The Raptors should be an example to us of how to build a better team

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
I’m salty. Toronto took a risk and might win a championship for it.

Meanwhile we sign benchwarmers to 40 million dollar contracts.

We could have had George if Neil was willing to part with CJ. Think about that.
 
I'd take Kawhi over any player in the NBA right now. Durant. Harden. Giannis. LeBron. Anyone.

Guy knows how to put up numbers with anyone while still playing exceptionally in a team framework. His teammates don't get caught standing around watching him because there aren't times he'll just be all one-on-one. He's a player who makes the guys around him better. And he plays defense, too. And he is clutch.
 
PCmor7 said:
I'd take Kawhi over any player in the NBA right now. Durant. Harden. Giannis. LeBron. Anyone.

Guy knows how to put up numbers with anyone while still playing exceptionally in a team framework. His teammates don't get caught standing around watching him because there aren't times he'll just be all one-on-one. He's a player who makes the guys around him better. And he plays defense, too. And he is clutch.
Click to expand...

Yeah, he’s my number one in the league too. Just so dominant on both ends on the floor and so clutch in key moments.

I hope he stays in Toronto after this. If they win the championship that trade was well worth it anyway - hell, even if they don’t it was still worth it as they were going nowhere with DeRozan anyway.

They will have a ton of cap space in 2020 too as virtually all their players expire then including big contracts of Lowry, Ibaka and Gasol. Looking at the culture they’ve built, their fan base and entire nation getting behind them I think they could even be tempting for some of the free agents out there.

Also underrated move by them was trading JV and Delon Wright for Marc Gasol. He has been a big help in these playoffs too.
 
B-Roy said:
I’m salty. Toronto took a risk and might win a championship for it.

Meanwhile we sign benchwarmers to 40 million dollar contracts.

We could have had George if Neil was willing to part with CJ. Think about that.
Click to expand...
Cake is still baking
 
Sarni said:
So are we still pretending they aren’t better than us and are only there because ECF is weak?

They beat Phila and Bucks to get there too. Both would be 2 seed in the West easily, and possibly 1 seed this year as well.
Click to expand...
I still dont think Toronto is very good, the Blazers arent either. Just GS has basically ran out energy / bodies. They are missing KD who’s pretty good.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
I still dont think Toronto is very good, the Blazers arent either. Just GS has basically ran out energy / bodies. They are missing KD who’s pretty good.
Click to expand...

They've won five out of six from the Warriors this season. They beat GS with Durant, Curry and Thompson by 20.

There's definitely validity to Golden State's injuries and such, but that's the risk you take when you load up your starting five and take chances with your bench. And Steph's sat out at least a dozen games each of the last two years, so I don't think you can say injuries are a flukey thing with him anymore. Injury-prone is a quality just like being able to shoot or rebound, it's just not widely viewed that way.
 
I think the premise of this thread is way off.

What it is saying to me is that the Blazers need to take the Raptors lead and go out and land a player of Kawhi Leonard's caliber, and then make yet another trade for a quality veteran like Marc Gasol. Then, in theory, we could have done what the Raptors are doing now to the Warriors.

Great points but, the Blazers have never ever traded for a player of Kawhi Leonard's caliber. The Blazers could use a wily old veteran but I can't remember the last time the Blazers even had a veteran player of any caliber. The last time they tried to trade for a quality veteran, that I can remember hearing of, was Mark Gasol's brother Pau, and he turned down the offer to go to the Spurs for 2 million dollars less money.

Lastly, everyone knows to win the championship your team must be healthy, you can't be missing major pieces. Currently the Raptors are enjoying a luxury the Blazers didn't get, yet another injured Warrior piece in Klay Thompson. Plus the Raptors are healthy, no missing parts.

This is a nice theory guys, but it's quite flawed.
 
