Sounds like Webster is gonna start.... and some thoughts

[hasoos]

LMAO! According to your brilliant logic, Paul pierce is a worst outside shooter than Batum. .366 from behind the arch and .443 FG throughout his career. Batum has outperformed Pierce! HAHAHAHAHAHA

I hear you. There is a big difference between players who actually takea volume of shots, and those who do not. Many games last year, if Batum took more than one or two shots, it was agressive night for him. The facts are, in order to impact the game offensivly, you have to take shots. Joel Pryzbilla shoots a great percentage when he can actually catch the ball 2 inches from the basket. But I wouldn't consider him a good offensive player. EVAR!

 

[Nikolokolus]

LMAO! Webster's shooting in his last year from behind the arch was 38.8%. I do admire your reaching though. How has he done so far in "pre-season"? How has Batum done? You can play ESPN Classic with me all day long, but what's going on now is what determines how you rate the player.

You sound like one of those old Varisty Football players that is still holding onto their glory days of yesteryear.

Actually, no I sound like somebody who knows what he's talking about ... despite my ability to pull statistics "out of my ass."

Martell's a career 37% shooter from distance and a woeful 41% overall, cut that any way you like it, that's pretty mediocre to bad for a shooting specialist.

How I rate Matell is exactly what he is, an inconsistent player drafted too high and somebody who's battle the yips enough times to make me think he's probably going to end up nothing more than decent reserve.

Nic I rate as extremely raw offensively, but for his age and what he already brings in transistion, offensive rebounding, blocks and overall defense I think he has great potential to be a high quality starting defensive wing ...

 

[magnifier661]

I hear you. There is a big difference between players who actually takea volume of shots, and those who do not. Many games last year, if Batum took more than one or two shots, it was agressive night for him. The facts are, in order to impact the game offensivly, you have to take shots. Joel Pryzbilla shoots a great percentage when he can actually catch the ball 2 inches from the basket. But I wouldn't consider him a good offensive player. EVAR!

And that's what I'm saying all along. Tossing silly "per 48 minutes", career averages, rebounds, etc. are a measuring stick, but you can never make a fair assessment unless you watch both players very carefully. Leave that to the coaching staff that watches them play in practice and on the court every day. If they drop the ball, then get someone that knows better. Some of these "pro-Batum" supporters think they hang with him all day long. Kinda funny really.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Oh and psst... I seem to remember Webster shooting 41% for most the year in 07/08. Now anyone with any smarts that year would still tell you Webster didn't do well. The same applies for Batum. He only got 11 minutes a game. Many "pro-batum" posters should argue, it's not the statistical numbers, but what they see on the court.

So when you supporters get back to that type of debate, I will take you all seriously. Until then, you guys can toss those "Stats" out the window.

You accuse me of pulling things out of my ass and yet ...
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/splits?playerId=2795&sYear=2008&sType=1

show me this 41%+ for most of the year crap you're talking about. throw out the one game in october and the one game in april for his splits and he shot exactly one month over 41%.

 

[magnifier661]

Actually, no I sound like somebody who knows what he's talking about ... despite my ability to pull statistics "out of my ass."

Martell's a career 37% shooter from distance and a woeful 41% overall, cut that any way you like it, that's pretty mediocre to bad for a shooting specialist.

How I rate Matell is exactly what he is, an inconsistent player drafted too high and somebody who's battle the yips enough times to make me think he's probably going to end up nothing more than decent reserve.

Nic I rate as extremely raw offensively, but for his age and what he already brings in transistion, offensive rebounding, blocks and overall defense I think he has great potential to be a high quality starting defensive wing ...

So I guess you know more than Nate then huh? Maybe KP should hire you... hehehe... Regardless of those "Stats" that I clearly exposed I.E. Paul Pierce, you are ignoring the simple truth. Pulling stats to support your claim is like using a sharpie to draw a mustache on your lip. Looks like a mustache but ain't the real thing.

