OT Texas

[Mediocre Man]

Perhaps some do but what about reputable organizations, like the AMA?

I’m having trouble finding anything other than a 1981 article about the AMA opposing life at conception because it’s dangerous for the mother. Also, I don’t care too much because I am pro choice. I know my dr, who I spoke to Friday said life happens at conception. Anywho, I was just playing devil’s advocate

 

[calvin natt]

If a man really cares about having a baby he should maybe check with the women he has sex with and get their thoughts on it. Maybe get married, have a partner who agrees. I mean if there are men out there who would be so appalled at an abortion….make sure it doesn’t happen.

 

[Orion Bailey]

That's from just two posts, and you wonder why people argue with you. Maybe if you were capable of not belittling people so much and being so snarky people wouldn't come back at you like they do. I mean what do you expect? Then you get all fake-offended like you can't understand why everyone is arguing with you. Rinse, repeat.

right. Just from two posts responding to others initial comments. Cause and effect. Gtfo with your strawman bs.

Guy enters conversation politely, agreeing with others that government shouldn't dictate abortion regulation.
But adds that he doesnt agree with abortion personally and says that optimally, for equal rights to be truly equal, a woman would take the mans position into consideration instead of saying he has no say, period.

guy gets told thats despicable.
Guy says thats bs and is a double standArd.
Guy gets told to go fuck himself.

Go back and join your buddies which your selective game of “gotcha” while never calling out your own for the initial behavior you are calling out.
Talk about hypocritical positions…..


I didnt demean anyones position until mine was mocked. So anyone who thinks i pull bullshit cards can fuck off with thier onesided, judgmental, superiority complexes.

 

[RR7]

right. Just from two posts responding to others initial comments. Cause and effect. Gtfo with your strawman bs.

Guy enters conversation politely, agreeing with others that government shouldn't dictate abortion regulation.
But adds that he doesnt agree with abortion personally and says that optimally, for equal rights to be truly equal, a woman would take the mans position into consideration instead of saying he has no say, period.

guy gets told thats despicable.
Guy says thats bs and is a double standArd.
Guy gets told to go fuck himself.

Go back and join your buddies which your selective game of “gotcha” while never calling out your own for the initial behavior you are calling out.
Talk about hypocritical positions…..


I didnt demean anyones position until mine was mocked. So anyone who thinks i pull bullshit cards can fuck off with thier onesided, judgmental, superiority complexes.

And again, that isn't EQUAL rights. That is a man having control over a woman's body. By saying that if a woman wants an abortion, and the man wants the baby, the woman has to carry the baby is not EQUAL. It's ruling in favor of the man to have say and control over the woman's body.

 

[noknobs]

So anyone who thinks i pull bullshit cards can fuck off with thier onesided, judgmental, superiority complexes.

 

[Orion Bailey]

And again, that isn't EQUAL rights. That is a man having control over a woman's body. By saying that if a woman wants an abortion, and the man wants the baby, the woman has to carry the baby is not EQUAL. It's ruling in favor of the man to have say and control over the woman's body.

Where in that statement did i say a woman has to carry a baby if the man wants?

i said optimally the woman would put his position into consideration.

How much clearer can i be when i say I'm not for forcing her to do anything????
But to be equal rights a woman would consider the fathers position. There is no forcing anything in that. Its simply giving enough respect to take pause, listen to the partners decision and then make her decision accordingly.


All Ive been pushing back on is the claim the man has no say, period.
How does having a right to say what they want, force anything on the woman????????????

why is it so bad to think a woman should lend an ear to his thoughts before making a decision???


I cant figure out what the disconnect is here.

oh yeah. Im despicable and need to go fuck myself because I dont back down when people try mocking me for basically having the same stance as them.

fucking ridiculous this has become. Lol.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

*raises hand

I didn’t even bother with that investigation.

 

[RR7]

Where in that statement did i say a woman has to carry a baby if the man wants?

i said optimally the woman would put his position into consideration.

