The summer of silence stops.... NOW. Mixum Returns!

[DaRizzle]

Orlando goes to the finals shooting a lot of treys - so now everybody is supposed to follow along. If Orlando loses in the first round, would people still be getting woodies over guys like Hedo and Blake?

Relying on the three is "dumb luck" basketball. It is the equivalent of an NFL team that throws 60 yard passes every down. If Houston didn't teach Blazer fans that lesson - I'm not sure what will.

Wrong, do not pass go, do not collect $200

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/john_schuhmann/08/20/magic.3pointer.stats/index.html

The league as a whole is shooting more threes and shooting them better than ever. Last season, 22.4 percent of all field-goal attempts (36.2 per game) were 3-pointers. That percentage is at an all-time high and has increased each of the last nine seasons.

NBA teams shot 36.68 percent from downtown, a mark which ranks second all-time. The only mark better -- 36.69 percent in 1995-96 -- was when the 3-point line was set at 22 feet even (its 23 feet, 9 inches now). Every year, the three becomes more of a weapon, and teams are learning that it's much more efficient than the mid-range shot.

 

[MIXUM]

STOP WITH THE STATS!

I hate this pct crap lol. If a guy can play.. he can freaking play!!! Would you want Tony Parker on the Blazers regardless of his 3 point percentage???? Of course you would.

 

[DaRizzle]

STOP WITH THE STATS!

I hate this pct crap lol. If a guy can play.. he can freaking play!!! Would you want Tony Parker on the Blazers regardless of his 3 point percentage???? Of course you would.

Well of course but he is far superior to Miller in driving to the basket (among other things). Dare I say the best PG EVER when it comes to driving to the basket and making the shot

 

[elcap15]

Let me break it down. Floor spacing is the foundation of an NBA offense. It is what makes defenses play honestly. There are different ways to accomplish this. Last year the worst (or at least close to it) 3 pt shooting team in the league, the 76ers, created floor spacing by playing fast break basketball. They got turnovers and ran, which allows them to use the whole court to create spacing. They were a terrible half-court offense team. Good half-court offense teams, use 3 pt shooters to space the floor. This allows a penetrator room to operate by penalizing a defense for sending a help defender.

Last year, the Blazers were one of the slowest teams in the league with one of the better half court offenses in the league. To maintain that, they are going to have to be able to spread the floor. Maybe this means Miller is the primary creator and Roy and Batum/Webtser are floor spacers next year. Or maybe they run more.

My point is, none of it is impossible, but in order for it to work there are going to have to be changes made. And because no one has seen it work yet, there is valid reason to question.

 

[Denny Crane]

I read all this and wonder whether you're aware that the Blazers shot 0.388 from deep... thats 4th best in the league. They were also 9th in the league in 3s made making 7.3 a game. 3 point shooting is a strength not a weakness.

STOMP

How many of those were Blake? I assume he's going to be riding the pine a lot for Miller.

And at SF, Batum gave you .8 3pt makes a game on 2 attempts. Blake gave you 2 3pt makes a game on 5 attempts.

Portland may get a lot of 3pt attempts and makes from the 2nd unit, but that won't make it easier on the 1st team.

 

[Eastoff]

brandon roy
3pm-3pa 3p%
83-220 .377

who says miller can't dish it out to roy?

 

[elcap15]

brandon roy
3pm-3pa 3p%
83-220 .377

who says miller can't dish it out to roy?

you must not have read my post.

It is very possible. However, if Miller is the primary ball handler/creator, this team and Roy in particular will have a much different look. Is it a good thing to take the ball out of Roy's hands?

 

[andalusian]

But you will be replacing Blake ( a good 3pt shooter) with Miller ( a bad 3pt shooter). Will they still be that good with Miller on the floor.

We are also replacing 15 MPG of Sergio Rodriguez's 32% from 3 with Blake...

Overall, does not seem like such a huge drop-off, especially for a team that shot so many 3s and was clearly missing someone other than #7 to attack the rim from the dribble.