The reason you believe that is because they aren't flashy. They are sound and methodical. Just like the Tim Duncan led Spurs teams.
When Kerr tried to double Kawhi, he moved the ball until they found the open man to make the shot. No Hero Ball from Kawhi.
When Kerr tried to double the Blazers best players, they all go into HERO ball mode. Shooting the team out of games by themselves.
To me, there are two things that come to mind with the Raptors (and that's why I picked them to win).
1. Team defense
2. High IQ play from some of their best players.
I believe both 1. and 2. can be instilled by a coach. However, Stotts is not the guy, because he doesn't understand these two keys to beat the Warriors.
TorturedBlazerFan said:
I still dont think Toronto is very good, the Blazers arent either. Just GS has basically ran out energy / bodies. They are missing KD who’s pretty good.
Click to expand...
 
joeBlazers said:
The reason you believe that is because they aren't flashy. They are sound and methodical. Just like the Tim Duncan led Spurs teams.
When Kerr tried to double Kawhi, he moved the ball until they found the open man to make the shot. No Hero Ball from Kawhi.
When Kerr tried to double the Blazers best players, they all go into HERO ball mode. Shooting the team out of games by themselves.
To me, there are two things that come to mind with the Raptors (and that's why I picked them to win).
1. Team defense
2. High IQ play from some of their best players.
I believe both 1. and 2. can be instilled by a coach. However, Stotts is not the guy, because he doesn't understand these two keys to beat the Warriors.
Click to expand...
You are so wrong... I liked most of those Spurs teams with how they played. It has nothing to do with "flash" and nothing to do with why I don't think highly of Toronto.
 
They have beaten the Warriors 5 out of 6 games this season. Some games with Durant and other game without Kawhi.
They rarely go on scoring droughts.
They don't give up easy baskets
They made Embiid cry, made Giannis (MVP) human and made Bledsoe, Middleton(Allstar) look like chumps
They take away other teams strengths methodically and consistently.
It is not luck. They have a system in place and they implement, then deploy it. And it works.
TorturedBlazerFan said:
You are so wrong... I liked most of those Spurs teams with how they played. It has nothing to do with "flash" and nothing to do with why I don't think highly of Toronto.
Click to expand...
 
joeBlazers said:
They have beaten the Warriors 5 out of 6 games this season. Some games with Durant and other game without Kawhi.
They rarely go on scoring droughts.
They don't give up easy baskets
They made Embiid cry, made Giannis (MVP) human and made Bledsoe, Middleton(Allstar) look like chumps
They take away other teams strengths methodically and consistently.
It is not luck. They have a system in place and they implement, then deploy it. And it works.
Click to expand...
Yup 96 bulls look out...
 
I think I wrote it the first time we played the Raptors this year: They are a very good team. Much, much better than I realized.

Their depth impressed me. Their length and their ability to defend.

You know the other thing the Raptors have that I think is probably their biggest advantage over the Blazers? They have more than two ballhandlers.

Sometimes they have four guys on the floor who can handle the basketball, who can bring it up. They always have at least three. The Blazers have three at most when they go to a lineup with Dame, CJ and Turner, and Turner's much more limited offensively than any of the Raptors' ballhandlers.

You want to take pressure off Dame (besides actually looking to run transition sometimes)? Having a forward who can bring the ball up and initiate offense is one very good way to do it. Just every now and then. You want to discourage teams from running kamikaze traps at the logo? Have a forward who can be a pressure reliever because he can dribble.

The Raptors have Kawhi and Siakam. The Blazers have Mo and Chief. I can't overstate the difference.
 
Mo is the guy who really could make the Blazers so much a better team if he ever determined what he wants to be. If he was an energy defender like Draymond, which he could be, the Blazers would be much better. If Mo showed he was competent and comfortable bringing the ball up the court from time to time, the Blazers would be a much better team.

Honestly, he shows glimpses where you think he could be either of those, if not both. But more often he's just a guy who occasionally makes jaw-dropping plays but you really don't notice out there 95 percent of the time. He's too talented to be that. I don't know him to say what the problem is, but he looks so disinterested or maybe unengaged would be the best word.

A Batum-like player would be a huge addition to the Blazers, I think that would take them another leg up the ladder. Not Batum himself; I think he's shot. But a guy who offers what Nic did when he was here: A capable dribbler/facilitator who can kill you from 3 if you don't respect him and who also makes momentum-changing defensive plays.

I know, easier to say than to find. Maybe it's why I like drafting Bazley so much.
 
joeBlazers said:
When Kerr tried to double the Blazers best players, they all go into HERO ball mode. Shooting the team out of games by themselves.
Click to expand...

The Raptors also have role player that can hit shots when the ball moves to the open man. Mo and Aminu wouldn't work on the Raptors.
 
Road Ratt said:
I think the premise of this thread is way off.

