OT Texas

[Chris Craig]

I believe when choices are involved, opinions do matter. It's certainly one reason I advocate for more education on the subject. Just because abortion is available, doesn't necessarily mean it's the best choice.

As a man it's not your choice and thus your opinion is irrelevant. Understanding that is key.

 

[Phatguysrule]

here is the sequence. I ask questions. I provided other angles others might have. I never ones said im for forcing anything. I said in my opinion it should be this way or that way.
I never said the government or i should forced anything on her or any woman.

not until that last post by crand did i drop to the same immature level.
Context and timeframes matter…..

In this sequence you supported stricter laws (restricting women's rights) and minimized the suffering of women before she said anything.

According to your timeline above, you got what you deserved.

Actions have consequences.

 

[Chris Craig]

I believe when choices are involved, opinions do matter. It's certainly one reason I advocate for more education on the subject. Just because abortion is available, doesn't necessarily mean it's the best choice.

True education is accepting your perception is fallible, for only then can you learn

 

[ABM]

As a man it's not your choice and thus your opinion is irrelevant. Understanding that is key.

I never said that. What I am saying is that I have every right to share another perspective with the one making the choice.

 

[ABM]

True education is accepting your perception is fallible, for only then can you learn

Do you feel these folks are doing bad work?

https://www.nrlc.org/help/

 

[bigbailes]

In this sequence you supported stricter laws (restricting women's rights) and minimized the suffering of women before she said anything.

According to your timeline above, you got what you deserved.

Actions have consequences.

The irony of that last sentence is RIPE when no one in here wants to discuss the personal responsibilities of both man and woman that got them into this situation. It doesn't take a genius to know how a baby is made, if you don't want to go down that path, then don't have sex, it's as simple as that. Problem solved!

 

[Chris Craig]

I never said that. What I am saying is that I have every right to share another perspective with the one making the choice.

You did by saying it should be illegal and by voting for those who would make it illegal.

Sharing a perspective is different than sharing a choice

 

[Orion Bailey]

@Orion Bailey, it looks like you’ve since clarified your position on the issue of abortion: that although you think, with few exceptions (rape, and what else?), abortion is immoral, you wouldn’t vote to make it illegal.

First of all, I’m genuinely glad that you’ll at least be staying out of the way (at least in terms of your power to affect changes at the voting booth) of the people who’ve made sacrifices and fought hard to make abortions legal, who continue to fend off religious nuts/controlling freaks assaults on women’s rights. But if you’re willing, I’d like for you to answer a couple of questions (no gotcha, just trying to better understand).

1. Would you oppose enacting a law that would effectively ban all abortions?
2. Would you support or vote for a candidate whose stated primary objective is to make all abortions illegal?

Because I believe @ABM's answers would be "no" to the first and "yes" to the second question.

If your answer is “no” to the first question, you’re at best indifferent to the pain, humiliation, and suffering said law would inflict on women. If your answer is “yes” to the second question, you aren’t just indifferent, you are partly responsible.

Sorry, but no one, not even if they’re able to conjure up each of their own God to appear in front of me to convince me otherwise, would I change my opposition on forcing a woman who was raped to carry her pregnancy to term. Neither would I budge in believing that a woman’s life deserves much more considerations than a lump of cells that more closely resembles that of a wart on my ass than an actual person. You could say I’m just as uncompromisingly pertinacious in my beliefs as the religious nuts are to theirs, which make me no less pigheaded than them. To that, I say, oink oink. I’ll take being on the side of women (I’ll take all… the beautifully, the ugly, and the in-between) over the side of any of their weak ass God any day of the weak (except for whenever the Blazers play the Lakers, in which case I might ask their God for a favor to do some evil shit to the Lakers).

question number1… no. Not all abortions. I MIGHT CONSIDER something for some abortions but would need it detailed out with specific situations, rape, etc. to consider anything.

Second… again no. Mainly for the same reasons as the first answer.

i worship women. I also believe the children are the key to our future. Not adult men and women. And if we truly care. Both men and women, we would put that new live above our own.

 

[Orion Bailey]

The irony of that last sentence is RIPE when no one in here wants to discuss the personal responsibilities of both man and woman that got them into this situation. It doesn't take a genius to know how a baby is made, if you don't want to go down that path, then don't have sex, it's as simple as that. Problem solved!

You are despicable and disgusting and should go fuck yourself!!

see my green font.

 

[Orion Bailey]

In this sequence you supported stricter laws (restricting women's rights) and minimized the suffering of women before she said anything.

According to your timeline above, you got what you deserved.

Actions have consequences.

show me where i said id vote for stricter laws.

your wrong… again.

 

[Orion Bailey]

The irony of that last sentence is RIPE when no one in here wants to discuss the personal responsibilities of both man and woman that got them into this situation. It doesn't take a genius to know how a baby is made, if you don't want to go down that path, then don't have sex, it's as simple as that. Problem solved!

exactly what i was trying to discuss originally thst brought some much hate on me. Read my first post. Out it to crand. I was polite. I asked question. I expressed my opinion but no where did i say i want to force any decision on anyone.
I wanted a conversation a out the effects of it on both men and women.

