Zombie THE 2012 BIDEN/RYAN DEBATE - THE BATTLE OF CHAPLIN HILLS II

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I don't know about polls and all, but all the talk seems to be about Biden's actions and if it was proper for him to be smiling and laughing while Ryan was speaking. Not many articles discussing the substance of the topics. So in a way Biden was effective as the talk is about Biden calling Ryan out on his "substance." Maybe Biden didn't do it the right way or fair way, but he got the message across. Democrats are calling BS on the Republicans ideas (something Obama failed to do).
 
Treaty_of_Batum said:
I don't know about polls and all, but all the talk seems to be about Biden's actions and if it was proper for him to be smiling and laughing while Ryan was speaking. Not many articles discussing the substance of the topics. So in a way Biden was effective as the talk is about Biden calling Ryan out on his "substance." Maybe Biden didn't do it the right way or fair way, but he got the message across. Democrats are calling BS on the Republicans ideas (something Obama failed to do).
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Wouldn't you think it would be more fitting of a candidate for Vice President to call "BS" on the Republicans' ideas by actually using figures and logic instead of derision?
 
maxiep said:
Wouldn't you think it would be more fitting of a candidate for Vice President to call "BS" on the Republicans' ideas by actually using figures and logic instead of derision?
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He was!!! He was fact-checking Ryan on live TV!
 
His "facts" about Iranian missiles weren't.
 
I liked the part where Ryan asked Biden if he could call him Joe.
 
maxiep said:
Exactly what "facts" did Vice President Biden "check"?
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The medicaire numbers and dropping taxes by 20%...

Funny thing is, you think I'm just some naive party puppet. Yes, I actually pay attention.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
I liked the part where Ryan asked Biden if he could call him Joe.
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Actually, you could tell when Rep. Ryan was getting annoyed with Vice President Biden's antics because he went from "Joe" (which in my mind was fine since they were colleagues in Congress) to "Mr. Vice President".
 
maxiep said:
Wouldn't you think it would be more fitting of a candidate for Vice President to call "BS" on the Republicans' ideas by actually using figures and logic instead of derision?
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Not in world of politics. Biden had a job to do after Obama looked so bad seemly conceeding everything to Romney. I was waiting for Obama to break down and admit to Romney he was a bad president. Biden needed to be the "bad guy" losing decorum but getting the message across. Had he tried to talk figures and logic with Ryan, it would just be mind numbing for most watchers as they don't know who's figures to believe.

Now Obama doesn't have to come out a be the jerk in the second debate. But if he doesn't show more of a backbone and Romney has a equally good result in the second debate, Barry may just be one term president. Biden has set the table for Obama to fight back without having to be "Biden" about it.

I thought political strategy wise, it was effective. With regards to figures and logic . . . most voters would have to commit a full 30 days of studying the issues and backing it up with fact checkers and everything else to truly understand the issues and who's position makes more sense, IMO. We are dealing with such a high level of politics that all 4 are skilled enough to make their position sound like the best position. (I didn't think Romney was capable of it, but I was wrong)
 
Treaty_of_Batum said:
Not in world of politics. Biden had a job to do after Obama looked so bad seemly conceeding everything to Romney. I was waiting for Obama to break down and admit to Romney he was a bad president. Biden needed to be the "bad guy" losing decorum but getting the message across. Had he tried to talk figures and logic with Ryan, it would just be mind numbing for most watchers as they don't know who's figures to believe.

Now Obama doesn't have to come out a be the jerk in the second debate. But if he doesn't show more of a backbone and Romney has a equally good result in the second debate, Barry may just be one term president. Biden has set the table for Obama to fight back without having to be "Biden" about it.

I thought political strategy wise, it was effective. With regards to figures and logic . . . most voters would have to commit a full 30 days of studying the issues and backing it up with fact checkers and everything else to truly understand the issues and who's position makes more sense, IMO. We are dealing with such a high level of politics that all 4 are skilled enough to make their position sound like the best position. (I didn't think Romney was capable of it, but I was wrong)
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I have a real problem with treating the American people like idiots. I don't really care what is politically expedient. I care about the future of the country. We have a real choice as to which road we're going to take. The candidates have an obligation to detail their positions. Only one side is doing it so far.
 