How much clearer can i be when i say I'm not for forcing her to do anything????
But to be equal rights a woman would consider the fathers position. There is no forcing anything in that. Its simply giving enough respect to take pause, listen to the partners decision and then make her decision accordingly.


All Ive been pushing back on is the claim the man has no say, period.
How does having a right to say what they want, force anything on the woman????????????

why is it so bad to think a woman should lend an ear to his thoughts before making a decision???


I cant figure out what the disconnect is here.

oh yeah. Im despicable and need to go fuck myself because I dont back down when people try mocking me for basically having the same stance as them.

fucking ridiculous this has become. Lol.

I'd start by cutting out the victim card shit. It doesn't help a conversation, and frankly makes you come across as rather childish when you can't have a discussion without a long winded rant and victim carding. But I digress.

As for where you said a woman had to carry if a man decides, in response to me saying if the woman doesn't want it, and the guy does, you responded:

both. The woman can birth it and then hand it over. They both made a choice to engage in an act that creates life. The father took it serious and is wanting the opportunity of fatherhood and that should be denied because the woman didn't take it serious?
yeah. Thats fair.

That's the man deciding. That's forcing her to do something. I'd say the disconnect lies in you first stating that, and now changing your stance to being she should just consider his position. Those are two vastly different things. If there is a disconnect, it is in you presenting your opinion in two different ways. I don't know how I am supposed to take your initial statement of they "both" decide, by the man getting the baby, and make the assumption from that that what you mean is she should just consider his feelings, and then ultimately get to decide. Do you not see how those are in contrast of each other?

 

[Orion Bailey]

I'd start by cutting out the victim card shit. It doesn't help a conversation, and frankly makes you come across as rather childish when you can't have a discussion without a long winded rant and victim carding. But I digress.

As for where you said a woman had to carry if a man decides, in response to me saying if the woman doesn't want it, and the guy does, you responded:



That's the man deciding. That's forcing her to do something. I'd say the disconnect lies in you first stating that, and now changing your stance to being she should just consider his position. Those are two vastly different things. If there is a disconnect, it is in you presenting your opinion in two different ways. I don't know how I am supposed to take your initial statement of they "both" decide, by the man getting the baby, and make the assumption from that that what you mean is she should just consider his feelings, and then ultimately get to decide. Do you not see how those are in contrast of each other?

where in there did i advocate my ideal situation should be a forced one and regulated with some law?

Ill tell where. No where…..

my ideal situation would be the woman respecting the mans desire to be a father of the child the conceived, and allow him that chance.
He can pay for all of the medical bils etc or whatever, semantics.

No where have i said i would be for any law forcing any woman to comply to the mans desires.

Yall are mixed up and just quick to jump my shit. No victim card played just stating the situation as it is.

 

[RR7]

where in there did i advocate my ideal situation should be a forced one and regulated with some law?

Ill tell where. No where…..

my ideal situation would be the woman respecting the mans desire to be a father of the child the conceived, and allow him that chance.
He can pay for all of the medical bils etc or whatever, semantics.

No where have i said i would be for any law forcing any woman to comply to the mans desires.

Yall are mixed up and just quick to jump my shit. No victim card played just stating the situation as it is.

I asked a simple question to you. If the woman does not want the baby, and the man does, who gets to decide. You responded with "both", but that she has to carry the baby to term and give him the baby. That is forcing a woman to have the baby. That is the man choosing.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I asked a simple question to you. If the woman does not want the baby, and the man does, who gets to decide. You responded with "both", but that she has to carry the baby to term and give him the baby. That is forcing a woman to have the baby. That is the man choosing.

again. In my ideal, respectful situation, she would do so for him and he would fund all of the costs.
he gets desired fatherhood.
She minimizes the stress of funding a pregnancy.
And the most beautiful part is a conceived life is allowed an opportunity to exist and thrive.

I never said i am for a legal mandate. I've made it clear from the get go I'm not for Any law forcing her to do anything she doesn't want to do.
There is a difference between what one thinks should happen vs what they will vote to make happen.

