The 2022 Trade Idea Thread, now with more urgency!

[illmatic99]

You're assuming that we wouldnt have size in this theoretical scenario? My dream is to dump CJ for a wing and Powell for Smart. You start Smart at SG with Simons as the sixth man. At forward you have proper sized players. I dont see the issue

then that's different from starting dame/simons/smart and playing them together for the majority of the game. dumping CJ for a longer wing would be crucial.

that said, i do project Ant as a starter. I think he's outgrowing the jordan clarkson comps.

 

[James lamphear]

One thing I never believe in mortgage the future if I don't have to. I also don't believe building around one player either. I believe in build around a system and get players that's fit into that system on both side of the ball. Do I believe trading Dame no I think he can fit Billups system but others don't. Simons and Nas are the future so you don't trade them. But you see last couple games the players are playing together a lot better because there playing team basketball and everyone involved on both ends of the ball. Sometimes when you got star and couple guys supposed to be close to it and making the big money they kind fill there untouchable with there playing time. But they kind forget one thing the team aspect of the game and eventually that usually fall in the long run.

 

[Scalma]

then that's different from starting dame/simons/smart and playing them together for the majority of the game. dumping CJ for a longer wing would be crucial.

that said, i do project Ant as a starter. I think he's outgrowing the jordan clarkson comps.

Yeah, what im thinking is you pay Ant starter money and he's the sixth man for one season. Then we either make a deep run next season, turn into a contender, keep Dame and trade Ant----or we dont and we trade Dame and build around Ant.

 

[James lamphear]

I believe Simons should be the starter next year. I also more he plays better he will be a defender. But until we find more on Dame I don't see CJ getting traded by deadline but possible in the off season. Really the only 2 players that might get traded is Roco and Nurk because there expiring contract. But if we continue to put up wins that could change with Nurk especially if you can't find someone as good.

 

[boredinsalem]

while smart is a far better perimeter defender than any of our other guys, he's still 6'3. i don't want him guarding wings. our goal should be to avoid this 3 guard nonsense that Olshey put together

Smart is actually at his best guarding 2/3s. The really quick 1s give him the most trouble. He could play some 3 minutes and we wouldn't be in 3 guard lineups more than 10-15 MPG (Dame could get 36 and it would still leave 30 mpg for both Ant and Smart with no 3 guard lineups).

 

[boredinsalem]

Well, Norman Powell is having a much better year than Bogdanovich at a lower salary.

I think you're wrong on this. Bogdanovich's average salary is only $18M per year.

 

[illmatic99]

Smart is actually at his best guarding 2/3s. The really quick 1s give him the most trouble. He could play some 3 minutes and we wouldn't be in 3 guard lineups more than 10-15 MPG (Dame could get 36 and it would still leave 30 mpg for both Ant and Smart with no 3 guard lineups).

still deficient and you'd have to work around the fact that you have three short dudes with staggering nonsense. i'm so tired of being shorter than our opponents at so many positions every night. if we're truly going to embrace a rebuild around dame, height and athleticism are my top goals. smart is far more capable than powell admittedly, but still, guys like luka/lebron/kawhi could simply shoot over him. and we couldn't switch as much as we'd want to in the playoffs in certain matchups.

think chauncey is tired too, and this was in december.


When Toronto came to town last month, some reporters who cover the team were curious about Powell, the former Raptors guard, starting at small forward. Before the game, a Toronto reporter asked Billups if he was concerned about the four inches Powell would concede to Raptors forward OG Anunoby.

“We give up size every night, man,” Billups said. “We are a small group, especially at 1, 2 and 3. They are all pretty much 6-3. But you have to find a way to just make multiple efforts defensively.”

I asked, then, if Billups thought giving up that kind of size every night was a sustainable model for success. He tried his best rope-a-dope answer, talking about how he was trying to figure out how to best use all three guys at the same time, how he needed to do a better job of putting them in better positions to succeed … but eventually he tired of coming up with an excuse.

“We’ll see,” Billups concluded.

As Billups left the interview room, some of us reporters chuckled as we remarked that his “we’ll see” sounded an awful lot like a diplomatic way of saying “hell, no.”

Two weeks later, nobody is laughing and there is no more we’ll see. The three-guard lineup has been seen, warts and all.

