Should we Simonize?

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What to do with Ant?

  • Sign him for what might be around $20,000,000 to start next to Dame

  • Trade him for a larger wing who would fit better next to Dame

  • Sign him for around $15,000,000 to be a Super-Sub

  • Trade Dame/CJ and build around the 22 year old and all the pieces coming back

Results are only viewable after voting.
the next chapter of 'Can we have another 6'3" SG"

i think he is doing great recently, but he needs to earn his stripes with some consistency this year. i dont want to see him playing SG at all. He's getting all these stats with the massive freedom he has with Dame not on the court. i dont see really any way he'd continue to perform like that with a better version of him taking all the freedoms at PG.

trading CJ is still the goal and if we need to bundle him in to get a decent wing or PF, i think we have to. else we are just moving pieces in the spots where we are the strongest and again, not addressing our weaknesses at sf/pf that crop up year after year.
 
There are always exceptions for trading or keeping a player depending on who is on the other end of the trade. Very few players are untouchable.
I don't care how he does in the next 6 games, I like his versatility, skill, and potential. I want to keep him because Dame is not getting any younger and we need the depth if he starts to break down. (No I would not trade Dame either)

Again who are we talking about trading Ant for? These discussions are fun to have but are too arbitrary.

I agree that we need to find that big guard who can play alongside Dame or Ant, but I would not want to trade Little to get him. That would just create the need for an SF and I see no reason why Little can't start at SF long-term.

How many games have we seen NP start at SG with Dame? I would rather get an upgrade at PF before we focus on getting an upgrade at SG. I would not be upset at making the lottery as there are a few solid PFs at the top of the mock drafts. (although I admit I have not seen them play) But regardless we need a veteran PF now. Ideally, CJ could get that done. Harris is overpaid and makes more than CJ. I would try for that at this point. Simmons would be ideal in my mind but I would take Harris and his contract. But I am not throwing in Ant or Little for Harris.
 
I guess my mandate to trade Ant is relative to what we can get. If we can't get a couple of first and I think we could get that at this point but maybe I'm wrong or at least a first and a second that would be high but if we can't get a decent return then obviously we don't trade him. We also most definitely don't let trading Ant distract us from trading CJ. We should also be looking to trade Norm if we can get a better defender at the SG position. I think we have some trade value with RoCo and Nurk as well and we should trade them too.

This team is not functional the only way you keep Ant is if you trade Dame, CJ, Norm, RoCo, Nurk and Larry... that's it. Obviously just in my opinion.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
There are always exceptions for trading or keeping a player depending on who is on the other end of the trade. Very few players are untouchable.
I don't care how he does in the next 6 games, I like his versatility, skill, and potential. I want to keep him because Dame is not getting any younger and we need the depth if he starts to break down. (No I would not trade Dame either)

Again who are we talking about trading Ant for? These discussions are fun to have but are too arbitrary.

I agree that we need to find that big guard who can play alongside Dame or Ant, but I would not want to trade Little to get him. That would just create the need for an SF and I see no reason why Little can't start at SF long-term.

How many games have we seen NP start at SG with Dame? I would rather get an upgrade at PF before we focus on getting an upgrade at SG. I would not be upset at making the lottery as there are a few solid PFs at the top of the mock drafts. (although I admit I have not seen them play) But regardless we need a veteran PF now. Ideally, CJ could get that done. Harris is overpaid and makes more than CJ. I would try for that at this point. Simmons would be ideal in my mind but I would take Harris and his contract. But I am not throwing in Ant or Little for Harris.
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I think the best option is to rest Dame the rest of the season, play Ant at PG and CJ at SG. Make sure Ant makes it an emphasis to set up CJ for better shots so he can keep developing that part of his game. CJ’s also a professional, I’m sure he will defer to Ant when Chauncey says let Ant get his.
CJ’s not as good as Dame, we all get that. But now is our opportunity to see where Ant is vs Dame with basically the same roster as the beginning of the season. I think there’s a solid chance Simons can become the centerpiece of a Simmons deal in FA, which would be even better for us because CJ can be traded for other assets.
 
