Science Tax Cut Poll

[bodyman5000 and 1]

I hate that we're just continuing the trend...

If you (Congress) wants to spend, tax the shit out of people to pay for it. If you don't want to tax people so you can look good, don't spend what you don't have.

We have a 20+Trillion credit card balance lined up, and the interest on it is basically what we spend on the DoD and half of what we spend on Medicare/Medicaid overruns. I hate that we can't simplify the tax code, remove the "pay people to be here" (I understand if you're below a bracket and, with deductions, don't have to pay any taxes. I don't agree that if you, for instance, paid $1000 in taxes and have 2 children that the credits make it that the gov't owes you $1000 back. A refund of taxes paid is one thing. Paying a citizen to be here is something completely different.

And for the record, if you believe the sites, I'll have a reduction of between $4k (with the house) and $6k (Senate version) on mine. So it's not like I'm getting hosed and hate the bill.

We ain't got shit for SALT other than property taxes and some sales tax. I might get more back, will wait and see

 

[barfo]

I don't agree that if you, for instance, paid $1000 in taxes and have 2 children that the credits make it that the gov't owes you $1000 back. A refund of taxes paid is one thing. Paying a citizen to be here is something completely different.) If you want to incentivize/de-incentivize things like adoptions or private school education or small business ownership or higher education or whatever, do it outside of the tax laws.

I like your idea of doing the incentives outside of tax law, it would be a lot more straightforward. If we want to pay people for having kids or whatever, just send them a check, don't complicate the tax laws.

However... I don't see how that's any less 'paying someone to be here'. If you get $1000 from the IRS, or get $1000 from the Payments-to-people-with-kids Agency, it's still $1000 from the government to you.

barfo

 

[MARIS61]

Oh, I do so love polls.

How do you feel about the Republican tax cut plan, which looks at this moment like it will pass?

barfo

There is no Republican tax plan.

There’s a House plan and a Senate plan.

They will be combined to create a new tax plan. The Swamp Rat tax plan.

The House and Senate are comprised almost entirely by the same scumbags on both sides who have been there for decades.

About 1/3 of the current Congress has been there since before Reagan changed the tax code. Because morons always vote for incumbents.

Dems Reps want it passed too and have intentionally helped it along by simply sitting out the entire debate. They think this will give them deniability next election.

Since we still have no idea what the final plan will be this poll is premature.

 

[barfo]

There is no Republican tax plan.

There’s a House plan and a Senate plan.

They will be combined to create a new tax plan. The Swamp Rat tax plan.

The House and Senate are comprised almost entirely by the same scumbags on both sides who have been there for decades.

About 1/3 of the current Congress has been there since before Reagan changed the tax code. Because morons always vote for incumbents.

Dems Reps want it passed too and have intentionally helped it along by simply sitting out the entire debate. They think this will give them deniability next election.

Since we still have no idea what the final plan will be this poll is premature.

How do you reconcile your love of Trump with his love of the Swamp Rat tax plan?

barfo

 

[BrianFromWA]

I like your idea of doing the incentives outside of tax law, it would be a lot more straightforward. If we want to pay people for having kids or whatever, just send them a check, don't complicate the tax laws.

However... I don't see how that's any less 'paying someone to be here'. If you get $1000 from the IRS, or get $1000 from the Payments-to-people-with-kids Agency, it's still $1000 from the government to you.

barfo

If you get 1000 from the IRS, you can spend it on an iphone or credit card repayments or whatever. If you get 1000 in WIC (which I have no problem expanding) or student loan repayment grants or whatever , I as the taxpayer and the responsible gov't official know that it's going to what the government wants to incentivize or fund. Maybe that frees up cash for you to buy an iphone or whatever, but the intent's being met.

 

[barfo]

If you get 1000 from the IRS, you can spend it on an iphone or credit card repayments or whatever. If you get 1000 in WIC (which I have no problem expanding) or student loan repayment grants or whatever , I as the taxpayer and the responsible gov't official know that it's going to what the government wants to incentivize or fund. Maybe that frees up cash for you to buy an iphone or whatever, but the intent's being met.

