Tank for Wembanyama

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
But if we want to get a needle mover don't we need to give that NYK pick to Chicago so we can open up future ones to give?
 
blazerkor said:
I like that people in here point to OKC as an example of a youth rebuild working... those dudes are maybe an 8 seed and maybe still in the lotto.
Click to expand...
SGA will be 25 next year and is a lock to make an All NBA team this year, likely 1st team. Their other 4 starters from this season will average being 22 next year and to that they'll add 21 year old Chet Holmgren. Their future is really bright.

People don't trust Joe to put a competent team around Dame but trust him to start a much more dicey process. Kind of weird.
Click to expand...
It's not that people don't trust Joe to build a contender around Dame, they don't think it's possible no matter who is the GM. Putting together a contender is not easy. Putting together a contender capped out and with a short timeline is near impossible. It would be weird for someone else to skip past this obvious conundrum, but every day you find a way.

Please provide examples of the supposed easy way other GMs in similar situations have turned bad teams into insta-contenders. The two that spring to mind for me are the Celtics (when they added Bird) and the Spurs (when they added Duncan and welcomed Robinson back from injury).

STOMP
 
STOMP said:
SGA will be 25 next year and is a lock to make an All NBA team this year, likely 1st team. Their other 4 starters from this season will average being 22 next year and to that they'll add 21 year old Chet Holmgren. Their future is really bright.


It's not that people don't trust Joe to build a contender around Dame, they don't think it's possible no matter who is the GM. Putting together a contender is not easy. Putting together a contender capped out and with a short timeline is near impossible. It would be weird for someone else to skip past this obvious conundrum, but every day you find a way.

Please provide examples of the supposed easy way other GMs in similar situations have turned bad teams into insta-contenders. The two that spring to mind for me are the Celtics (when they added Bird) and the Spurs (when they added Duncan and welcomed Robinson back from injury).

STOMP
Click to expand...
I think Joe has a great opportunity to make a name for himself if he can get it done, or come close. GM's have to start somewhere. Once they get the job, it's on them to prove themselves. There is some luck that's involved ( lotto pick landing right). But the hard work, Joe and his Staff have done , should pay off. I just have a feeling Joe's gonna get it done.
 
blazerkor said:
I like that people in here point to OKC as an example of a youth rebuild working... those dudes are maybe an 8 seed and maybe still in the lotto. That's the good example but then you have Houston and Detroit who have been in the tank for three or more seasons with no guarantee that they won't be in it again next season. I mean you have the Magic who look like they might have a team that might be able to maybe compete for a play-in spot next season and with the exception of two gentlemans' sweeps have basically been in youth rebuild mode for a fucking decade.

People don't trust Joe to put a competent team around Dame but trust him to start a much more dicey process. Kind of weird.
Click to expand...
And both Orlando and OKC got lucky. SGA turned into a 30+ PPG scorer and Orlando got the 1-seed, suckered Chicago into Vucevic, and got insanely good value with Franz at 8 (there's been some really bad 8th picks).

Acting as though a youth movement is guaranteed to be better than if we upgraded the roster now has never made sense to me.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
As more and more freshmen apply for the draft, I think the NY pick looks better and better. These young players will take n extra year to help a team, but a smart GM will know the value. Look at Amari Bailey who is projected to go at 52. That kid has a high ceiling IMO. I think trading that pick has more value this year than giving it to Chicago just so we can use next year's pick in a trade.

https://www.tankathon.com/mock_draft
Click to expand...
It's always made more sense to me to turn that CHI 1st into a top 8 protection that then turns into 2nd round picks (maybe the five 2nds from the GP2 trade).
 
Look at the Bucks. Giannis said get me help and they traded a LOT for non-All Star (that season) Jrue Holiday and one alley oop later, won the title. We just have to find the right guy in trade.
 
KingSpeed said:
Look at the Bucks. Giannis said get me help and they traded a LOT for non-All Star (that season) Jrue Holiday and one alley oop later, won the title. We just have to find the right guy in trade.
Click to expand...

There is a gulf between Dame and Giannis and they already had Middleton. Not remotely similar.
 
AngryFan said:
There is a gulf between Dame and Giannis and they already had Middleton. Not remotely similar.
Click to expand...
There's a difference, but it ain't a gulf. You can doubt Dame all you want. But if he can get some players the quality of what Giannis got around him, Dame will lead the team to the Trophy.
 
tykendo said:
There's a difference, but it ain't a gulf. You can doubt Dame all you want. But if he can get some players the quality of what Giannis got around him, Dame will lead the team to the Trophy.
Click to expand...
You're right. There isn't a gulf. There's a galaxy between Dame and Giannis defensively.
 
tykendo said:
There's a difference, but it ain't a gulf. You can doubt Dame all you want. But if he can get some players the quality of what Giannis got around him, Dame will lead the team to the Trophy.
Click to expand...