 

[RR7]

again. In my ideal, respectful situation, she would do so for him and if woidl fund all of the costs.
I never said i am for a legal mandate. I've made it clear from the get go I'm not for Any law forcing her to do anything she doesn't want to do.
There is a difference between what one thinks should happen vs what they will vote to make happen.

I'm not talking about you voting for laws. That's you moving the goalposts from a stated position that if one was for and one was against, she has the baby and gives it up. In a question of who has the rights there to make the decision.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I'm not talking about you voting for laws. That's you moving the goalposts from a stated position that if one was for and one was against, she has the baby and gives it up. In a question of who has the rights there to make the decision.

omg. I was told early the discussion was a out laws and i shouldnt join in if i wasnt to be involved in that…

woidl you guys please make up your mind??? Talk about moving goalposts… and you cant see why i get fucking frustrated with some of you bouncing back and forth?

 

[RR7]

omg. I was told early the discussion was a out laws and i shouldnt join in if i wasnt to be involved in that…

woidl you guys please make up your mind??? Talk about moving goalposts… and you cant see why i get fucking frustrated with some of you bouncing back and forth?

I'm talking about my question to you, your response, and where that led to. I mentioned how that isn't both deciding, and you followed that up by saying fuck that to whether a woman can decide if you are ever a father. Then you started in on being responsible for your actions and accountability. And then made more statements about equal rights.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I didn't say abortion was good. I said government should not be involved. It should be a choice. A man should not have any control.

Of course he can plead his case, and if she and he are not on the same page she should be allowed (by law) to make her choice.

You are free to your opinion. I've stated that. You started claiming that men should get a say. there is no way to do that without forcing pregnancy on women.

Your personal beliefs are beside the point. I'm not sure how they ever got involved in a conversation about government policy.

If you don't want to discuss the topic at hand you should probably not wade into it.

I'm not talking about you voting for laws. That's you moving the goalposts from a stated position that if one was for and one was against, she has the baby and gives it up. In a question of who has the rights there to make the decision.

wth guys? I mean really….

 

[Orion Bailey]

I'm talking about my question to you, your response, and where that led to. I mentioned how that isn't both deciding, and you followed that up by saying fuck that to whether a woman can decide if you are ever a father. Then you started in on being responsible for your actions and accountability. And then made more statements about equal rights.

i believe at that point i had already been told my stance was disgusting to go fuck myself and i was despicable.. for give me for going a bit extreme…

 

[RR7]

i believe at that point i had already been told my stance was disgusting to go fuck myself and i was despicable.. for give me for going a bit extreme…

No, that came after you stated your position that there should be equal rights in the decision making process of whether the baby is carried to term.

 

[calvin natt]

where in there did i advocate my ideal situation should be a forced one and regulated with some law?

Ill tell where. No where…..

my ideal situation would be the woman respecting the mans desire to be a father of the child the conceived, and allow him that chance.
He can pay for all of the medical bils etc or whatever, semantics.

No where have i said i would be for any law forcing any woman to comply to the mans desires.

Yall are mixed up and just quick to jump my shit. No victim card played just stating the situation as it is.

“Just birth it and hand it over” ummmm you are wildly downplaying and underestimating the emotional part of this that it’s almost gross. Going full term and giving birth isn’t just something a woman should do out of respect for a guy. This is ridiculous

 

[calvin natt]

I really think guys should just all get vasectomies if a woman asks them to, and just undo it later.

 

[Orion Bailey]

No, that came after you stated your position that there should be equal rights in the decision making process of whether the baby is carried to term.

Yes. There should be equal rights. Should it be a law? No.
Not all rights are law. There are moral rights that arent laws.

 

[Orion Bailey]

No, that came after you stated your position that there should be equal rights in the decision making process of whether the baby is carried to term.

i think the confusion lies in when i say a man should have the right to have a say. I mean his opinion should not be silenced.
I do not mean a man should have a legal right.