 

[Nikolokolus]

So I guess you know more than Nate then huh? Maybe KP should hire you... hehehe... Regardless of those "Stats" that I clearly exposed I.E. Paul Pierce, you are ignoring the simple truth. Pulling stats to support your claim is like using a sharpie to draw a mustache on your lip. Looks like a mustache but ain't the real thing.

Yeah, your much better off using absolutely nothing at all to back up your claims about a player ... I've seen Martell play, and aside from "The Quarter" I've always been left wanting more -- a lot more out of his game.

BTW, Paul Pierce isn't exactly known for being a dead-eye shooter and floor spacer, he's a driver and scorer who makes his living by being able to take people off the bounce and either finish at the rim, draw a foul, hit from foul line extended or at the elbow. Marty and Pierce's games have about as much in common as Brandon and Rudy.

 

[magnifier661]

You accuse me of pulling things out of my ass and yet ...
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/splits?playerId=2795&sYear=2008&sType=1

show me this 41%+ for most of the year crap you're talking about. throw out the one game in october and the one game in april for his splits and he shot exactly one month over 41%.

You must be a new fan then. Because I remembered clearly that Webster was averaging 41% for half the season. Everyone in Blazerville was ecstatic about it, but many "educated" fans were saying he didn't do well. You see, before "Batum", there was Webster. Everyone loved him and wanted him to start over Udoka. Remember that? It happens every year. A new blood comes in and everyone goes "Goo goo" over them. Let's have this conversation later on this season. If Webster looks bad, I will be the first to tell you I'm wrong. If he's much improved, I suspect you won't be the one telling me you're wrong. I can accept that. Until then, keep those "stats" on your fantasy b-ball league.

 

[Nikolokolus]

You must be a new fan then. Because I remembered clearly that Webster was averaging 41% for half the season. Everyone in Blazerville was ecstatic about it, but many "educated" fans were saying he didn't do well. You see, before "Batum", there was Webster. Everyone loved him and wanted him to start over Udoka. Remember that? It happens every year. A new blood comes in and everyone goes "Goo goo" over them. Let's have this conversation later on this season. If Webster looks bad, I will be the first to tell you I'm wrong. If he's much improved, I suspect you won't be the one telling me you're wrong. I can accept that. Until then, keep those "stats" on your fantasy b-ball league.

Well when I get my drivers permit next year I hope to be able to drive to see more games ... Spare me the sanctimonious bullshit.

As for owning up to anything, I hope Martell makes the leap and really owns the position, but since there's been nothing in his past to suggest it I won't be holding my breath.

For my own part, I would have preferred to keep Udoka and his defense. I'm just crazy that way.

 

[magnifier661]

Yeah, your much better off using absolutely nothing at all to back up your claims about a player ... I've seen Martell play, and aside from "The Quarter" I've always been left wanting more -- a lot more out of his game.

BTW, Paul Pierce isn't exactly known for being a dead-eye shooter and floor spacer, he's a driver and scorer who makes his living by being able to take people off the bounce and either finish at the rim, draw a foul, hit from foul line extended or at the elbow. Marty and Pierce's games have about as much in common as Brandon and Rudy.

Now I know you want to be a coach. Tell Nate to lag off Pierce to double others. Hell leave him Wide-open so you can play his "Slashing, Posting and drawing the foul game" I bet he won't be able to look at you with a "Straight Face"

 

[magnifier661]

Well when I get my drivers permit next year I hope to be able to drive to see more games ... Spare me the sanctimonious bullshit.

As for owning up to anything, I hope Martell makes the leap and really owns the position, but since there's been nothing in his past to suggest it I won't be holding my breath.

For my own part, I would have preferred to keep Udoka and his defense. I'm just crazy that way.

