Politics Single Payer

[dviss1]

Vox (a far left wing tilted site) explains why single payer fell apart in New Hampshire.

For @dviss1

https://www.vox.com/2014/12/22/7427117/single-payer-vermont-shumlin

Putting a price tag on Vermont’s single-payer plan was a maddening task for health economists after Act 48 passed. In just the past two years, different economic modeling firms have priced the project anywhere from $1.6 billion to $2.5 billion during its first year.

...


The Shumlin administration contracted with London and a team of economists at her university last year to estimate the cost of Vermont’s plan. Their report estimated that Vermont will need to raise an additional $1.6 billion in tax revenue in 2017 to pay for a single-payer system. (Lunge says, due to some different assumptions, this report and the new one estimating a $2.5 billion price tag are not completely "apples to apples" comparisons).

As the 2017 launch date for single-payer grew closer, the Shumlin administration began to dive into the details of how, exactly, it would work — and began to falter.

...

Covering more people meant spending more money. "This is a challenge we face as a state setting up a system, rather than an entire country," said Lunge. "We have borders, and people come in across those borders every day."

The increased costs and decreased revenue started to add up. The Shumlin administration estimated it would need to increase payroll taxes by 11.5 percent and income tax by 9 percent.

About half of countries who attempt to build single-payer systems fail. That’s Harvard health economist William Hsiao’s estimate after working with about 10 governments in the past two decades.

In December 2014, Vermont canceled its plan for single-payer healthcare.[63] Vermont passed legislation in 2011 creating Green Mountain Care.[95] When Governor Peter Shumlin signed the bill into law, Vermont became the first state to functionally have a single-payer health care system.[96] While the bill is considered a single-payer bill, private insurers can continue to operate in the state indefinitely, meaning it does not fit the strict definition of single-payer. Representative Mark Larson, the initial sponsor of the bill, has described Green Mountain Care's provisions "as close as we can get [to single-payer] at the state level."[97][98]

Vermont abandoned the plan in 2014, citing costs and tax increases as too high to implement.[99]

 

[dviss1]

Facts?

Yeah, you know, the ones you don't get to choose.

 

[MarAzul]

Then why don't you make that choice?

You boys have been voting to eliminate my choices. Choice is pretty well gone now. I think you all deserve to be aware of the effects. It does shed light on the path you all want.

 

[Denny Crane]

Do you have a list of those 10 countries?

William Hsiao is the architect of ObamaCare.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=William+Hsiao

 

[Denny Crane]

I don't think Denny really understands what "far left" means.

Of course, why should that be the one thing he understands?

Sure I do.

Socialism isn't center left.

Funny that YOU don't know what it is.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

You boys have been voting to eliminate my choices. Choice is pretty well gone now. I think you all deserve to be aware of the effects. It does shed light on the path you all want.

What the fuck are you talking about?

Just recently you said your doctor order tests but you didn't like the wait it would take to have those tests done.

I asked you what tests.

You told me you didn't know.

I said you should call your doctor's nurse and ask what tests.

You didn't like that and complained about Obama.

Then you wanted people to call their congressmen to get more money for your guberment healthcare.

Then you complained more about waiting.

Finally.... finally you say your doctor ordered an EKG.

The average price of an EKG is $50.

$50.

So you would rather put your health in jeopardy and complain instead of pulling $50 out of your pocket and paying to have an EKG done.

Those are the health care choices you are making.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

William Hsiao is the architect of ObamaCare.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=William Hsiao

You're the one repeating that fact like it means something.

If we're talking Sudan, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan or some other shit hole countries that's not really applicable.

Let's see your list.

 

[MarAzul]

The government would dictate how physicians practice medicine.

Well, check out how well Oregon's Oregon healthcare plan covers cancer. The bottom line is they do dictate what to do.

Waits for services would be extremely long.

I have been posting about waiting for the VA. That is run by the Government you know.
Check out the wait times in Canada, UK

Most businesses would save money.