 

[Eastoff]

you must not have read my post.

It is very possible. However, if Miller is the primary ball handler/creator, this team and Roy in particular will have a much different look. Is it a good thing to take the ball out of Roy's hands?

I'm not saying Roy can't be a creator, I'm just saying he is a real 3-pt threat. Your post talked about space and mentioned Roy could be a spacer. If someone is carefully reading your post, then yes, you are implying Roy might shoot the 3.

I was just saying Roy has a great 3% and he can take more shots if Blake is not playing with him.

 

[Eastoff]

We are also replacing 15 MPG of Sergio Rodriguez's 32% from 3 with Blake...

Overall, does not seem like such a huge drop-off, especially for a team that shot so many 3s and was clearly missing someone other than #7 to attack the rim from the dribble.

Can you imagine Blake or Miller tearing into those backup PGs!

 

[STOMP]

But you will be replacing Blake ( a good 3pt shooter) with Miller ( a bad 3pt shooter). Will they still be that good with Miller on the floor.

last I checked Blake is still on the team... Miller replaces Sergio who tore up the nets at a 32% clip from deep last year.

Like Sergio, Miller has shown the ability to take people off the dribble despite a lack of a consistent outside shot. Coming off an Oden or Joel pick, I don't think this is going to stop next season. Unlike Sergio, once he's past his man the D has to collapse because he's a proven finisher. What does a cratering defense create?

The question isn't will they still be that good (as last year) with Miller on the floor, it's how much better will consistent wide open looks make their bevy of 3 point shooters? Roy has shown to be a solid outside threat... will the luxury of playing off the ball and allowing Miller to do the initial grinding keep him fresher for taking over the game in the 4th?

I'm really looking forward to these pressing questions being answered

STOMP

 

[Eastoff]

last I checked Blake is still on the team... Miller replaces Sergio who tore up the nets at a 32% clip from deep last year.

Like Sergio, Miller has shown the ability to take people off the dribble despite a lack of a consistent outside shot. Coming off an Oden or Joel pick, I don't think this is going to stop next season. Unlike Sergio, once he's past his man the D has to collapse because he's a proven finisher. What does a cratering defense create?

The question isn't will they still be that good (as last year) with Miller on the floor, it's how much better will consistent wide open looks make their bevy of 3 point shooters? Roy has shown to be a solid outside threat... will the luxury of playing off the ball and allowing Miller to do the initial grinding keep him fresher for taking over the game in the 4th?

I'm really looking forward to these pressing questions being answered

STOMP

I don't know why, but your description makes me that much hungrier for the season!

 

[blazerboy30]

And this is an even lamer argument because Miller was playing on a completely different team, assembled completely different than the Blazers.

1) Andre has played on 4 different teams in the NBA.
2) He has been very successful on each of those teams.
3) Not all 4 of those teams were assembled in the same manner.
4) He has always been successful in the NBA, with defenses "sagging off him", regardless of the team he is on.
5) He'll do the same in Portland.

Dude, you're seriously grasping at straws here with these pathetic arguments. I know you are hoping and trying to convince yourself he won't help the Blazers, but he will.

 

[RoyToy]

Why anyone thinks Andre Miller won't make the Blazers a better team is beyond me.

What's even better is people thinking Blake belongs in the same conversation as Miller.

I feel like some of you argue just to argue.

 

[elcap15]

Why anyone thinks Andre Miller won't make the Blazers a better team is beyond me.

What's even better is people thinking Blake belongs in the same conversation as Miller.

I feel like some of you argue just to argue.

You guys think that we're picking fights with you, but I feel the crux of my argument has been lost in the shuffle.

Miller plays very differently than the Blazers did last year. In order to get the best out of him, the Blazers will have to play differently. We have never seen the rest of the team play that way. Roy has never had to play long stretches off the ball, the team as a whole didnt run much, etc. Its not that they cant do it, we just havent seen it yet.

I have been a Miller fan for years and think you will be better next year, both due to some veteran leadership and just player progression. But I also think that to get the most out of this team they are going to have to do some things they may be less comfortable with.