Now keep in mind. I'm not a Webster supporter. Just a little FYI. But I get tired of fans hailing a player like Batum, or Sergio before him, or Outlaw before him or Webster before him. Webster was the 6th pick in the draft. A draft where we could of had CP3 or Williams before him. Why Nash did this, I have no clue, but we are stuck with him. I think he was a blown pick, but I want nothing but the best of luck for him. If Batum outplays him and earns the starting nod over Webs, then I support Batum. Regardless, you are being extremely myopic and trying to argue over details that don't have enough data to support.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Now keep in mind. I'm not a Webster supporter. Just a little FYI. But I get tired of fans hailing a player like Batum, or Sergio before him, or Outlaw before him or Webster before him. Webster was the 6th pick in the draft. A draft where we could of had CP3 or Williams before him. Why Nash did this, I have no clue, but we are stuck with him. I think he was a blown pick, but I want nothing but the best of luck for him. If Batum outplays him and earns the starting nod over Webs, then I support Batum. Regardless, you are being extremely myopic and trying to argue over details that don't have enough data to support.

Round and round we go ... who's being myopic? I merely pointed out that Martell isn't the dead-eye shooter that some were suggesting and next thing I know "I'm pulling things out of my ass" and "I must be a new fan."

Nic's value as a player for me isn't his offensive game it's his good defensive game complimented by what has been to date a very average offensive game, I contrasted this with Martell's (historically) very mediocre to average offensive game to go along with a very average defensive game. That's it, nothing more, take that however you like.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Now I know you want to be a coach. Tell Nate to lag off Pierce to double others. Hell leave him Wide-open so you can play his "Slashing, Posting and drawing the foul game" I bet he won't be able to look at you with a "Straight Face"

Pierce is a good 3 point shooter for a scorer (and he's gotten better consistently throughout his career, so of course he's a better 3 point shooter than Nicolas). But If you want to think that I'm saying Nic is a better offensive player than Pierce, then that's on you, I was only pointing out that he's more of a scorer than a shooter, people have to sag off of him because he will drive by somebody on his way to the hoop if they play him close.

If Martell had Pierce's skillset AND the ability to shoot 38% from the arc he'd be a great player, but he's pretty much only good at spotting up for jumpers (so far) which makes him look not so hot.

 

[magnifier661]

Round and round we go ... who's being myopic? I merely pointed out that Martell isn't the dead-eye shooter that some were suggesting and next thing I know "I'm pulling things out of my ass" and "I must be a new fan."

Nic's value as a player for me isn't his offensive game it's his good defensive game complimented by what has been to date a very average offensive game, I contrasted this with Martell's (historically) very mediocre to average offensive game to go along with a very average defensive game. That's it, nothing more, take that however you like.

Now see I like debating like this much better. I guess my whole argument or debate all along is "Webster and Batum" are Blazers. Since we are all "Blazer Fans", why can't we be happy with the players that "so far" earned the starting nod? If Batum gets the starting nod, then I would be completely and totally supportive of him as well.

I stopped being a fan of an individual since Sheed Wallace. Now I am a fan of the entire team. Because being a fan of the team, instead of the player has such a greater reward. Seriously, when I watch the game now, I don't watch a specific player. I don't get mad if someone has the ball over the "star player" I'm all "Goo Goo" over.

So I don't know why I started bashing at you. Maybe it was a little to do with the bashing on Webster. Can we still be friends?

 

[STOMP]

yep and stomp ran away

webster or batum


webster and miller

or

blake and batum



thats the way i see it

sorry that I occasionally have a life. Sorry that I believe in facts over bluster. I'm sorry for all of us that you can't read.