Most large Business would not save money. They self insure with costs as low as half the price of commercial insurance for their employees. I think it would be wounderful if small employers had a way to join so they could be collectively self insure and save also. That might be the biggest help to more people than anything that could be done. Just need a little help from the Federal government to enable the possibility.

So this list is not facts, it is propaganda.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

Yeah, you know, the ones you don't get to choose.

This just drips with irony.

How can you honestly base your argument upon two opinion pieces?

 

[dviss1]

This just drips with irony.

How can you honestly base your argument upon two opinion pieces?

I'm not. We've been discussing this for years.

 

[dviss1]

Well, check out how well Oregon's Oregon healthcare plan covers cancer. The bottom line is they do dictate what to do.


I have been posting about waiting for the VA. That is run by the Government you know.
Check out the wait times in Canada, UK



Most large Business would not save money. They self insure with costs as low as half the price of commercial insurance for their employees. I think it would be wounderful if small employers had a way to join so they could be collectively self insure and save also. That might be the biggest help to more people than anything that could be done. Just need a little help from the Federal government to enable the possibility.

So this list is not facts, it is propaganda.

Typical right wing crap. Don't cherry pick my post and take parts out of context to fit your crappy agenda.

 

[MarAzul]

The EKG is done. I am in fine condition. At least by the EKG.
Now scheduled for Echo Cardiogram in Roseburg 9/7. Then an appointment with a Cardiologist in Eugene 10/25.
I have people trying to find a Cardiologist sooner, so far no luck.
Now if I still had my old insurance I would probably be done with the check up at say, the UCLA medical center.
But I don't have it any longer

 

[SlyPokerDog]

The EKG is done. I am in fine condition. At least by the EKG.
Now scheduled for Echo Cardiogram in Roseburg 9/7. Then an appointment with a Cardiologist in Eugene 10/25.
I have people trying to find a Cardiologist sooner, so far no luck.
Now if I still had my old insurance I would probably be done with the check up at say, the UCLA medical center.
But I don't have it any longer

Wait, you were complaining about having to drive, what was it? 2o miles? 50 miles? But you have no problem going to UCLA?

And I'm glad to hear that you got your test done and have another one schedule reasonably soon.

 

[MarAzul]

Don't cherry pick my post

You are right. I forgot to consider the source.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

The EKG is done. I am in fine condition. At least by the EKG.
Now scheduled for Echo Cardiogram in Roseburg 9/7. Then an appointment with a Cardiologist in Eugene 10/25.
I have people trying to find a Cardiologist sooner, so far no luck.
Now if I still had my old insurance I would probably be done with the check up at say, the UCLA medical center.
But I don't have it any longer

But you and Lanny crack me that fuck up.

Lanny buys a million home in Lake Oswego. Beautiful house. Meanwhile his kidneys are failing from all of the toxic crap he was exposed to in Viet Nam. Goes to dialysis now 3 times a week. Too weak to even BBQ in his own backyard. The VA jerks him around and around. Won't put him on the transplant list for this reason, won't put him the list for that reason, just a giant circle jerk.

And instead of just going out and purchasing insurance he complains about the VA like you do.

I love the hell out of both of you but you two are just weird. You'll both destroy your own health because you don't want to pay for insurance.

 

[MarAzul]

Wait, you were complaining about having to drive, what was it? 2o miles? 50 miles? But you have no problem going to UCLA?

And I'm glad to hear that you got your test done and have another one schedule reasonably soon.

I think you may have been speed reading over your limit Sly. I never complained about driving. I can't go to UCLA now either, no fucking insurance and I know the tab would be at least 25k.
I see your assessment of reasonable and mine are different. To go from July to the end of October to see a cardiologist is a hell of a long time in my view, but at least it is schedule now.

 

[MarAzul]

instead of just going out and purchasing insurance he complains about the VA like you do.

You'll both destroy your own health because you don't want to pay for insurance.