Orion Bailey said:
Lol. Come on man. Lol.
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I don't get your post.

I agree with Cat there is at the least an argument to be made for trading CJ + resigning Ant vs keeping CJ + trading Ant. Especially with this franchise currently outside the lottery and no clear path to become a contender. Giving the 22 year old the rest of the season to produce and not mortgaging the future might be the far and away superior decision a few years from now.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
I don't get your post.

I agree with Cat there is at the least an argument to be made for trading CJ + resigning Ant vs keeping CJ + trading Ant. Especially with this franchise currently outside the lottery and no clear path to become a contender. Giving the 22 year old the rest of the season to produce and not mortgaging the future might be the far and away superior decision a few years from now.
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If we dealt CJ we would still have Powell and Ant to share the guard duties with Dame.

If we couldn't get anything for CJ we could trade Powell I guess.

I just don't really want to deal Ant unless it is for something big. A future 1st isn't worth it.
 
Simons and CJ for Jaylen Brown would be perfect. Maybe Smart in the deal too? Simons needs his own team and he won’t have it here if Dame stays.
 
McCollum’s collapsed lung has occurred at the worst possible time. We’re going to get far less for him than we would have two months ago. Despite that, he still needs to go. Simons is our shooting guard now.
 
I don't want him as an SG next to Dame (for the same reasons I want CJ traded), and I don't want to "build around him" either. If he can be retained at a reasonable cost as a 6th man, that's great. Or if Dame is traded for another franchise player, I could see Simons as a starting PG supporting a star forward (who, I don't know).

overall though, it seems the most likely/reasonable result is him being dealt. But I can't help but think that other teams and fans will see what Simons is doing now as a classic "good player on a bad team" situation.
 
blazerkor said:
I guess my mandate to trade Ant is relative to what we can get. If we can't get a couple of first and I think we could get that at this point but maybe I'm wrong or at least a first and a second that would be high but if we can't get a decent return then obviously we don't trade him. We also most definitely don't let trading Ant distract us from trading CJ. We should also be looking to trade Norm if we can get a better defender at the SG position. I think we have some trade value with RoCo and Nurk as well and we should trade them too.

This team is not functional the only way you keep Ant is if you trade Dame, CJ, Norm, RoCo, Nurk and Larry... that's it. Obviously just in my opinion.
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I think the key to getting value for CJ is to include Ant in the deal.
 
KSF-ERIC said:
I think the key to getting value for CJ is to include Ant in the deal.
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If a team wants two guys with very similar strengths and weaknesses one of which is going to make 33M next season and the other they might have to match as high as 20M to keep, that would be surprising to me but hell a lot of things are surprising to me.
 
Freshtown said:
ding ding ding.

people here act like it’s rare for a scoring guard to go on a hot streak for a few weeks.

do you know how many bench scorers have have the kind of run ant has had? A lot!
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Well Simons is on the 11th player this season to score 43 points and all the rest have been All Stars. I’ll check his span of games as starter too.
 
blazerkor said:
If a team wants two guys with very similar strengths and weaknesses one of which is going to make 33M next season and the other they might have to match as high as 20M to keep, that would be surprising to me but hell a lot of things are surprising to me.
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That’s a good point.
 
Freshtown said:
ding ding ding.

people here act like it’s rare for a scoring guard to go on a hot streak for a few weeks.

do you know how many bench scorers have have the kind of run ant has had? A lot!
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So I looked it up. NO ONE, bench or starter, has had Anfernee Simons’ numbers over a 5 game span this season. And get this- the last four people to do it (last season) were Damian Lillard, Damian Lillard, Damian Lillard, and Damian Lillard. No wonder he’s Top 75.
 
At this point, Simons may be more untouchable than Dame. You’ve got him on a really good contract, you’re in the driver’s seat for his next one, and he’s only 22. Dame’s prime will last maybe 2-3 more years and then his contract becomes an albatross.

The ideal vision - trade CJ, start Dame, Norm, and Little. Keep Simons off the bench so that maybe other teams don’t attempt to max him as an RFA. At that point, trade or bench Norm.