What it is saying to me is that the Blazers need to take the Raptors lead and go out and land a player of Kawhi Leonard's caliber, and then make yet another trade for a quality veteran like Marc Gasol. Then, in theory, we could have done what the Raptors are doing now to the Warriors.

Great points but, the Blazers have never ever traded for a player of Kawhi Leonard's caliber. The Blazers could use a wily old veteran but I can't remember the last time the Blazers even had a veteran player of any caliber. The last time they tried to trade for a quality veteran, that I can remember hearing of, was Mark Gasol's brother Pau, and he turned down the offer to go to the Spurs for 2 million dollars less money.

Lastly, everyone knows to win the championship your team must be healthy, you can't be missing major pieces. Currently the Raptors are enjoying a luxury the Blazers didn't get, yet another injured Warrior piece in Klay Thompson. Plus the Raptors are healthy, no missing parts.

This is a nice theory guys, but it's quite flawed.
Click to expand...

You literally validated the intention of this thread with your attempt at debunking it. The Blazers have never traded for a star caliber player, so might as well not even consider it??? That's the flawed thinking this thread is attempting to address.

The Raptors were willing to take the risk of trading their Derozan, their franchise player that was loved by the entire team and fanbase, for Kawhi. This risk looks like it will payoff for them immensely. Even if Kawhi leaves, but they end up winning the title, it would worth it for the championship.

For teams/markets like Toronto, OKC and Portland where star free agents aren't clamoring to go to, you have to take more risks when the opportunity presents itself. The higher the risk, the higher the reward.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
Full mental breakdown from the top to the bottom that was it. Thats the reason. Lets remember Houston and the Clippers managed to win two games.
Click to expand...

Agree with this. It was more a mental thing with a touch of fatigue. We were up big in three of those games. You don't get up big like that unless you are good. You don't beat the Nuggets twice in Denver unless you are good. You don't wipe out OKC unless you are good.

This is a mental block when we play GS. We needed to get more out of the forward position than we did. Those guys just were invisible. Tentative. Dame's injury definitely was a factor. But those third quarters? That was a mental thing. We came out flat. It wasn't that we didn't perform. We lacked any energy in the third quarter. I've watched a lot of basketball in my life, and I've never seen anything like that. Ever.
 
[QUOTE="TorturedBlazerFan, post: 4759507, member: 29503"]I still dont think Toronto is very good, the Blazers arent either. Just GS has basically ran out energy / bodies. They are missing KD who’s pretty good.[/QUOTE]

Not very good teams don't make it to the WCF or the NBA finals. Why such negativity? You didn't enjoy the season? I certainly did.
 
I'd say seeing CJ enter the playoffs coming off a strained ligament behind his knee missing 12 games...Enes playing every game after separating his shoulder against OKC...or Dame on fumes playing the finals with separated ribs and all this missing our starting center.....hell it was miraculous if you ask me....and then we did win most of the qtrs. we played the Warriors tough even though we couldn't finish....mad respect for our playoff run. Lowry, Green, Gasol and Leonard all seem pretty healthy in this series.
 
OneSport3 said:
You literally validated the intention of this thread with your attempt at debunking it. The Blazers have never traded for a star caliber player, so might as well not even consider it??? That's the flawed thinking this thread is attempting to address.

The Raptors were willing to take the risk of trading their Derozan, their franchise player that was loved by the entire team and fanbase, for Kawhi. This risk looks like it will payoff for them immensely. Even if Kawhi leaves, but they end up winning the title, it would worth it for the championship.

For teams/markets like Toronto, OKC and Portland where star free agents aren't clamoring to go to, you have to take more risks when the opportunity presents itself. The higher the risk, the higher the reward.
Click to expand...

You are telling me that the Blazers have never went after a star caliber player? If so, that is obviously flawed thinking. Even if not, it is still flawed as the Raptors had exactly what the Spurs needed in trade at the time, the Blazers did not. Plus you left out the wily old veteran the Raptors were able to trade for, something that the Blazers can't seem to do no matter how much they beg the rest of the players in the league (Carmelo Anthony, hint hint).

So, no, following the Raptors lead here would still not be a good analogy.
 
Road Ratt said:
You are telling me that the Blazers have never went after a star caliber player? If so, that is obviously flawed thinking. Even if not, it is still flawed as the Raptors had exactly what the Spurs needed in trade at the time, the Blazers did not. Plus you left out the wily old veteran the Raptors were able to trade for, something that the Blazers can't seem to do no matter how much they beg the rest of the players in the league (Carmelo Anthony, hint hint).