You're just wrong. Giannis brings elite rebounding and defense while also being harder to shutdown with a double team.
 
Natebishop3 said:
You're right. There isn't a gulf. There's a galaxy between Dame and Giannis defensively.
Click to expand...
Right lol. We shouldn’t be comparing dame’s situation to the buck’s situation. We need to be looking more at how the warriors did it with curry. They did it through the draft. They prioritized two way players through draft like Thompson, Barnes, and green. Then they made some great trade and signings to surround that core with. That is the path we need to take and should’ve taken a long time ago when dame was still young. I don’t want to overpay for vets
 
AngryFan said:
You're just wrong. Giannis brings elite rebounding and defense while also being harder to shutdown with a double team.
Click to expand...

Yup. Dame and Giannis might be close offensively, but there's more to the game than just scoring.
 
BonesJones said:
A ton of rebuilds have had nothing but time and never gotten off the ground. Getting a top 10 player that wants to be in Portland is extremely difficult. Most teams need years to have enough chances at draft and development to get obtain one. These who want to trade Dame to find a window with more time overestimate the chances of finding another Dame-caliber player in that span. And even if that's accomplished, who's to say that won't be a team that makes a couple 2nd rounds and a WCF and that's all?

Youth can be good. This team is built to improve by internal development for the first time in ages. They have more assets to swing a big win-now trade than they've had in maybe a decade. That "alternative" isn't as bad as it's made out to be.
Click to expand...
The only player that can actually push the team to the next level is Sharpe. Simons is likely already near his ceiling, especially if he keep playing next to dame. Grant is in his prime with no more development in sight. Nurk is injury prone. Our lottery pick could if we hit the right one. Watford is awful defensively and likely will be the rest of his career. Who else is gonna improve enough that’s meaningful for the team? Walker? Keon? Little? Mays? Literally only Sharpe and the lottery pick can have a development that’s significant to the team. And that’s still not enough considering the odd fit that our core already has
 
damianlillard said:
The only player that can actually push the team to the next level is Sharpe. Simons is likely already near his ceiling, especially if he keep playing next to dame. Grant is in his prime with no more development in sight. Nurk is injury prone. Our lottery pick could if we hit the right one. Watford is awful defensively and likely will be the rest of his career. Who else is gonna improve enough that’s meaningful for the team? Walker? Keon? Little? Mays? Literally only Sharpe and the lottery pick can have a development that’s significant to the team. And that’s still not enough considering the odd fit that our core already has
Click to expand...
Walker has upside
 
KingSpeed said:
Look at the Bucks. Giannis said get me help and they traded a LOT for non-All Star (that season) Jrue Holiday and one alley oop later, won the title. We just have to find the right guy in trade.
Click to expand...
Guy??? Unless we're talking an absolute dominant superstar (see thread title), Portland is much more then a guy away. In regards to comparing them to the Bucks, no one has even mentioned Brook Lopez. This past season Splash Mountain spread the court with nearly 2 threes a game at a 37% clip and on the other end is in the conversation for DPOY blocking 2.5 shots a game... he's been a monster.

It's stunning to me that following another dreadful year posters think the team is anywhere close to contending. For them to even be in the conversation next year they'll need to win the lotto, have Shaedon take giant steps forward, pull off a tremendous trade for Ant or Dame & then skate through the season injury free.

STOMP
 
wizenheimer said:
another factor is that the 23rd pick could be about a 4-year/13.5M rookie-scale contract starting next season. A chance at a prospect on a 3.3M/year deal is a worthwhile gamble. Also, if they choose right the Blazers would have a player they control for the next 7 seasons

that's some significant value to give up, especially for a team that has wasted 6 first round draft picks since 2016 and still owes Chicago a pick
Click to expand...
I think the suggestion was to give it to Chicago to get our pick back, so we wouldn't still owe Chicago a pick.
 
RR7 said:
I think the suggestion was to give it to Chicago to get our pick back, so we wouldn't still owe Chicago a pick.
Click to expand...

yeah, I understand that. I'm just saying that pick has enough value that it might be a mistake to just give it to Chicago on speculation.

