a strong defense around two terrible guards--that's simply punting too much perimeter defense in a league full of attacking guards. Having Lillard and Cousins as the foundational pieces brings into the mix a center who's capable of being a good defender in addition to being a great offensive player. Obviously the team would need to make further trades to divest themselves of bigs and acquire new wings, but that's a far easier task than putting into place a star tandem that you can build a champion around. If the star tandem is Lillard and McCollum, I personally don't think Portland ever gets past the stage of "fun, awesome offense that loses too many shoot-outs to challenge for a title."

I think people in general undervalue defense on the individual level. If a player is a great scorer, that player's defense becomes an afterthought, even if that lack of defense erodes a lot of value.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

I'm a huge noel fanboy, his offense never developed, but he is a beast on defense. Get him!

 

[blue9]

I'm mostly valuing Cousins, not Noel. Cousins is one of the premier players in the league, and a far better player than McCollum, if he's straight. The fact that he's not always straight is why he'd be available at all. If Cousins had interest in being in Portland, I think the Blazers win that total exchange pretty easily which is why I've said, in a previous post, that Portland would need to be able to talk to Cousins first.

And while losing the team's only real starting-caliber small forward and shooting guard definitely unbalances the roster in terms of positions, it re-balances the roster in terms of being manageable to build a real defense in addition to offense. The Blazers are almost certainly never building a strong defense around two terrible guards--that's simply punting too much perimeter defense in a league full of attacking guards. Having Lillard and Cousins as the foundational pieces brings into the mix a center who's capable of being a good defender in addition to being a great offensive player. Obviously the team would need to make further trades to divest themselves of bigs and acquire new wings, but that's a far easier task than putting into place a star tandem that you can build a champion around. If the star tandem is Lillard and McCollum, I personally don't think Portland ever gets past the stage of "fun, awesome offense that loses too many shoot-outs to challenge for a title."

I think people in general undervalue defense on the individual level. If a player is a great scorer, that player's defense becomes an afterthought, even if that lack of defense erodes a lot of value.

A - Our defensive problems won't be fixed until we get a coach who understands defense.
B - DMC isn't that great of a defender. Sure, he's better than anyone we have, but that's not saying much. Actually, he's overrated both offensively and defensively - and this is coming from someone who wants DMC.
C - The league has very few good wings - the chances of turning Davis/Meyers/Vonleh/Plumlee into a starting SG and a starting SF are slim (at best). We're very lucky to have a good SG and SF on long-term, friendly contracts.
D - I do agree that Dame/DMC would provide a more balanced duo than Dame/CJ, but that does not mean that DMC is better than, or worth more than, CJ. It's possible that a simple CJ/DMC swap would be a win for both teams, but if both teams don't win it's the Blazers that lose.

 

[Scalma]

A - Our defensive problems won't be fixed until we get a coach who understands defense.

The ignorance of comments like this lolol.

 

[WillG]

Would much rather get Okafor.
Noels defense is nice, but we need a low post scorer, and I believe Okafor can improve more defensively than Noel can improve offensively.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I'm just going to say.... A 26-year old Sheed would solve everything. He could fit in this lineup from inside-out, play some D, be the guy that fires this team up and calls bullshit when the refs are homering us. He'd fit Stotts system a little too well.

And he'd be surrounded by some guys, like Dame, that would probably have kept him reasonably in line (better than back in the day, anyway).

 

[BlayZa]

id like us to get Sabonis somehow, then persuade him to get his dad to join as a Big Man coach or anything else he wants to do tbh..

 

[riverman]

If a player is a great scorer, that player's defense becomes an afterthought

the allstar game

 

[Blazer4ever]

You would trade for a third PG before a starting center?

Not necessarily a 3rd PG but a 3rd guard. Could be a SG or a combo-guard.
Turner and Crabbe are both SFs and are being forced to play out of position