 

[elcap15]

1) Andre has played on 4 different teams in the NBA.
2) He has been very successful on each of those teams.
3) Not all 4 of those teams were assembled in the same manner.
4) He has always been successful in the NBA, with defenses "sagging off him", regardless of the team he is on.
5) He'll do the same in Portland.

Dude, you're seriously grasping at straws here with these pathetic arguments. I know you are hoping and trying to convince yourself he won't help the Blazers, but he will.

Every team he has been on has been a running team. I cant remember if the Cavs were or not, it was before they were relevant. The only thing pathetic is totally disregarding an argument because it doesnt fit your liking.

 

[STOMP]

You guys think that we're picking fights with you, but I feel the crux of my argument has been lost in the shuffle.

probably because the crux of your argument is so silly it's hard to think that you're being serious and not just some Laker honk trying to stir shit up. It's easier for anyone to catch and shoot open jumpers then to take guys off the dribble and make plays. Having seen Brandon for a few years now, he's shown among other skills that he's an excellent spot up shooter. Maybe his shot attempts go down a bit because following a Miller drive/collapsing D the ball will be swung to whoever is the most open, but BR will still be in the flow making plays throughout the game. But come winning time/4th quarter, you best believe that the ball will be in the hands of Portland's best play maker who should be fresher/even more dominant then in years past because he won't have had to carry the play-making load the first 3 quarters. Come crunch time, I'd expect we'll see more of Rudy and Blake then Miller.

STOMP

 

[elcap15]

probably because the crux of your argument is so silly it's hard to think that you're being serious and not just some Laker honk trying to stir shit up.

I guess I dont see what is silly about questioning the addition a starting PG who plays in a completely different style than your team played last year.

 

[Masbee]

Every team he has been on has been a running team. I cant remember if the Cavs were or not, it was before they were relevant. The only thing pathetic is totally disregarding an argument because it doesnt fit your liking.

Miller's rookie season the Cavs ran. They had Kemp, but he was inefficient offensively, so they were looking to get easy buckets anyway they could.

Next two seasons, the team had Big Z back and they slowed the pace down to average for the league. I think this shows that Miller is versatile and can run an offense to get a worthwhile big involved.

Traded to Clippers and - again - Pace was average for league. Team had Brand, but only 60 games. Team also had Magette and Odom, but only half a season each. That team tried all kinds of things. Run a half-court set. Those crazy sobs actually called plays for Kandiman. Ran plays for Brand. But, also tried to run to take advantage of Magette and Odom in the open court, or when injuries wrecked their offense. No wonder that team failed.

Next season signs with the Nuggets and - yes - the team ran. But, man, that's what the Nuggets do, Miller or no Miller - most years - the Nuggets are going to run.

So Miller ran with the team. And really, they had no choice as that team was very young with players that would have been terrible in the half-court set - 19 yr Carmello, 21 yr Nene. Also, Boykins, Camby and Birdman who do well running.

By his 3rd and final season with the team, they had slowed the pace back down to - wait for it - leage average. It could have worked well for them that season, but their front line battled major injury all season.

Off to the 76ers and 3 seasons there. Pace under Cheeks was 20th or 21st all three years.

It is a myth that team "ran". They tried to run when they had an opportunity to take advantage of their athletic players and hide their relative weakness in the half-court sets, but this was not a SSOL or old school Denver style offense.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/millean02.html

So, now we have Miller. And, yes this will be the slowest team he has been on. It might not be the perfect fit. But, I hardly think it will be some sort of train wreck that some are implying. Miller has shown the ability to play well on teams rated the No. 1 Pace in the league and teams with the 21st rated Pace in the league. I think he can figure out how to be a positive in Nate's system. In fact, I am sure of it.

 

[MIXUM]

i think this thread has gotten way off topic or at least seems to have turned into 3 or 4 different topics.


it was suppose to be my recap/return of the summer lol


amazing though... i started this thread on monday and its still at the top with 2,000 + views. awwww u guys did miss me!!!!