If Portland has a decent trade lined up that needs some of their future picks unencumbered then sure, use the pick to escape that dumb obligation to the Bulls. But if no trade is on the clock, I'd wonder if the most value would be in having a player on a cheap rookie scale contract. Of course, a 23rd pick is pretty speculative in and of itself....so what do I know
 
RR7 said:
I think the suggestion was to give it to Chicago to get our pick back, so we wouldn't still owe Chicago a pick.
Click to expand...
If we do fulfill our obligation to Chicago it will be interesting to see how Joe does that. I think the ideas being floated around are this one (the 23rd pick in this draft), 5 second rounders which if it could be done would be fantastic (heavy emphasis on fantasy) and just taking the protections off of the pick for next year's draft by sending the Bulls a protected second or some cash (this has been the going rate for a long time to guarantee a team a pick that isn't even guaranteed to ever convey, in order to free up your future picks).
 
wizenheimer said:
yeah, I understand that. I'm just saying that pick has enough value that it might be a mistake to just give it to Chicago on speculation.

If Portland has a decent trade lined up that needs some of their future picks unencumbered then sure, use the pick to escape that dumb obligation to the Bulls. But if no trade is on the clock, I'd wonder if the most value would be in having a player on a cheap rookie scale contract. Of course, a 23rd pick is pretty speculative in and of itself....so what do I know
Click to expand...
Gotcha. I might have read your post wrong!
 
STOMP said:
Guy??? Unless we're talking an absolute dominant superstar (see thread title), Portland is much more then a guy away. In regards to comparing them to the Bucks, no one has even mentioned Brook Lopez. This past season Splash Mountain spread the court with nearly 2 threes a game at a 37% clip and on the other end is in the conversation for DPOY blocking 2.5 shots a game... he's been a monster.

It's stunning to me that following another dreadful year posters think the team is anywhere close to contending. For them to even be in the conversation next year they'll need to win the lotto, have Shaedon take giant steps forward, pull off a tremendous trade for Ant or Dame & then skate through the season injury free.

STOMP
Click to expand...
As built now, your right. But lets see what happens in the Lottery, Trades, and Free Agency before going all doom and gloom. The Blazers do need luck in the Lottery to land the right to draft Wemby. Joe & his Staff need to make quality trades, and sign impactful free agents to bolster bench. Obviously they need to stay healthy. That's every team's need. But it's all possible. Not Mission Impossible .
 
tykendo said:
As built now, your right. But lets see what happens in the Lottery, Trades, and Free Agency before going all doom and gloom. The Blazers do need luck in the Lottery to land the right to draft Wemby. Joe & his Staff need to make quality trades, and sign impactful free agents to bolster bench. Obviously they need to stay healthy. That's every team's need. But it's all possible. Not Mission Impossible .
Click to expand...
Doom and gloom? How about being realistic of whats what here? This past season with Dame balling out they won 33 games. The year prior without Dame they won 27. They've established that they are not good and I'm dubious that other GMs are prioritizing trading for Portland's talent outside Dame & Shaedon. I laid out a rose glasses special view where they could contend next year with what would need to happen in the Lottery, trades & Shaedon progressing... I didn't discuss Free Agency because they're capped out and unlikely to land someone who could impact them. In the rosiest of scenarios like I laid out prior, Portland would need to stay extra healthy as the bench lacks quality and depth. Not Mission Impossible, it's mission win the lotto which they've a 10.5% shot at. Failing that, who do you move? Dame or Shaedon?

STOMP
 
julius said:
it seems people confuse being smart about not paying the repeater tax with penny pinching. As if people don't realize the massive penalties the team would pay if they had stayed above the repeated offended threshold.

  • $0-5MM above tax line: $2.50 per dollar (up to $12.5MM).
  • $5-10MM above tax line: $2.75 per dollar (up to $13.75MM).
  • $10-15MM above tax line: $3.50 per dollar (up to $17.5MM).
  • $15-20MM above tax line: $4.25 per dollar (up to $21.25MM).
Considering how bad the team was, it's a no brainer as to why they'd want to stay out of it.
Click to expand...
We will find out this summer whether current ownership is willing to pay what it would take to win. If they don't now they never will.
 
Fez Forthright said:
Landing the #1 pick would all but guarantee that we go young IMO.

Build around Sharpe and Wemby.

Easy decision. Neil made it impossible to build around Dame.
Click to expand...
Getting Wemby may be the only outcome that would make it possible to make a trade this summer that would build a contender around Dame and Shaedon.
 
BBert said:
Getting Wemby may be the only outcome that would make it possible to make a trade this summer that would build a contender around Dame and Shaedon.
Click to expand...

You don’t trade the pick - period.

Wemby is generational. Once in a lifetime type of prospect.
 
Fez Forthright said:
You don’t trade the pick - period.

Wemby is generational. Once in a lifetime type of prospect.
Click to expand...
I think the point was that it would take Wemby to get back someone who would make the Blazers contenders, not that trading Wemby would be a good idea.
Implying that trading anything less than Wemby wouldn’t be worth it to the Trail Blazers because of the return.
 
Hey who won the season win predictions thread?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)

Featured content

Back
Top