Zombie THE 2012 BIDEN/RYAN DEBATE - THE BATTLE OF CHAPLIN HILLS II

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What are you talking about? Why stop at $26/hr? Why not $30/hr? $35/hr? What's the right number? Isn't higher better?

Whatever is in line with a decent wage. Shit, if it was $18/hr twenty years ago, or $30/hr now, so be it. Its funneling money out of the CEO's pocket and into the economy.
 
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/01/20/173738/report-incomes/

unionincome.jpg


Continue the parade against organized labor!!! Its a noble cause.

you do realize what happens in the natural evolution of a union, dont you?

in the end, your union will become so top heavy, that they can not sustain the same level for the members, more and more part timers with out benifits ...shrinkage of the union and the middle class that built said union..happens every time.
 
You made the claim, back it up. Hell, use an estimate for the percentage of the workforce that is "middle class" and back it out from there. Can you handle that much math?

This is too easy. It's like watching a cat chase a laser pointer while running into furniture. I almost feel bad about it.

....and you rebutted it with an 11% stat that was misleading from the context of our discussion which was the middle class.

You've questioned my intelligence on more than one occasion and now you want me to do your homework for you? Man, Stanford musta been a bitch.
 
you do realize what happens in the natural evolution of a union, dont you?

in the end, your union will become so top heavy, that they can not sustain the same level for the members, more and more part timers with out benifits ...shrinkage of the union and the middle class that built said union..happens every time.

'My Union' has been around for over 100 years going strong. The company I work for has a model of giving PT'ers complete benefit packages.

What right wing talking points memo was that on, I got to go through my brochure stash.
 
....and you rebutted it with an 11% stat that was misleading from the context of our discussion which was the middle class.

You've questioned my intelligence on more than one occasion and now you want me to do your homework for you? Man, Stanford musta been a bitch.

I threw something your way. What say you?
 
Whatever is in line with a decent wage. Shit, if it was $18/hr twenty years ago, or $30/hr now, so be it. Its funneling money out of the CEO's pocket and into the economy.

Pure intellect folks. Can't argue with amazing logic and reasoning like this. Wow.
 
....and you rebutted it with an 11% stat that was misleading from the context of our discussion which was the middle class.

You've questioned my intelligence on more than one occasion and now you want me to do your homework for you? Man, Stanford musta been a bitch.

If you can't extrapolate the 11% and 7% numbers to realize that unions clearly don't "make up the middle class", then you have bigger issues than I originally thought. And that's saying something.
 
'My Union' has been around for over 100 years going strong. The company I work for has a model of giving PT'ers complete benefit packages.

What right wing talking points memo was that on, I got to go through my brochure stash.

well good for you!

Just gave you a historical overview of the end lifecycle of a union, you showed the chart, and I gave you the correlation. dont ask the why if you dont want to hear the answer, history can be a bitch.
 
I've worked in my share of union shops and, quite frankly, have seen a microcosm of socialism. Meaning, the diligent and hard working "class" end up covering for the dead wood....yet, they're all incentivized equally. In these types of situations, I've also seen plenty of resentment and contempt from the "good guys". Kinda sad, really. In most every case, I had been in a management position, so I had to engage in more than my share of "righting" the situations. Many, many pep talks, disciplinary action, and the like to the bottom-dwellers.

I get it that we don't want greedy CEO's and such lining their respective pockets. We've had this conversation before, but I'd love for more companies to co-op themselves...and provide incentive structures that breed hard work, team players, and/or innovation.

Dead wood isn't just a union problem. I have heard on plenty of occasions from non-union office types that have to fill in for slackers, ass kissers and the such. My girlfriend works for Diamler/Chrysler (non-union) as an operational buyer. The girl who she works with is a hypochondriac that dumps all her work on her all the time with petty illnesses like vaginal systs. Shitty workers isn't just a Union problem.

If you're in a union job where you're being paid fairly lucratively based on production, there will of course be some lazies. Just as there's lazy policemen, lazy politicians, lazy grocery store clerks.....yadda yadda yadda...

I'd like you to find me a lazy UPS driver though. They're usually too busy banging your guys wives.
 
If you can't extrapolate the 11% and 7% numbers to realize that unions clearly don't "make up the middle class", then you have bigger issues than I originally thought. And that's saying something.

even with the sad truth that there has been a decline of the middle class never before seen in this country, Mick believes that he is middle class.

I have seen his claim that he knocks down 100k per year, so its not hard to see he is above that..dont believe me, pullthe figures, average Doctor will only make 60k for the first five years.....
 
well good for you!

Just gave you a historical overview of the end lifecycle of a union, you showed the chart, and I gave you the correlation. dont ask the why if you dont want to hear the answer, history can be a bitch.

Thats not the end lifecycle of a union lincoln, thats called a slow downturn in the economy to what is today having to do a good part with a decrease in Unionization because of greedy corperate types lining their pockets.
 
Pure intellect folks. Can't argue with amazing logic and reasoning like this. Wow.

Fortunately he's going to be in a position to dictate the appropriate pay level for every American. Only then can we find Justice.

Ed O.
 
If you can't extrapolate the 11% and 7% numbers to realize that unions clearly don't "make up the middle class", then you have bigger issues than I originally thought. And that's saying something.

Let me spell this out for you Stanford guy. The Discussion Was About MIDDLE CLASS, Not The Overall Work Force.
 