 

[Orion Bailey]

“Just birth it and hand it over” ummmm you are wildly downplaying and underestimating the emotional part of this that it’s almost gross. Going full term and giving birth isn’t just something a woman should do out of respect for a guy. This is ridiculous

yeah yeah yeah. Im just evil for thinking stable relationships can optimally have respect other enough for each other to where if they enter into a relationship aNd had a child and she decides she doesn't want to be a mother, but he would look to father a child with her genes, that she might actually understand the flipside of wanting to be a father.

Again. Its the optimal scenario. Its fantasy. Just like world peace is fantasy. Now lets go berate those who believe world peace is an optimal situation.
You can lead the charge. You seem to be good at it.

 

[RR7]

i think the confusion lies in when i say a man should have the right to have a say. I mean his opinion should be silenced.
I do not mean a man should have a legal right.

But that's a man having a say in a woman's body. And again, when it is an issue of "equal" rights, how do you not see that by having the baby, that is not EQUAL, but the man controlling what happens?

 

[Orion Bailey]

But that's a man having a say in a woman's body. And again, when it is an issue of "equal" rights, how do you not see that by having the baby, that is not EQUAL, but the man controlling what happens?

Why is it controlling if he says he would like to raise the baby and she agrees to have it for him? Ive said she can deny it. Its her legal right. Not what i would like to see and not my optimal situation, but I'm never going to force what id like to see.
Hopefully clearer?

 

[RR7]

Why is it controlling if he says he would like to raise the baby and she agrees to have it for him? Ive said she can deny it. Its her legal right. Not what i would like to see and not my optimal situation, but I'm never going to force what id like to see.
Hopefully clearer?

It's controlling with what you previously said SHOULD happen, not this shift where you say she agreed. That has nothing to do with the discussion of a woman wanting an abortion.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Position is clear. Orion Bailey thinks men must be allowed to force woman to carry pregnancy. Because a woman isn't a human. Just a hole to stick it in.

So you've never masterbated huh? If so, using your philosophy, you've killed millions of unborn humans.

Your position is for a fertilized egg which in the best circumstances doesn't reach full term over 50% of the time at the expense of an existing human life, lower crime rates, and less human suffering.

This is the problem with getting morals from books.

I used to have a tolerance for religion, but the more I read the stances in here the more I think I should ban my kids from attending any church or religious function.

This is absolutely disgusting.

I realize I am a minority here, in fact, several minorities. I have engaged with others even when their comments made me groan. But I refuse to try to convince someone I am an equal human. Either accept or shut the fuck up.
In this past week I was told someone, presumably some god, wants me to be straight, that men have the absolute right to force themselves on women because our pain and suffering is trivial compared to some man's possible disappointment, and that Torah and Tanach, and presumably Jewish people, are just preludes to Christianity.
Enough.
Fuck this shit. You guys, and you know who you are, can all fuck yourselves. Better that than a woman, considering your contempt for us.

No, that came after you stated your position that there should be equal rights in the decision making process of whether the baby is carried to term.

actually all of the above comments came before you engaged with me, as i thought. But whatevs. Movin on.

 

[Orion Bailey]

It's controlling with what you previously said SHOULD happen, not this shift where you say she agreed. That has nothing to do with the discussion of a woman wanting an abortion.

yes. Optimally she would agree. That what is what i believe should happen in the optimal situation. Never gonna for what i believe should happen though.
Clearer now?

 

[RR7]

yes. Optimally she would agree. That what is what i believe should happen in the optimal situation. Never gonna for what i believe should happen though.
Clearer now?

It just has nothing to do with the discussion of abortion and the question I had asked, but whatever.

 

[Orion Bailey]

It just has nothing to do with the discussion of abortion and the question I had asked, but whatever.

you asked who gets to make the choice if they disagree. I answered that. She does. The law already says so and i have said numerous times im not in favor of any law forcing her to a certain decision…

so i did actually answer your question. Maybe not to your satisfAction, but i did in fact, answer it. … but whatever.


I already showed you how @Phatguysrule told me the discussion was about the law. And now you are telling me it isnt??

again man. Make up your mind. Talk about moving goalposts…..

 

[Orion Bailey]

Where is this rule book about strict lanes we must stay in regarding one specific portion of abortion being discussed?