Ok, now I get your point. I too am generally in favor of providing services or indirect payments rather than cash. Although that does usually involve more overhead ("big government").

barfo

 

[BrianFromWA]

Ok, now I get your point. I too am generally in favor of providing services or indirect payments rather than cash. Although that does usually involve more overhead ("big government").

barfo

In my ideal, it would be "more gov't", but actually less overhead (done more at the small-gov't level). When I was on WIC and unemployment for a month and had to go to the case worker in my town I had a much different (and better) customer service experience than when I dial up the government-wide VA hotline or have issues with my military paycheck. Sure, there's a DMV-esque element to it, but that's waaaaaay better than the VA, and how I imagine Medicare/other nationwide health stuff works.

 

[MARIS61]

How do you reconcile your love of Trump with his love of the Swamp Rat tax plan?

barfo

Haven't seen it yet, but he's already been able to drastically change it for the better from the Ryan Tax Plan, which is a another major victory for Trump supporters.

Frankly, he's already had the most successful first year in office of ANY US President in my lifetime.

And the first US President by far to keep so many campaign promises.

2018 in America is going to be HUGE!

 

[MARIS61]

If you get 1000 from the IRS, you can spend it on an iphone or credit card repayments or whatever. If you get 1000 in WIC (which I have no problem expanding) or student loan repayment grants or whatever , I as the taxpayer and the responsible gov't official know that it's going to what the government wants to incentivize or fund. Maybe that frees up cash for you to buy an iphone or whatever, but the intent's being met.

Not against public assistance for all needy American Citizens (people unable to work for a living who need food, clothing and shelter), but Oregon Trail Card users often buy food to trade with their pot dealer or sell to friends for cash for gas money...there's always going to be a way around government making our decisions for us even when they give us tax dollars. Which is a good thing, called Freedom of Choice. No Real American should have to forfeit Constitutional Freedoms in order to receive assistance from their fellow Americans

I am for drastically tightening the process to qualify for aid, then paying for the aid with as little overhead/bureaucracy as possible.

College loans are no different than car loans. I see no difference between a Starbucks worker with a Masters in Art History who owes $110,000 on student loans and a Starbucks worker who owes $100,000 on a BMW. They are both buried in debt because they made stupidly frivolous and selfish decisions.

Why should I pay their debts for them? Do I get to drive the beamer? Do I get to quit work for 8 years and hang out with a bunch of fratboys partying all the time?

They are not needy Americans, they are needless Americans.

 

[barfo]

2018 in America is going to be HUGE!

Oh, we agree about that.

barfo

 

[MarAzul]

College loans are no different than car loans.

Oh, I am afraid I can not agree. Government college loans enable the cost of college to rise faster than inflation and way faster that the value of the product. We have way too many people indebted with nothing to show for it. Degrees that can not result in income to repay the loan should never be made.

 

[SportsAndWhine]

Oh, we agree about that.

barfo

Colonialism Part Deux!

 

[stampedehero]

So my Pagan Rastafarian cult with one member is going to get a tax break?

Can I join? I could start your branch in NJ.

 

[dviss1]

FUCK YOU DONALD TRUMP AND ALL OF YOU GODDAMN REPUBLICANS WHO VOTED FOR THIS SHIT.

Depending on how much I referee, I make $44K. As a family of two my son is eligible for SCHIP which saves me so much on his inhalers (around $220 a month JUST for meds).

Now because of this FOUL bill, they CUT my son's healthcare COMPLETELY, and give me what $150 per month as a "tax break" (yeah fucking right). So this Tax break will be spent on what??

FUCKING HEALTHCARE....

And I hope that I can add him to my plan even though open enrollment ended on the 15th..... This is some BULLSHIT.

 

[dviss1]

Also, simultaneously cutting SCHIP to give the top .5% $194K per year is

FUCKING SHAMEFUL.

 

[Strenuus]

FUCK YOU DONALD TRUMP AND ALL OF YOU GODDAMN REPUBLICANS WHO VOTED FOR THIS SHIT.

Depending on how much I referee, I make $44K. As a family of two my son is eligible for SCHIP which saves me so much on his inhalers (around $220 a month JUST for meds).

Now because of this FOUL bill, they CUT my son's healthcare COMPLETELY, and give me what $150 per month as a "tax break" (yeah fucking right). So this Tax break will be spent on what??

FUCKING HEALTHCARE....