Basically told to shut up aNd sit down.


just a bunch more twisting from those who can do no wrong …

 

[ABM]

You did by saying it should be illegal and by voting for those who would make it illegal.

Sharing a perspective is different than sharing a choice

My fight is for the rights of the unborn. I just said a few minutes ago that I'm becoming less and less inclined to go down (get in the trenches of) the political path (i.e. push for getting laws mandated, etc.) and more inclined to go down the education (i.e. other alternatives to abortion, etc.) path.

I'm not saying this message board is a microcosm of US life in general. It's not. I do, however, believe the liberal views in here are fairly representative of Liberal American views in general. These views are strong and entrenched. Same for many Conservatives on the other side. As a result, the issue itself is incredibly polarizing. I guess I just now see more opportunities in the trenches. Showing different sides and potential alternatives to any situation is not a terrible thing.

Then tell the girl/woman...

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I also believe the children are the key to our future.

 

[Lanny]

As a man it's not your choice and thus your opinion is irrelevant. Understanding that is key.

Well, you've got to admit that it brings a smile to your face when a pregnant woman considering abortion asks the father for his opinion before making her choice. I'm not saying that it's always best to get his concurrence just saying it's nice when conditions align where the woman feels comfortable asking the father's input. Should the father have the law on his side? Absolutely not. It's the woman's legal right to have the final say except in the last trimester.

 

[Lanny]

The irony of that last sentence is RIPE when no one in here wants to discuss the personal responsibilities of both man and woman that got them into this situation. It doesn't take a genius to know how a baby is made, if you don't want to go down that path, then don't have sex, it's as simple as that. Problem solved!

This is good for you and not good for others.

 

[RR7]

in your scenario we turn into idiocracy.
Im not for that. And if it requires stiffer laws and penalties to avoid that future, so be it.

show me where i said id vote for stricter laws.

your wrong… again.

I believe he already had, but here it is again, for reference.

 

[bigbailes]

This is good for you and not good for others.

How so? Is sex some necessity? Is it a matter of life and death for people? It really is that easy, called self control and if you aren't able to live with the consequences, then don't do the deed.

As I've said before, I'm not against abortion, especially in forced pregnancy situations, but I also am vehemently apposed to it being used as a form of birth control as well. We need more education and even more access to actual birth control.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I believe he already had, but here it is again, for reference.

Ohhh you got me. Not. Lol.

now where did it say id vote for it? To be for something but to vote for it are two different things. Im not for abortion. But i vote for it.


Also at that point i was just pissed at the labeling and that there was no discussion. Just foglngee pointing. So i played the opposite extreme. I started out saying some people will do.

Try again. Cause your wrong. Again. But i don't put much faith in any of your posts when i proved you wrong yesterday and you just moved on in silence instead of admitting it.

i respect those who can admit faults. You are not one of these people.

you lost cred. Go cherry pick another conversation now without context.

Lol.

 

[RR7]

So you're going to go with the hair splitting of saying I said so be it, not that I would vote for it? And you wonder why people get confused at your posts? Because you post something, and then say it means something else that literally nobody would interpret it as. Ok, we'll go with that. Wasn't trying to "get you". Simply showing where you said you'd be for stiffer laws. But you're right, you didn't say "vote" for those. jesus

 

[Lanny]

How so? Is sex some necessity? Is it a matter of life and death for people? It really is that easy, called self control and if you aren't able to live with the consequences, then don't do the deed.

As I've said before, I'm not against abortion, especially in forced pregnancy situations, but I also am vehemently apposed to it being used as a form of birth control as well. We need more education and even more access to actual birth control.

That's YOUR opinion and not the belief of others.

 

[bigbailes]

That's YOUR opinion and not the belief of others.

Don't think it's an opinion that men and women having vaginal sex can and will lead to pregnancy. Pretty sure that's the most concrete fact anyone in here has shared. I never said self control is easy, in fact a lot of the time it's very difficult, but if you aren't willing to exercise that control, be willing to deal with your consequences. The concept of self control is easy, the practicing of it can be anything BUT easy..

 

[Orion Bailey]

So you're going to go with the hair splitting of saying I said so be it, not that I would vote for it? And you wonder why people get confused at your posts? Because you post something, and then say it means something else that literally nobody would interpret it as. Ok, we'll go with that. Wasn't trying to "get you". Simply showing where you said you'd be for stiffer laws. But you're right, you didn't say "vote" for those. jesus

how many times does it have to be said to not be confusing to you???? Ive cleared it up so many fucking times i swear….


Yea one can not vote what they beleive is right.

yes i can be against abortion but not vote for it.
Yes some people could be for stricter things but not actually vote for them.

It takes an expanded mind to move beyond, “ i believe this and im going to do everything in my POWER to enact my beliefs”, vs “i believe this shouldn't happen and im for it not happening. But im not for a law forcing someone to do what they dont want to do on this.”
Again some of my comments after a certain point were facetious because of the hasty bullshit that came before it.


the english langiage is fickle i tent to take most words littlerally to avoid confusion. If you prefer idioms that on you.