So, no, following the Raptors lead here would still not be a good analogy.
Click to expand...

You're right, I don't know if POR has tried behind the scenes or not to acquire a star player. Maybe they have and were rebuffed. But you can't stop trying. The premise of this thread was that the Raptors reached the ECF last year with the Coach of the Year. But they quickly realized that was their ceiling and traded their franchise player and fired their coach. They weren't just happy about reaching the conference finals. The opposite is true for POR organization and fan base. The organization and a majority of the fanbase seems happy just to have reached the WCF. They extended Stotts and Olshey.

And if you're saying this team should have traded for CARMELO ANTHONY then you lose all credibility.
 
OneSport3 said:
You also forgot to mention how they continuously run PNR for Dame when that allows the defense to blitz and trap him...
Click to expand...

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26923847/what-kawhi-raptors-done-warriors

"He urged his team to veer just a bit away from the pick-and-roll -- to use more off-ball screening and cutting.

"They've done a great job of clogging up our pick-and-rolls," Nurse told ESPN after Game 3. "We've got stuck in them a lot. So we tried to get away from them a little -- a little more cutting." The Raptors, at times, looked like the old-school, Kevin-Durant-less Warriors"

THIS IS WHAT IT'S LIKE TO HAVE A COACH THAT IS ABLE TO RECOGNIZE DEFICIENCIES AND MAKE ADJUSTMENTS.

Meanwhile, Stotts is still running Dame to the ground with pick-and-rolls...
 
OneSport3 said:
You're right, I don't know if POR has tried behind the scenes or not to acquire a star player. Maybe they have and were rebuffed. But you can't stop trying. The premise of this thread was that the Raptors reached the ECF last year with the Coach of the Year. But they quickly realized that was their ceiling and traded their franchise player and fired their coach. They weren't just happy about reaching the conference finals. The opposite is true for POR organization and fan base. The organization and a majority of the fanbase seems happy just to have reached the WCF. They extended Stotts and Olshey.

And if you're saying this team should have traded for CARMELO ANTHONY then you lose all credibility.
Click to expand...

My point is the Blazers have never landed a star player, not because they haven't tried. They haven't ever landed one because none want to come to Portland to play, period. If I could post stats of how often a big market team has landed a star player compared to a small market team, the graph would be hugely in favor of big market teams, and everyone knows it. So crapping all over a small market team for it's lack of ability to make monster trades in the NBA is simply illogical.

No, Carmelo Anthony was just used as a point. I was big in favor of not landing him lol.
 
Road Ratt said:
My point is the Blazers have never landed a star player, not because they haven't tried. They haven't ever landed one because none want to come to Portland to play, period. If I could post stats of how often a big market team has landed a star player compared to a small market team, the graph would be hugely in favor of big market teams, and everyone knows it. So crapping all over a small market team for it's lack of ability to make monster trades in the NBA is simply illogical.

No, Carmelo Anthony was just used as a point. I was big in favor of not landing him lol.
Click to expand...

Stars don't want to come to Portland via free agency, that's why you have to do it via trade. Kawhi did not want to go to Toronto. Paul George made it clear that he was going to sign with the Lakers during his free agency. Yet both Toronto and OKC took the risk and bet on their culture to try to convince both to stay. It worked for OKC for George and remains to be seen with Kawhi.
 
Road Ratt said:
My point is the Blazers have never landed a star player, not because they haven't tried. They haven't ever landed one because none want to come to Portland to play, period. If I could post stats of how often a big market team has landed a star player compared to a small market team, the graph would be hugely in favor of big market teams, and everyone knows it. So crapping all over a small market team for it's lack of ability to make monster trades in the NBA is simply illogical.

No, Carmelo Anthony was just used as a point. I was big in favor of not landing him lol.
Click to expand...

By all reports, Kawhi wasn’t thrilled to be traded to Toronto in the first place.

You missed my point entirely though. The point of the thread isn’t to trade for Kawhi, or necessarily a star. It’s to take risks and shake things up, despite success. The Raptors were the number one team in the east last year. They had the coach of the year. They had a star backcourt. They blew it all up because they wanted a ring. Meanwhile we are doubling down.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top