 

[illmatic99]

windhorst also had an interesting nugget about OKC being about 20 mil under the salary floor with their current roster. so apparently, they'd have to cut a check to the rest of the players on their team in lieu of being so far below the cap.

they can absorb powell's contract completely if they wanted to. if we can extract a pick while dumping 15 mil of salary, that would be amazing. I'm not sure OKC would be able to use that space to acquire more assets-- think the market for that is saturated with so few dumpable albatross contracts around the league.

here's an idea. OKC gets a player they can potentially use for the future on a relatively reasonable deal instead of simply paying their guys more. We get a pick out of it while clearing our cap a bit for upcoming extensions to Ant/Nurk, and Cavs get a much needed starting 2 guard.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

windhorst also had an interesting nugget about OKC being about 20 mil under the salary floor with their current roster. so apparently, they'd have to cut a check to the rest of the players on their team in lieu of being so far below the cap.

they can absorb powell's contract completely if they wanted to. if we can extract a pick while dumping 15 mil of salary, that would be amazing. I'm not sure OKC would be able to use that space to acquire more assets-- think the market for that is saturated with so few dumpable albatross contracts around the league.

here's an idea. OKC gets a player they can potentially use for the future on a relatively reasonable deal instead of simply paying their guys more. We get a pick out of it while clearing our cap a bit for upcoming extensions to Ant/Nurk, and Cavs get a much needed starting 2 guard.

View attachment 43876

lol You don't give Norman Powell away 6 months after you just signed him. He's a great value. This is not the way to rebuild.

 

[illmatic99]

lol You don't give Norman Powell away 6 months after you just signed him. He's a great value. This is not the way to rebuild.

in a vacuum, yes, Powell is on a good deal. but he's a terrible fit, whether next to CJ or Ant. I'd rather have another liquid asset like a pick and a 13 mil TPE to play around with this summer. We're in rebuild mode.

And you're not just dumping his contract here, you're getting fairly commensurate value back.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

in a vacuum, yes, Powell is on a good deal. but he's a terrible fit, whether next to CJ or Ant. I'd rather have another liquid asset and a 13 mil TPE to play around with this summer.

And you're not just dumping his contract here, you're getting fairly commensurate value back.

I'm open to trading him but not giving him away. He's a very good player on a great value that many teams would love to have. I'm not prepared to say he's a terrible fit either. He'd probably be pretty willing to come off the bench should the Blazers get better. He'd be fantastic with Ben Simmons catching him off cuts.

 

[Scalma]

We're in rebuild mode.

Not while Dame is here.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

windhorst also had an interesting nugget about OKC being about 20 mil under the salary floor with their current roster. so apparently, they'd have to cut a check to the rest of the players on their team in lieu of being so far below the cap.

they can absorb powell's contract completely if they wanted to. if we can extract a pick while dumping 15 mil of salary, that would be amazing. I'm not sure OKC would be able to use that space to acquire more assets-- think the market for that is saturated with so few dumpable albatross contracts around the league.

here's an idea. OKC gets a player they can potentially use for the future on a relatively reasonable deal instead of simply paying their guys more. We get a pick out of it while clearing our cap a bit for upcoming extensions to Ant/Nurk, and Cavs get a much needed starting 2 guard.

View attachment 43876

I'd rather have Powell on his good 5 year contract than the Clippers pick.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

in a vacuum, yes, Powell is on a good deal. but he's a terrible fit, whether next to CJ or Ant. I'd rather have another liquid asset like a pick and a 13 mil TPE to play around with this summer. We're in rebuild mode.

And you're not just dumping his contract here, you're getting fairly commensurate value back.

Trade CJ then. A mediocre 1st round pick was half of the value of Roco with 2 years. Or the full value of Larry Nance with 2 years. Keeping Powell for 4.5 years is much better than that.

 

[illmatic99]

Not while Dame is here.

Lets see what the ab specialists say about that

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Not while Dame is here.

Kobe didn't think he was rebuilding either at the end of his career. Dame isn't at the LeBron/Giannis/MVP level where he can carry a team to HCA or playoff series wins.

 

[Scalma]

I'm open to trading him but not giving him away. He's a very good player on a great value that many teams would love to have. I'm not prepared to say he's a terrible fit either. He'd probably be pretty willing to come off the bench should the Blazers get better. He'd be fantastic with Ben Simmons catching him off cuts.

Powell had crazy splits as a starter vs bench in Toronto. He's one of those guys that clearly plays better as a starter. And his numbers back him up. He's one of the most efficient scorers in the league. He's just not a fit here with everyone else we've got and his defensive deficiencies. Cronin will have to decide between him and CJ, I dont see any other option. And that's at minimum, because ideally you'd probably trade both. Right now they're just gonna be taking minutes away from Ant and Nas.

 

[Scalma]

Lets see what the ab specialists say about that

What? This isn't an injury that will threaten his career. Where was it suggested that it was?

 

[wizenheimer]

Trade CJ then. A mediocre 1st round pick was half of the value of Roco with 2 years. Or the full value of Larry Nance with 2 years. Keeping Powell for 4.5 years is much better than that.