 

[STOMP]

I guess I dont see what is silly about questioning the addition a starting PG who plays in a completely different style than your team played last year.

come on dude, don't pretend to be obtuse. Teams largely play the way they do because of the talent that they have. If Steve Blake is your PG, you're not going to fastbreak much because (relative to other NBA PGs) he's slow, not a great passer and can't finish. Roy Batum & Lamarcus are all above average NBA athletes/finishers at their respective positions and Portland led the league in rebounding differential last season. The results of adding a PG that can both push the ball and finish to whats in place will not be surprising.... they're going to get a lot more easy baskets in the first 7 seconds of the shotclock. When they're in half court sets, Miller will give them another proven player who can create for himself and others. They've a team stacked with outside shooting to compliment his ability to drive and dish.

The reason he was the most talked about UFA last spring here at the S2 Blazer board is because he made a ton of sense. I'm sure some fans are very concerned about how he's going to work out here... they should be

STOMP

 

[mook]

Come crunch time, I'd expect we'll see more of Rudy and Blake then Miller.

STOMP

I don't really know about that. I suspect Nate will go with who has been hot that game more than anything else.

If neither Miller nor Blake have been playing well, then yeah, you go with Blake because in his worse off-night he's still a guy who can kill three pointers in the fourth quarter. Robert Horry made a career out of doing that.

 

[Blazer_Hippie]

I don't really know about that. I suspect Nate will go with who has been hot that game more than anything else.

Isn't that kind of anti-Nate? It seems to me he was frequently yanking "hot" players in favor of maintaining a consistent rotation...

That said, I think who is in at the end will vary depending on situation and who we're playing. Having 2 distinctly different PGs will be fun to watch!

 

[STOMP]

I don't really know about that. I suspect Nate will go with who has been hot that game more than anything else.

If neither Miller nor Blake have been playing well, then yeah, you go with Blake because in his worse off-night he's still a guy who can kill three pointers in the fourth quarter. Robert Horry made a career out of doing that.

Nate's favorite 4th quarter play has been Roy iso at the top of the key surrounded by shooters and Joel/Greg setting a pick... sometimes it seems thats exclusively what they run with the game on the line. It's proven pretty tough to keep someone on Portland from getting an open look or Roy a layup so I suspect he's going to keep it as his primary crunch time play. If the ball is going to be in Roy's hands primarily with the game on the line, I suspect they'll be putting their best spread the court shooters around him... and thats not Andre.

STOMP

 

[mook]

Seems to me he runs a pretty set rotation for quarters 1-3, and then tends to favor who was hot in the fourth quarter. Generally speaking, though, he tends to slide Aldridge to center and leave Pryz/Oden on the bench. Probably because Oden was foul-prone and neither were reliable free throw shooters, and Outlaw generally did pretty well in crunch time at PF.

 

[Colonel Ronan]

Welcome back, MIXUM, now I can finally use my moderator tools...

 

[Eastoff]

Isn't that kind of anti-Nate? It seems to me he was frequently yanking "hot" players in favor of maintaining a consistent rotation...

That said, I think who is in at the end will vary depending on situation and who we're playing. Having 2 distinctly different and good PGs will be fun to watch!

I agree with your first part, and fixed your second part.

 

[Eastoff]

Seems to me he runs a pretty set rotation for quarters 1-3, and then tends to favor who was hot in the fourth quarter. Generally speaking, though, he tends to slide Aldridge to center and leave Pryz/Oden on the bench. Probably because Oden was foul-prone and neither were reliable free throw shooters, and Outlaw generally did pretty well in crunch time at PF.

Yeah i could see

Blake
Roy
Fernandez
Outlaw/Batum
Aldridge

being the ideal 4th quarter combo

 

[BrianFromWA]

I think the only way Oden's not on the floor in that rotation is if he's shown he can't stay out of foul trouble.

 

[DaRizzle]

So when do ElCap and myself get our apologies STOMP and several others? (about Andre Miller)