I had forgotten about this part of Eastwood's speech. He was more prescient than he knew (@ 29 seconds)

[video=youtube;qwCHy_EMlik]
 
Did Eastwood let you know of his senility at brunch yesterday, early afternoon, over tea and crumpets at Nieman-Marcus in between elbow rubbing sessions with the most prestigious dopplegangers in the lower westside of Chicago like the Visalus twins, Mary Crumpacker and Oscar Snodgrass?
 
maxiep said:
I have a real problem with treating the American people like idiots. I don't really care what is politically expedient. I care about the future of the country. We have a real choice as to which road we're going to take. The candidates have an obligation to detail their positions. Only one side is doing it so far.
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But how do you expect American to understand complex economic and foreign policy issues where experts in the field don't even agree. To me it is insulting that candidates throw out stats and numbers that fit their position and think it is that simple to explain things (both sides do it). These are complex times with very complex issues and to think they are going to have the answers and explain them in 90 minutes, to me is insulting.

I believe both candidates love their country and truly believe they have the right answers. I would rather hear their general philosophy, see their demeanor and decide on that. Besides, how many promises have you heard from candidates on what they propose to do and they don't do it. Again it's almost insulting that these candidates think they can simplify these issues to soundbites and talking points and yet that is what they are both doing.

Edit: so I just took some time to look at fact checks from various sources and they all conclude that both sides said things that didn't turn out to be true. So what is more important, to hear a bunch of figures and ideas or accuracy? Personally I think all 4 can talk all day about specific plans and back it up with figures . . . but we all know they twist these facts up and use figures up to support their positions.
 
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MickZagger said:
Did Eastwood let you know of his senility at brunch yesterday, early afternoon, over tea and crumpets at Nieman-Marcus in between elbow rubbing sessions with the most prestigious dopplegangers in the lower westside of Chicago like the Visalus twins, Mary Crumpacker and Oscar Snodgrass?
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Just adorable.
 
Treaty_of_Batum said:
But how do you expect American to understand complex economic and foreign policy issues where experts in the field don't even agree. To me it is insulting that candidates throw out stats and numbers that fit their position and think it is that simple to explain things (both sides do it). These are complex times with very complex issues and to think they are going to have the answers and explain them in 90 minutes, to me is insulting.

I believe both candidates love their country and truly believe they have the right answers. I would rather hear their general philosophy, see their demeanor and decide on that. Besides, how many promises have you heard from candidates on what they propose to do and they don't do it. Again it's almost insulting that these candidates think they can simplify these issues to soundbites and talking points and yet that is what they are both doing.
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By doing research. Being a citizen can sometimes be hard work.
 
maxiep said:
By doing research. Being a citizen can sometimes be hard work.
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So Republicans that agree with you and Munster's philosophy are hard working citizens. But, Democrats that think Romney's all hogwash aren't working very hard?

Gotcha.

I love how the Republican playbook these days is to act pretentious towards Democrats like they're undeducated freeloaders.
 
I think it's time for Zags and Maxiep to stop the arguing and find some common ground.

Maxie, if Zags were to join a yard maintenance union in Colorado would you hire him to blow your leaves?
 
maxiep said:
By doing research. Being a citizen can sometimes be hard work.
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Maybe for you, personally I find it rather easy being a citizen casting my vote in Oregon.

But by all means, let's research foreign affairs to see who has a better plan on it. Forget the fact that some have devoted their whole life to study the middle east and still can't grasp all the issues, i'm sure Joe the plumber can master it all with a some research and determine who is better for the country in foreign affairs, who is better for the middle class, who will be better for the planet. Assuming of course the candidates follow through on what they say . . . which history shows is a bad assumption.
 
MickZagger said:
So Republicans that agree with you and Munster's philosophy are hard working citizens. But, Democrats that think Romney's all hogwash aren't working very hard?

Gotcha.

I love how the Republican playbook these days is to act pretentious towards Democrats like they're undeducated freeloaders.
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Where did I say just Republicans or people who think like me? Are you trying to say that as the Democratic party of today is against doing research? No wonder I left it.
 
Treaty_of_Batum said:
Maybe for you, personally I find it rather easy being a citizen casting my vote in Oregon.

But by all means, let's research foreign affairs to see who has a better plan on it. Forget the fact that some have devoted their whole life to study the middle east and still can't grasp all the issues, i'm sure Joe the plumber can master it all with a some research and determine who is better for the country in foreign affairs, who is better for the middle class, who will be better for the planet. Assuming of course the candidates follow through on what they say . . . which history shows is a bad assumption.
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See, you're falling into the trap of believing that only experts can reason properly.

As for being a citizen casting your vote in Oregon, I just filled out my Clackamas County ballot this evening.
 
maxiep said:
See, you're falling into the trap of believing that only experts can reason properly.

As for being a citizen casting your vote in Oregon, I just filled out my Clackamas County ballot this evening.
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What did you vote on 82 and 83?
 
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