If I'm down by 3 with seconds to go, barring foul trouble or injury neither Batum or Martell is in the game. Those are poor options compared to Rudy, Blake, Roy, and Outlaw. Hell I'd probably rather have LaMarcus take the shot as he has hit game winners. Martell has battled the yips throughout his career and those don't go away with the game on the line... why do you think Nate refuses to even play him in crunch time? Nic also hasn't been trusted with crunch time minutes in PDX but I can recall him airballing a 3 to win a game for France this summer. Basically I'm equally comfortable with either of them taking such a shot... flip a coin and cross your fingers that they're able to draw iron.

now please be so kind as to answer my questions... (1) why don't you believe in facts? (2) remind me of Martell's last clutch shot

STOMP

 

[hasoos]

DEAL COMING SOON!

 

[MIXUM]

1. i believe in what i see. stats are stats. webby over batum. the question i asked you was never answered. last shot with ball in hands... webster or batum?

2. martell was out all last year so i dont remember. judging from pre season... webster should start.

 

[BrianFromWA]

sorry that I occasionally have a life. Sorry that I believe in facts over bluster. I'm sorry for all of us that you can't read.

If I'm down by 3 with seconds to go, barring foul trouble or injury neither Batum or Martell is in the game. Those are poor options compared to Rudy, Blake, Roy, and Outlaw. Hell I'd probably rather have LaMarcus take the shot as he has hit game winners. Martell has battled the yips throughout his career and those don't go away with the game on the line... why do you think Nate refuses to even play him in crunch time? Nic also hasn't been trusted with crunch time minutes in PDX but I can recall him airballing a 3 to win a game for France this summer. Basically I'm equally comfortable with either of them taking such a shot... flip a coin and cross your fingers that they're able to draw iron.

now please be so kind as to answer my questions... (1) why don't you believe in facts? (2) remind me of Martell's last clutch shot

STOMP

I'm late to this game, and generally don't have anything to add to the thread that others haven't said. Most know that I'm a Martell Believer, but I understand that he hasn't proven anything yet, and if he doesn't soon he'll be left behind.
But I don't quite understand (maybe I missed it) where the "clutchness" aspect came up. I mean, in the situation talked about earlier (down 3, last shot, etc.) I think everyone would have Roy take the shot, with maybe Rudy or Blake or Travis as a much poorer second/3rd option. But Roy was 4th on the team (not counting Shavlik's 1/1) in 3pt% last year, and 6th the year before. But I'd rather Roy take that shot than, say, Blake, James Jones, Jack, Webster etc. What does 3pt% (or FG% in particular) have to do with clutchness or the yips? Blake, and Outlaw, and Jack before them, hit pretty big momentum-changing shots over the last couple of years, but I'm not sure I'd say they are on the same level as Roy. (Or Pierce, for that matter ).

As far as Nate's "crunch time" lineup, there is a lot of debate about who should've and shouldn't have been in those lineups last year. I'm not sure that "he's playing, so he's obviously more clutch/less yippy" is a solid, factual, argument in this respect--though you may well be right.

 

[STOMP]

1. i believe in what i see. stats are stats. webby over batum. the question i asked you was never answered. last shot with ball in hands... webster or batum?

whats hard to understand about both options being equally poor? If I had to even put one of them in with the game on the line it would be based on how they'd done that game... certainly the play wouldn't be drawn up for them.

2. martell was out all last year so i dont remember. judging from pre season... webster should start.

it was a rhetorical question... the reason you can't recall one is because there isn't one to remember.

preseason results mean next to nothing. Judging from games that actually do matter, Batum should start for all the reasons that have been stated umpteen times prior. I understand you feel differently... oh well.

STOMP

 

[MIXUM]

in all honesty... sounds like we have much bigger issues

oden and miller not starting

webster and batum are on the back burner... i think we can agree on that

 

[STOMP]

in all honesty... sounds like we have much bigger issues

oden and miller not starting

webster and batum are on the back burner... i think we can agree on that

maybe...

I'm much less concerned with who starts games compared to who plays starter type minutes (30-ish) and to a lesser extent, who finishes games. If Greg and Andre aren't starting but are producing as I expect them to and playing 28-35 MPG, I really doubt I'll be complaining about their roles.

STOMP