And I hope that I can add him to my plan even though open enrollment ended on the 15th..... This is some BULLSHIT.

We have a person in a place (I will never call him that word, he doesn't deserve it) who cares about nothing but the people who coddle him.

We mean nothing to him. Never have, never will. We will probably never have a worse person in that place for as long as we live.

 

[dviss1]

We have a person in a place (I will never call him that word, he doesn't deserve it) who cares about nothing but the people who coddle him.

We mean nothing to him. Never have, never will. We will probably never have a worse person in that place for as long as we live.

THIS IS WHY I VOTED FOR KATE BROWN.

She's protecting my son's healthcare from the SCUM that would rather give those funds to his own rich family who doesn't need it and didn't ask for it.

Oregon Will Continue CHIP Coverage, Even If It Means A Budget Shortfall

For years the CHIP program has enjoyed bipartisan federal support, but during the battle over the Affordable Care Act, the deadline to fund it expired.

Now Gov. Kate Brown has asked the Oregon Health Authority to find the money to keep CHIP going — at least until April — even if that creates a budget shortfall.

That means 80,000 children and 1,700 pregnant women at risk of losing coverage will keep it. That’s equivalent to the population of Bend.

“These kids are from vulnerable families and they rely on CHIP to pay for vital medical care,” said Patrick Allen, Director of the Oregon Health Authority. “It would be a tragedy for them to lose coverage or have an interruption in coverage because Congress has failed to act.”

There’s hope Congress may still pass funding for CHIP. It covers children from low- and middle-income families whose parents make too much to qualify for Medicaid but who struggle to buy health insurance.

“In the months to come, dozens of other states will be severely impacted if Congress does not act to authorize funding for CHIP,” said Gov. Brown in a letter to the Oregon Health Authority.

“As Governor, I am reaching out to my counterparts in other states to work together and urge Congress to turn their attention to the health care needs of our nation’s children.”

CHIP means about 98 percent of Oregon’s children have health coverage.

 

[Strenuus]

THIS IS WHY I VOTED FOR KATE BROWN.

She's protecting my son's healthcare from the SCUM that would rather give those funds to his own rich family who doesn't need it and didn't ask for it.

Oregon Will Continue CHIP Coverage, Even If It Means A Budget Shortfall

For years the CHIP program has enjoyed bipartisan federal support, but during the battle over the Affordable Care Act, the deadline to fund it expired.

Now Gov. Kate Brown has asked the Oregon Health Authority to find the money to keep CHIP going — at least until April — even if that creates a budget shortfall.

That means 80,000 children and 1,700 pregnant women at risk of losing coverage will keep it. That’s equivalent to the population of Bend.

“These kids are from vulnerable families and they rely on CHIP to pay for vital medical care,” said Patrick Allen, Director of the Oregon Health Authority. “It would be a tragedy for them to lose coverage or have an interruption in coverage because Congress has failed to act.”

There’s hope Congress may still pass funding for CHIP. It covers children from low- and middle-income families whose parents make too much to qualify for Medicaid but who struggle to buy health insurance.

“In the months to come, dozens of other states will be severely impacted if Congress does not act to authorize funding for CHIP,” said Gov. Brown in a letter to the Oregon Health Authority.

“As Governor, I am reaching out to my counterparts in other states to work together and urge Congress to turn their attention to the health care needs of our nation’s children.”

CHIP means about 98 percent of Oregon’s children have health coverage.

GOOD!

AT LEAST SOMEONE THINKS OF THE CHILDREN!

 

[dviss1]

Republicans keep doing shit like this and they'll NEVER get my vote. They don't care about my vote anyway. They'd rather BAR me from voting.

Because when black people vote, ESPECIALLY our women, y'all don't get to put your PEDOPHILES in office. Now IMAGINE what's gonna happen if they don't get to restrict us from voting in 2018.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

They should tax kids, not a tax credit.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Republicans keep doing shit like this and they'll NEVER get my vote. They don't care about my vote anyway. They'd rather BAR me from voting.

Because when black people vote, ESPECIALLY our women, y'all don't get to put your PEDOPHILES in office. Now IMAGINE what's gonna happen if they don't get to restrict us from voting in 2018.

He barely won.