At this point, resting Dame for the year may actually hurt us, because the whole NBA will see Simons’ true value just as his contract is up for renewal.
 
Hey said:
At this point, Simons may be more untouchable than Dame. You’ve got him on a really good contract, you’re in the driver’s seat for his next one, and he’s only 22. Dame’s prime will last maybe 2-3 more years and then his contract becomes an albatross.

The ideal vision - trade CJ, start Dame, Norm, and Little. Keep Simons off the bench so that maybe other teams don’t attempt to max him as an RFA. At that point, trade or bench Norm.

At this point, resting Dame for the year may actually hurt us, because the whole NBA will see Simons’ true value just as his contract is up for renewal.
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I think that’s a lot to ask for. For 1) when you do that, you’re messing with a man’s money. It’s different if it’s deserved, but Ant has shown thus far what he do. Let him dictate his value, not us. You don’t ruin a man’s ability to earn what he deserves for his family. Guys do this for a living, can’t expect them to go out and lose.
For 2) how do we know Simons can’t become a centerpiece of a Simmons deal? If he shows for an entire season he can put up these stats, why wouldn’t a sign-and-trade be possible? He’s perfect for what they need if he shows he’s a 5-7 apg guy while he’s starting. Whatever pick compensation we send them is going to a team that takes Tobias anyway.

If he keeps playing well, bench Norm, start Ant at PG and CJ at SG. If Ant shows signs of inconsistency again, bench him and play CJ at PG Norm at SG. Or if you want to clear that logjam, trade Norm because he’s shown he’s not a long term fit anyway. If Ant develops into the centerpiece of a Ben trade, great, you still have CJ to deal for assets as well and that’ll clear up plenty of cap space for a team centered around Dame Ben Little. If Ant ends the season on the bench, $15m a year sounds like a more realistic number that you can re-sign him for over 4 years, at which point CJ can be traded and Simons can start next season.

That would probably be the most professional way of going about it. You can ask Dame to sit for the year and that gives you time to evaluate team construction. You can trade Covington and even Nurkic (preferable) with Norm for assets and see how far Ant and CJ take you with a lottery team. That’s a situation where even if we get a low lotto pick, it probably increases CJ and Ant’s trade value significantly.
 
Hey said:
At this point, Simons may be more untouchable than Dame. You’ve got him on a really good contract, you’re in the driver’s seat for his next one, and he’s only 22. Dame’s prime will last maybe 2-3 more years and then his contract becomes an albatross.

The ideal vision - trade CJ, start Dame, Norm, and Little. Keep Simons off the bench so that maybe other teams don’t attempt to max him as an RFA. At that point, trade or bench Norm.

At this point, resting Dame for the year may actually hurt us, because the whole NBA will see Simons’ true value just as his contract is up for renewal.
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2 to 3 more years left? Paul is 37 and on pace for All NBA this season. Is his contract an albatross?
 
No. Dame should be expected to have at least 5-6 more years at his peak. Simons should be used to get Dame a real all star PF.
 
Trading away Simons now for a Dale Davis "all star" big man could be far worse than letting Jermaine O'Neal go two decades ago.

It shocks me so many fans are arguing for this same type of strategy again. At least that Blazers team was a legit contender. This roster is a lottery bound pile of frustration with hardly any long term upside.

This Blazers team should be trading away mediocre veterans for upside, not trading away just about their only upside player for mediocre veterans.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
I don't get your post.

I agree with Cat there is at the least an argument to be made for trading CJ + resigning Ant vs keeping CJ + trading Ant. Especially with this franchise currently outside the lottery and no clear path to become a contender. Giving the 22 year old the rest of the season to produce and not mortgaging the future might be the far and away superior decision a few years from now.
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i 100% agree with most. My comment was more so who he directed his question to. Not what the question was.
He was feeding a troll schtick!

im right period! No argument!


And cat responded to that. So i was laughing.

i was laughing because i felt cat thought he would get a legit answer. So i was like.. come on man… this schtick has been being played for a while…

come on man… :)
 
SlyPokerCat said:
If we dealt CJ we would still have Powell and Ant to share the guard duties with Dame.