I don't think you can assign value of 1st round picks based upon Olshey trades. He's been terrible at utilizing those picks. Besides three 1sts for RoCo and Nance, he traded a 1st for Afflalo; a 1st for Plumlee; and two 1sts for Zach Collins. The rest of the NBA may very well not place that kind of disposable value on 1st round picks

 

[B-Roy]

I don't think you can assign value of 1st round picks based upon Olshey trades. He's been terrible at utilizing those picks. Besides three 1sts for RoCo and Nance, he traded a 1st for Afflalo; a 1st for Plumlee; and two 1sts for Zach Collins. The rest of the NBA may very well not place that kind of disposable value on 1st round picks

Anfernee is the first good 1st round pick he's made since CJ. And he's only starting to reach that level as he is coming off his rookie deal. But still a 3/5 hit rate on useful players is not THAT bad. What's more questionable is the players he's trading those unused picks for....

 

[Scalma]

Anfernee is the first good 1st round pick he's made since CJ. And he's only starting to reach that level as he is coming off his rookie deal. But still a 3/5 hit rate on useful players is not THAT bad. What's more questionable is the players he's trading those unused picks for....

yeah Nas sucks.

 

[B-Roy]

yeah Nas sucks.

?
I included Nas. CJ+Ant+Nas = 3, and Olshey has made 5 picks since 2013. The 2 bad ones are Zach Collins and Swanigan.

 

[illmatic99]

What? This isn't an injury that will threaten his career. Where was it suggested that it was?

I meant in the shorter term. As in this season. I didn't think people would really be up in arms about dealing Powell for a tpe and a pick.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I don't think you can assign value of 1st round picks based upon Olshey trades. He's been terrible at utilizing those picks. Besides three 1sts for RoCo and Nance, he traded a 1st for Afflalo; a 1st for Plumlee; and two 1sts for Zach Collins. The rest of the NBA may very well not place that kind of disposable value on 1st round picks

All the more reason not to trade Norman Powell for a mediocre to poor first round pick as illmatic suggested.

 

[illmatic99]

All the more reason not to trade Norman Powell for a mediocre to poor first round pick as illmatic suggested.

i feel like some of you guys are not following my train of thought, or are just being shortsighted. Trading Powell in my suggestion above nets us: 1) a pick, 2) gets us well below the tax to potentially have access to the full MLE, 3) gives us a TPE to make another trade in the summer for a player making ~18 mil, 4) r gives us flexibility to give Ant a similar deal without further tax implications.

We can do a similar deal with RoCo to NY (or CHI/etc) to get another pick.

We then combine CJ with our newly acquired picks to get someone like Simmons. And I think Morey would prefer this to adding on salary from Norm/Roco.

We then tank this ONE season, and come back with Dame/Simmons, our lottery pick, and flexibility to sign Ant/Nurk without getting too deep into the tax.

If Powell was a good fit and played elite defense, he would be great on our roster, but as is, he duplicates a lot of what our other guards bring. This is one way to maximize his value unless a deal presents itself for a taller player of similar talents.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Yeah Ben, Maxey, and 3 1sts for Dame doesn’t sound so bad now. Combine that with all the assets from CJ/Cov/Nurk/Norm and we pretty much have an accelerated rebuild similar to Memphis and we’re in a much better position than the thunder.

Guess I’m okay with whichever direction we go now.

You sound more like a Tank Beller!

 

[BankTeller]

I don't think you can assign value of 1st round picks based upon Olshey trades. He's been terrible at utilizing those picks. Besides three 1sts for RoCo and Nance, he traded a 1st for Afflalo; a 1st for Plumlee; and two 1sts for Zach Collins. The rest of the NBA may very well not place that kind of disposable value on 1st round picks

Com’on man, the 1st he gave up for Plumlee was RHJ after the pick was made, which turned out to be a great trade cause Plumlee netted us a 1st in addition to Nurk. I can agree with a lot about what you’ve just said, but that was not a good example.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Ant - 22
Thybulle - 24
Nas - 21
Simmons - 25
Nurk - 27

Is interesting to me, though probably no one else. There's probably a better fit than Nurk, though.

 

[wizenheimer]

Com’on man, the 1st he gave up for Plumlee was RHJ after the pick was made, which turned out to be a great trade cause Plumlee netted us a 1st in addition to Nurk. I can agree with a lot about what you’ve just said, but that was not a good example.

I was speaking of 'present' value which means value at the time. Plumlee didn't have numbers any better than RoCo or Nance prior to that trade. He was a role player that netted a 1st from Portland. He was only a default starter in Portland because Blazers didn't have anybody better

what he netted in a subsequent trade was immaterial to the trade that acquired him because the circumstances of the 2nd trade were completely separate from the 1st

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Ant - 22
Thybulle - 24
Nas - 21
Simmons - 25
Nurk - 27

Is interesting to me, though probably no one else. There's probably a better fit than Nurk, though.

Thybulle/Dort are the types of players you need with Simons on the perimeter.