According to the last tax calculator I saw online the wife and I will save 5500 bucks per year. That can't be true but I'm sure we'll save.

I'm tired of paying 25 grand a year or whatever the fuck it is now.

After 8 years when Trump is out of office you dems can fix it for me if it goes back up.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Using the Washington Post calculator it estimates my wife and I will get a $400 tax break. If it meant the deficit and debt don't balloon ever higher and higher with no end in sight, then I'd say keep the fucking money.

 

[The Professional Fan]

Using the Washington Post calculator it estimates my wife and I will get a $400 tax break. If it meant the deficit and debt don't balloon ever higher and higher with no end in sight, then I'd say keep the fucking money.

It's a temporary tax cut for us. Permanent for corporations. It's a smoke screen. Middle class will see a small tax break for a few years and then the deficit will balloon and we'll have to make up for it at some point. Throwing us a small, temporary bone to distract us while the rich get much, much richer. It's all fake and heartless. Fuck all the GOP.

 

[dviss1]

He barely won.

According to the last tax calculator I saw online the wife and I will save 5500 bucks per year. That can't be true but I'm sure we'll save.

I'm tired of paying 25 grand a year or whatever the fuck it is now.

After 8 years when Trump is out of office you dems can fix it for me if it goes back up.

Link? I think that's a load of crap.

 

[dviss1]

He barely won.

He barely won because of white people. Take it how you want to but the white folk voted for the racist, homophobic, pedophile.

 

[dviss1]

According to the last tax calculator I saw online the wife and I will save 5500 bucks per year. That can't be true but I'm sure we'll save.

I'm tired of paying 25 grand a year or whatever the fuck it is now.

After 8 years when Trump is out of office you dems can fix it for me if it goes back up.

Also, I'm not a damn Dem... Fuck them. I need more.

2nd, what does it say here with regard to you getting 5500 per.

This is the most accurate calculator:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/17/upshot/tax-calculator.html

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Also, I'm not a damn Dem... Fuck them. I need more.

2nd, what does it say here with regard to you getting 5500 per.

This is the most accurate calculator:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/17/upshot/tax-calculator.html

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Whoops did it wrong. Picked a lower income than we make together.

Also, I'm not a damn Dem... Fuck them. I need more.

2nd, what does it say here with regard to you getting 5500 per.

This is the most accurate calculator:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/17/upshot/tax-calculator.html

I should have said you libs. My bad, problem is they're all Democrats so you get lumped in with that team. Sorry

 

[dviss1]

Whoops did it wrong. Picked a lower income than we make together.View attachment 17542

I should have said you libs. My bad, problem is they're all Democrats so you get lumped in with that team. Sorry

I'm a BernieCrat. So here's the deal:

I'll make a little less than 50K next year. I'm getting a $1,160 cut. That' doesn't do shit for me. It'll all be spent.

Here's what I'm not ok with:

1. Gives 83% of the tax cuts to the richest 1% by 2027. The richest 1% of taxpayers will get one-fifth (21%) of the tax cuts in 2018, but that grows to 83% by 2027. Their tax cut will average $51,000 in 2018; the bottom 60% of taxpayers will get about a dollar day. [Tax Policy Center (TPC)]
2. Raises taxes on 92 million middle-class families by 2027 to pay for tax breaks for the wealthy and corporations. That is more than one-half (57%) of all households making less than $200,000 a year. 69 million households making less than $100,000 a year would also pay more in taxes after the temporary tax cuts for individuals expire. [TPC]
3. Mandates automatic Medicare cuts of at least $25 billion in 2018 and $400 billion over 10 years. In effect, seniors will pay for tax breaks for corporations and the wealthy as automatic spending cuts are triggered because the tax cuts add $1.5 trillion to the national debt. Automatic cuts altogether will total $136 billion in 2018 and include reductions in agriculture subsidies, student loans, military retirement and more. [Congressional Budget Office (CBO)]
4. Increases health care premiums and leaves 13 million families without health coverage, to raise revenue for tax breaks that mostly benefit the wealthy and corporations.