If we couldn't get anything for CJ we could trade Powell I guess.

I just don't really want to deal Ant unless it is for something big. A future 1st isn't worth it.
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exactly. Thats why the statement to trade him is the only answer is so ridiculous i was laughing at you responding to such a ridiculous take.
 
WesleyMatthews said:
Trading away Simons now for a Dale Davis "all star" big man could be far worse than letting Jermaine O'Neal go two decades ago.

It shocks me so many fans are arguing for this same type of strategy again. At least that Blazers team was a legit contender. This roster is a lottery bound pile of frustration with hardly any long term upside.

This Blazers team should be trading away mediocre veterans for upside, not trading away just about their only upside player for mediocre veterans.
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you really narrowed down the parameters of the suggestions to fit your narrative

obviously, trading Simons for a "Dale Davis" may very well be a bad idea. But the NBA has changed and so has the PF position. It's not a Dale Davis type player anymore. Using Simons to get a modern PF like John Collins, or Jaren Jackson, or Lauri Markannen or Bojan Bogdonovich or Chrisian Wood or Bobby Portis doesn't look so bad, does it? Now, obviously those level of players may be out of reach...but they may not, we don't know. If Simons has the upside and value you imply, then maybe his inclusion can fetch back a very good PF...or SF

but I think there are plenty of questions about just how much upside Simons has. Suggesting trading him 2 weeks ago would NOT have brought down a rain of negative comments. The recency bias of a tiny 5 game sample size is strong. Considering those 5 games all came at home and he played against a string of weak defenders (except for the 1st half before Lowry was ejected) means that upside could be mostly mirage at this point. If he's still operating at a high level after the next 6 road games, then maybe. But even then, an 11 game sample size is really quite small. CJ had a 12 game hot streak at the beginning of last season and it's obvious he was not nearly as good as that 12 games. It's entirely possible Simons isn't nearly as good as these last 5 games suggest

and just what is his realistic upside anyway? Is it better than what CJ established? If Simons is CJ 2.0, how much value is really there?

that's not to say I'd just toss him into a trade package for a "mediocre" talent. But the Simon hype-train is out of control. I'm seeing people suggesting that Portland trade Dame and build a team around Simons. Because of 5 home games. That's just loopy
 
If you go this route you have to pair him with a defensive minded guard.

Any other way and it’s going down the same path Neil stubbornly took: treadmill city. You can’t contend with a backcourt that can’t defend.

Lu Dort is obviously my choice.
 
Simons seizing his opportunity with Lillard out for Blazers (yahoo.com)
c4c6ae7f8d1f6f2cac53f54b73097c58
 
To me -- especially in the wake of Dame electing for surgery, the front office should be evaluating everybody and their value both internally (relative to their salary) as well as to other teams, relative to their return. Roco, Nurk, CJ, Nance should all be shopped, hell worth finding out if someone will give you something of value for McLemore with the way he's been playing of late.

Ant and Little have been the only real bright spot this year, but if someone offers the moon for them, I think you have to strongly consider it. Doesn't mean you have to do it, but assets and flexibility should be highly valued at this point...
 
glazeduck said:
To me -- especially in the wake of Dame electing for surgery, the front office should be evaluating everybody and their value both internally (relative to their salary) as well as to other teams, relative to their return. Roco, Nurk, CJ, Nance should all be shopped, hell worth finding out if someone will give you something of value for McLemore with the way he's been playing of late.

Ant and Little have been the only real bright spot this year, but if someone offers the moon for them, I think you have to strongly consider it. Doesn't mean you have to do it, but assets and flexibility should be highly valued at this point...
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I think you stop short of what really has to happen. You shop everyone. I love Ant and Nas but their value has to be really high right now, of course you only trade those guys or more likely make them part of a trade package if you're getting back a huge return but they have to be shopped. You also missed Norm. I know Norm is on a team friendly contract and that he's really solid on both ends of the court but he isn't the defensive stopper that we need next to Dame and he (just like Dame, CJ and Ant) is at his best when creating his own shot with the ball in his hands.
 
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