Anyhow i told you this yesterday. We arent getting anywhere. Your lack of compromise, along with a few others, for some communication breakdowns and misunderstandings is ridiculous.


Anyone who has zero patience in a conversation and points hasty fingers is despicable, disgusting and can go fuck themselves.

 

[noknobs]

question number1… no. Not all abortions. I MIGHT CONSIDER something for some abortions but would need it detailed out with specific situations, rape, etc. to consider anything.

Well that's big of you. Do you have a website with contact information so we can fill you in and get your sign-off?

 

[Orion Bailey]

When people tell you who they are, believe them...




Yes, I agree, some people just love to lord over other people, be it men or women. It's just that it's been a lot easier for them to control women than men.


You aren't talking about yourself now, are you?

to answer that last question, no. Not me. But i have no more right to tel @ABM he is wrong in his beliefs that abortions should be abolished than i have the right to tell crand she cant have an abortion.

People will beleive their own morals. There is no right or wrong until you one forces those morals on others. Abm has said he is more cor education these days than laws.


thos extreme man hate for anyone who tbinks abortion ia bad is jsut stupid.

I want you to understand me. Not judge me.

But abm cant say that same thing regarding his beliefs??


It reeks if a double standard in my opinion.


I wanted a conversation like this with crand. I asked questions. I didn't demand or state shit other than that some men might lean certain ways based on certain things. and i was hoping we coild have discussed the rMificTions on both men and women. I was basically told i dont have thst roght and to go fuck myself.

Because i pushed for man being involved in the decision making. Having a voice in the discussion and that women would be wise to listen and then make their choice instead of just tell the man to shut up, he has no say.

That was my original point of my very polite post to crand. Then shit spiraled….

It was apperantely complete bullshit for me to think a man has a right to voice his opinion and a woman should respect that right. nd then make her decision once man had a say.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Well that's big of you. Do you have a website with contact information so we can fill you in and get your sign-off?

oh your back?


I thought you left. L
But back for more hallow gotchas huh?
Youve already proven not worthy of any real response. Go back to where you came from and just put me on ignore.

 

[Chris Craig]

to answer that last question, no. Not me. But i have no more right to tel @ABM he is wrong in his beliefs that abortions should be abolished than i have the right to tell crand she cant have an abortion.

People will beleive their own morals. There is no right or wrong until you one forces those morals on others. Abm has said he is more cor education these days than laws.


thos extreme man hate for anyone who tbinks abortion ia bad is jsut stupid.

I want you to understand me. Not judge me.

But abm cant say that same thing regarding his beliefs??


It reeks if a double standard in my opinion.


I wanted a conversation like this with crand. I asked questions. I didn't demand or state shit other than that some men might lean certain ways based on certain things. and i was hoping we coild have discussed the rMificTions on both men and women. I was basically told i dont have thst roght and to go fuck myself.

Because i pushed for man being involved in the decision making. Having a voice in the discussion and that women would be wise to listen and then make their choice instead of just tell the man to shut up, he has no say.

That was my original point of my very polite post to crand. Then shit spiraled….

It was apperantely complete bullshit for me to think a man has a right to voice his opinion and a woman should respect that right. nd then make her decision once man had a say.

I don't think she is interested in discussing abortion with any man because a man's opinion on the matter is irrelevant. Don't take it personal.

 

[Lanny]

Don't think it's an opinion that men and women having vaginal sex can and will lead to pregnancy. Pretty sure that's the most concrete fact anyone in here has shared. I never said self control is easy, in fact a lot of the time it's very difficult, but if you aren't willing to exercise that control, be willing to deal with your consequences. The concept of self control is easy, the practicing of it can be anything BUT easy..

Please don't put words in my mouth. Obviously I wasn't referring to that part of your statement. Re-read your post where you said ". . . if you don't want to go down that path, then don't have sex, it's as simple as that. Problem solved!"

 

[noknobs]

Is it bad to think that an unborn embryo that has no choice should be protected against humans who already had a choice?

What choice? The choice to use contraceptives and still get accidentally pregnant? The choice to get raped? The choice to have health-related reasons for aborting a pregnancy?

There are many other instances where I think the responsible choice is to have an abortion if they know they can't care for it. Do we really need more kids in foster care, in poverty, in families of abuse or mental illness, born from a mother on drugs/alcohol, etc?

 

[Chris Craig]

Well, you've got to admit that it brings a smile to your face when a pregnant woman considering abortion asks the father for his opinion before making her choice. I'm not saying that it's always best to get his concurrence just saying it's nice when conditions align where the woman feels comfortable asking the father's input. Should the father have the law on his side? Absolutely not. It's the woman's legal right to have the final say except in the last trimester.

Yes, that would be considerate and nice. But, the choice is hers, that's all I'm saying

 

[HailBlazers]

I don't think she is interested in discussing abortion with any man because a man's opinion on the matter is irrelevant. Don't take it personal.

How is it irrelevant when the baby can't get there without one?