• The plan repeals a key part of the Affordable Care Act: the requirement for individuals to have health coverage if they can afford it. That makes $314 billionavailable for tax cuts. [Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT)]
• This will lead to 13 million more people being uninsured and cause a 10% increase in health insurance premiums for people getting insured on the individual market. [CBO]

1. Provides a corporate tax rate cut of $1.4 trillion and makes those cuts permanent, but makes tax cuts for individuals and families temporary. [JCT]

• The corporate tax rate is slashed from 35% to 21%, and the corporate Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) is eliminated.
• The $1.4 trillion corporate-tax-rate cut is nearly equal to the $1.5 trillion by which the whole tax plan increases the national debt, and to the $1.5 trillion cut the Republican budget makes to Medicare ($473 billion) and Medicaid ($1 trillion). [Center on Budget and Policy Priorities (CBPP)]
• Tax cuts that benefit working families will expire after 2025. However, one individual tax cut made permanent changes the way tax brackets are adjusted for inflation, resulting in growing tax increases over time. [CBPP]

1. Adds $1.5 to $2.2 trillion to the national debt, jeopardizing critical services. The plan includes at least $1.5 trillion in tax cuts that are not paid for, such as by closing loopholes used by the wealthy and corporations. [JCT] Because the bill contains several budget gimmicks that obscure the true cost of the tax cuts, the cost could be as much as $2.2 trillion. [CBPP] This will balloon the national debt and further endanger funding for Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, public education and more.
2. Prioritizes the wealthiest taxpayers over working families with children. The plan lowers the top individual tax rate from 39.6% to 37%, giving more tax cuts to the richest 518,000 households. The GOP chose not to fully adjust changes in the Child Tax Credit so that some 24 million children in working families could fully benefit. Both of these changes would cost roughly the same amount, about $80 billion over 10 years. [Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP), CBPP]
3. Prioritizes wealthy business owners and real estate developers like Donald Trump. They get a net $265 billion tax cut from a new 20% deduction for “pass-through” business income combined with a tightening of rules on losses. Applied to the new 37% top individual tax rate, this 20% deduction on business income will drop the top pass-through business tax rate from 39.6% to 29.6%. More than 80% of this tax cut will go to the top 5% in 2019. Trump owns more than 500 pass-throughs. Pass-through owners—which include sole proprietorships, partnerships, LLC’s and S corporations—pay taxes due on their business income on their personal returns at individual rates. [JCT, ITEP]
4. Kills American jobs by encouraging outsourcing and profit shifting. The plan creates a territorial tax system, which exempts foreign profits from U.S. taxes. While the plan will tax some of those offshore profits, the effective tax rate will be far below the U.S. rate. U.S. multinationals will have even more tax incentives to outsource more jobs and shift more profits offshore.
5. Hands a $400 billion tax cut to offshore tax dodgers. American corporations have $2.6 trillion in profits stashed offshore on which they owe $750 billion in U.S. taxes. Rather than make them pay what they owe, like all the rest of us do, the tax plan will charge them only $339 billion—over a $400 billion discount. Apple will save $44 billion and Microsoft $25 billion, based on their Securities and Exchange Commission tax filings. [ITEP]
6. Limits the federal deduction for state and local taxes (SALT), hurting the middle class. The bill caps at $10,000 the amount of state and local property and income or sales taxes that can be deducted from federal taxable income. This is one of the reasons that nearly 8 million families will see tax increases in 2018. The impact of this change will be felt especially in the 20 states that claim an average SALT deduction of more than $10,000. Limiting SALT will put pressure on state and local budgets, likely forcing cuts to education, health care, and infrastructure. [TPC, CBPP]
7. Lets many wealthy heirs avoid paying the estate tax. The estate tax is substantially weakened, losing $83 billion and allowing very rich families to inherit wealth tax-free. Under current law, the tax only applies to estates worth over $5.5 million per person or $11 million per couple—about 5,500 estates. Under the bill, only estates worth at least $11 million per person or $22 million per couple (about 1,800 estates) would pay the tax. [JCT, TPC, CBPP]
8. Enriches President Trump and his family. In addition to cutting the top individual income tax rate and creating a tax break for income from pass-through business entities (of which Trump owns 500), the bill preserves the many existing tax loopholes for real estate investors and even creates a new one. The final bill exempts real estate owners from a provision meant to limit abuse of the new pass-through income deduction. [ITEP]

 

[dviss1]

This shit.. The devil is always in the details..