Dead wood isn't just a union problem. I have heard on plenty of occasions from non-union office types that have to fill in for slackers, ass kissers and the such. My girlfriend works for Diamler/Chrysler (non-union) as an operational buyer. The girl who she works with is a hypochondriac that dumps all her work on her all the time with petty illnesses like vaginal systs. Shitty workers isn't just a Union problem.

If you're in a union job where you're being paid fairly lucratively based on production, there will of course be some lazies. Just as there's lazy policemen, lazy politicians, lazy grocery store clerks.....yadda yadda yadda...

I'd like you to find me a lazy UPS driver though. They're usually too busy banging your guys wives.

As far as I know, though, union jobs don't spawn innovative thinking...and the like. As I had mentioned, I believe more employee-owned companies are the solution! :rockon:
 
Fortunately he's going to be in a position to dictate the appropriate pay level for every American. Only then can we find Justice.

Ed O.

I thought you were better than to make this about me. You think I have a say in the pay level of labor negotiations?
 
As far as I know, though, union jobs don't spawn innovative thinking...and the like. As I had mentioned, I believe more employee-owned companies are the solution! :rockon:

How many union jobs do you really need to use innovative thinking?
 
How many union jobs do you really need to use innovative thinking?

Innovation (read: motivation) can be used in every single job that I can think of.
 
even with the sad truth that there has been a decline of the middle class never before seen in this country, Mick believes that he is middle class.

I have seen his claim that he knocks down 100k per year, so its not hard to see he is above that..dont believe me, pullthe figures, average Doctor will only make 60k for the first five years.....

I start driving school Monday, passed the drive test yesterday. First year, 16/hr....Second year 23/hr...Two and a half years in and I'm top scale making $32/hr....Usually 9 to 10 hour days. $47/hr OT. My buddy is a package car driver and made 85k his 4th year in.

Not a bad gig for a Union schlub. Yes, hard work.
 
Innovation (read: motivation) can be used in every single job that I can think of.

When I think of innovation, I think of it meaning innovative (new) (creative) ideas.
 
It's a larger issue than being about dead wood, itself. In other words, if I'm in a union position, then, really, why should I work any harder than the person next to me when I know full well, in the end, they're gonna receive the exact same compensation/benefits as me?

I won't and, for that matter, I shouldn't.
 
It's a larger issue than being about dead wood, itself. In other words, if I'm in a union position, then, really, why should I work any harder than the person next to me when I know full well, in the end, they're gonna receive the exact same compensation/benefits as me?

I won't and, for that matter, I shouldn't.

Integrity.

I've always strived to standout in whatever it was I'm doing. Guess who's going to get the leeway when he wants time off?

Job security, good pay, benefits outweigh worrying about what the guy next to me is doing.
 
Integrity.

I totally agree.

That said, sometimes incentive trumps integrity. (in other word's there are ALWAYS gonna be bad apples......that may need a little boost to get them over the proverbial hump..)
 
Let me spell this out for you Stanford guy. The Discussion Was About MIDDLE CLASS, Not The Overall Work Force.

Oh dear. I'll say it again:

If you can't extrapolate the 11% and 7% numbers to realize that unions clearly don't "make up the middle class", then you have bigger issues than I originally thought. And that's saying something.
 
I start driving school Monday, passed the drive test yesterday. First year, 16/hr....Second year 23/hr...Two and a half years in and I'm top scale making $32/hr....Usually 9 to 10 hour days. $47/hr OT. My buddy is a package car driver and made 85k his 4th year in.

Not a bad gig for a Union schlub. Yes, hard work.

BALLA!!
 

I'm a 'BALLA' even if I don't have a pot to piss in. Its called charm and good looks.

DaLincoln was calling BS, I gave some facts.

The only thing we know about you is that you're a Stanford reject that likes to follow me around and flaunt your fetish towards a poor Union lackey like myself.

Don't feel sorry for me. Trust me.
 
I totally agree.

That said, sometimes incentive trumps integrity. (in other word's there are ALWAYS gonna be bad apples......that may need a little boost to get them over the proverbial hump..)

I've always liked you because I can reason in a civil fashion with you.

.....Something a certain Stanford fanboy should take notes about.
 
I totally agree.

That said, sometimes incentive trumps integrity. (in other word's there are ALWAYS gonna be bad apples......that may need a little boost to get them over the proverbial hump..)

Actually, for that matter, incentive is a better tool for the "good" guys......the ones with integrity. Greatly minimizes the amount of potential resentment, indifference, and/or apathy..towards their less-than-stellar co-workers. In the end, it produces a better product/service, overall.
 
Actually, for that matter, incentive is a better tool for the "good" guys......the ones with integrity. Greatly minimizes the amount of potential resentment, indifference, and/or apathy..towards their less-than-stellar co-workers. In the end, it produces a better product/service, overall.

There's not as much resentment in a Unionized workplace as you'd think. I know I only focus on my task at hand and not what everyone else is doing. Some of my good buddies down at work are lazy asses. Its their prerogative.
 
I see PapaG creepin on this thread. Its gotta be so tempting for him...:lol:
 
I'm a 'BALLA' even if I don't have a pot to piss in. Its called charm and good looks.

DaLincoln was calling BS, I gave some facts.

The only thing we know about you is that you're a Stanford reject that likes to follow me around and flaunt your fetish towards a poor Union lackey like myself.

Don't feel sorry for me. Trust me.

It's a little silly to claim your "good looks" when you've already shown us pictures of yourself.
 

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