Geez Sly! You just don't read.

Let me save the explainations, I will cut it short as Possible.

I had good insurance
I CAN NOT FUCKING BUY INSURANCE THAT IS WORTH A SHIT.
By law all I can only buy is this worthless Medicare Advantage or Supplement stuff. I can not make any doctor accept the shit!

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I think you may have been speed reading over your limit Sly. I never complained about driving. I can't go to UCLA now either, no fucking insurance and I know the tab would be at least 25k.
I see your assessment of reasonable and mine are different. To go from July to the end of October to see a cardiologist is a hell of a long time in my view, but at least it is schedule now.

Then purchase insurance.

 

[dviss1]

You are right. I forgot to consider the source.

I don't think you ever do...

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Geez Sly! You just don't read.

Let me save the explainations, I will cut it short as Possible.

I had good insurance
I CAN NOT FUCKING BUY INSURANCE THAT IS WORTH A SHIT.
By law all I can only buy is this worthless Medicare Advantage or Supplement stuff. I can not make any doctor accept the shit!

That "shit" is still better than the VA, lol.

 

[MarAzul]

Then purchase insurance.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

No worries, you can call me as a character witness when they convene your death panel.

 

[MarAzul]

That "shit" is still better than the VA, lol.

Good lord!

Moda, you ever hear of them? I had their Medicare Advantage the first year I was buying insurance, but they dropped me out the next year. They don't want to do business in this county.
So I found one more, but there are no Doctors accepting new Medicare patients in that plan.

I think I have posted this about 14 fucking time. I do want you guys to know how fucking wonderful this stuff is you all want.

 

[MarAzul]

No worries, you can call me as a character witness when they convene your death panel.

That's nice.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Let's review Marazul stance on healthcare.

Single payer is bad, unless it's the VA, but the VA sucks.

Insurance good, except it's shit.

Complaining about waiting for an EKG is good, taking $50 out of the wallet to eliminate that wait is bad.

 

[MarAzul]

Let's review Marazul stance on healthcare.

Single payer is bad, unless it's the VA, but the VA sucks.

Insurance good, except it's shit.

Complaining about waiting for an EKG is good, taking $25 out of the wallet to eliminate that wait is bad.

Ha!
Actually that does sum up my current understand of how fucking dumb my younger countryman are. No fucking way to turn you from where you think you want to go.
See no evil, hear no evil, and speak only bullshit!

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Good lord!

Moda, you ever hear of them? I had their Medicare Advantage the first year I was buying insurance, but they dropped me out the next year. They don't want to do business in this county.
So I found one more, but there are no Doctors accepting new Medicare patients in that plan.

I think I have posted this about 14 fucking time. I do want you guys to know how fucking wonderful this stuff is you all want.

http://health.usnews.com/doctors/megan-holland-490619

 

[MarAzul]

Let's review Marazul stance on healthcare.

Single payer is bad, unless it's the VA, but the VA sucks.

Insurance good, except it's shit.

Complaining about waiting for an EKG is good, taking $50 out of the wallet to eliminate that wait is bad.

http://health.usnews.com/doctors/megan-holland-490619

Both of these post combine to prove you are either obtuse or just beyond reach.
Not even going to try to help you see why.

 

[barfo]

Good lord!

Moda, you ever hear of them? I had their Medicare Advantage the first year I was buying insurance, but they dropped me out the next year. They don't want to do business in this county.
So I found one more, but there are no Doctors accepting new Medicare patients in that plan.

I think I have posted this about 14 fucking time. I do want you guys to know how fucking wonderful this stuff is you all want.

Pretty sure that if everyone was on medicare, there would be plenty of doctors that accepted medicare.

As for Moda, I agree they are bad. The waits are terrible and when you get to the front of the line, the beer costs $8.

barfo

 

[andalusian]

As for Moda, I agree they are bad. The waits are terrible and when you get to the front of the line, the beer costs $8.

Top form today, barfo. Top form.