Think your taxes are too high?

[barfo]

Re: Think your taxes are too high!

I take it you didn't realize I was responding to Barfo. And I also take it you haven't read much of his posts in this OT forum. He's never seen a government program he didn't want everybody else to pay for.

That's not actually true. For example, I didn't want everybody to pay for the war in Iraq.

The idea that raising taxes will fix the problem is completely wrong. This is why I didn't take much time reading your transcript. Once the numbers show it doesn't work, what is the point in reading somebody's false opinion? Take a look at the current income tax revenue compared to the deficit. Now double the income tax revenue and see if we still have a deficit. It just plain doesn't work. And Barfo calling people "whiners" for realizing this is pretty lame.

You seem to not realize that we've been in a recession. As a result of that, tax revenue is temporarily depressed and government spending was temporarily increased. Your comparisons are true this year, but they won't be true in the future as revenue rises and the temporary spending goes away.

barfo

 

[blazerboy30]

Re: Think your taxes are too high!

That's not actually true. For example, I didn't want everybody to pay for the war in Iraq.



You seem to not realize that we've been in a recession. As a result of that, tax revenue is temporarily depressed and government spending was temporarily increased. Your comparisons are true this year, but they won't be true in the future as revenue rises and the temporary spending goes away.

barfo

What are you projecting for GDP growth in that analysis?

 

[Denny Crane]

Re: Think your taxes are too high!

That's not actually true. For example, I didn't want everybody to pay for the war in Iraq.



You seem to not realize that we've been in a recession. As a result of that, tax revenue is temporarily depressed and government spending was temporarily increased. Your comparisons are true this year, but they won't be true in the future as revenue rises and the temporary spending goes away.

barfo

The worst of both worlds. Look at what BB30 is saying. The proposal is to raise taxes at the same time tax revenues are decreased. Meaning whatever engine there is for growing us out of the recession is going to be handcuffed to a huge degree. Grow the economy and the tax revenues grow without touching tax rates.

 

[barfo]

Re: Think your taxes are too high!

The worst of both worlds.

Yes, recessions are bad things.

Look at what BB30 is saying. The proposal is to raise taxes at the same time tax revenues are decreased. Meaning whatever engine there is for growing us out of the recession is going to be handcuffed to a huge degree.

Prove it. I think you've got it backwards. The wealthy (and corporations) have lots of cash, but aren't spending it. Why? No demand to justify the investment. If the government takes some of that cash, the government will spend it (on that we surely agree), and such spending will have a, shall we say, stimulating effect on the economy.

Grow the economy and the tax revenues grow without touching tax rates.

Yes, that's correct. Now all you have to do is figure out how to grow the economy! [Oh, I know, more tax cuts, right? Worked so well last time...]

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Why aren't corporations spending their money? I can think of two reasons. One, Obama might come out and tell everyone "Don't go to Vegas" and kill the businesses there (or anywhere else). Two, Obama might take the business you invested in and give it to a Union.

 

[barfo]

Why aren't corporations spending their money? I can think of two reasons. One, Obama might come out and tell everyone "Don't go to Vegas" and kill the businesses there (or anywhere else). Two, Obama might take the business you invested in and give it to a Union.

Not only those two, but Obama might merge Kenya and the USA and declare himself King of Kenya-usa. Sharia law, baby, it's coming to Vegas!

barfo

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Why aren't corporations spending their money? I can think of two reasons. One, Obama might come out and tell everyone "Don't go to Vegas" and kill the businesses there (or anywhere else). Two, Obama might take the business you invested in and give it to a Union.

I believe that corporations are soon going to have to start spending. Their share holders are going to demand growth and increased returns. Just sitting on a pile of cash while treading water isn't going to cut it.

 

[Denny Crane]

Re: Think your taxes are too high!

Heck, the way the banking sector bailouts were done, the people on Main Street are being foreclosed on and going into bankruptcy while the big banks are buying up other banks and selling those foreclosures at a discount and destroying any equity people who have been paying their mortgages might have. With all those empty homes out there, there's less demand for all sorts of things, like stuff you buy to do home improvements (no incentive to do it for anyone), the neighborhood restaurants who have fewer customers (people living in the area), and so on.

The massive borrowing by the govt. is incentive to hang on to cash reserves. Investing in things where profits are gobbled up by impending high inflation and being on the hook to pay higher expenses down the road isn't very wise.

Businesses don't hire when they have a lot of inventory. In typical recoveries, the inventories are depleted and the companies have to hire again to replenish their stock in whatever it is they sell. Like the glut in homes inventory, there's a glut everywhere.

 

[Denny Crane]

I believe that corporations are soon going to have to start spending. Their share holders are going to demand growth and increased returns. Just sitting on a pile of cash while treading water isn't going to cut it.

Quality companies always stockpile cash. War chest, some call it.

The War Chests are used to buy up other companies, which actually loses jobs. Two companies merged together as one don't need 2x the accountants, 2x the executives, 2x the workers, etc. These types of economies of scale are a big reason why companies merge with others.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Quality companies always stockpile cash. War chest, some call it.

The War Chests are used to buy up other companies, which actually loses jobs. Two companies merged together as one don't need 2x the accountants, 2x the executives, 2x the workers, etc. These types of economies of scale are a big reason why companies merge with others.

Then why did you just ask why companies aren't spending their money?

 

[Denny Crane]

Then why did you just ask why companies aren't spending their money?

I didn't ask, barfo did. I know why.

BTW,

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304173704575577923494557684.html

Lazard Profit Surges 71%

NEW YORK—Lazard Ltd.'s profit rose 71% in the third quarter, as strong gains in fees from merger and strategic advisory assignments and in asset management overcame a sharp drop-off in revenue from restructuring activities.

The advisory boutique, known for shepherding clients like Qwest Communications International Inc., Honeywell International Inc. and Continental Airlines through mergers and other strategic changes, benefited from a reawakening of merger and acquisition activity.

 

[barfo]

I didn't ask, barfo did.

I didn't really ask, it was rhetorical.

barfo

 

[blazerboy30]

Re: Think your taxes are too high!

Prove it. I think you've got it backwards. The wealthy (and corporations) have lots of cash, but aren't spending it. Why? No demand to justify the investment. If the government takes some of that cash, the government will spend it (on that we surely agree), and such spending will have a, shall we say, stimulating effect on the economy.

Wow. You want to take existing capital that corporations and the wealthy already have? That is extreme, even for you, Barfo.

 

[barfo]

Re: Think your taxes are too high!

Wow. You want to take existing capital that corporations and the wealthy already have? That is extreme, even for you, Barfo.

No, you misunderstood. I'm not proposing anything. I'm just saying, if there were new taxes, it wouldn't hinder growth as Denny suggested, because the problem is not lack of capital. The problem is lack of demand. Letting those who have capital continue to sit on it is not going to increase demand.

But I'm not sure what you think is so "extreme" about taxes. That's what taxes are, taking "existing capital that corporations and the wealthy already have". Or did you think I was proposing to tax a percentage of liquid assets? I wasn't.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Re: Think your taxes are too high!

No, you misunderstood. I'm not proposing anything. I'm just saying, if there were new taxes, it wouldn't hinder growth as Denny suggested, because the problem is not lack of capital. The problem is lack of demand. Letting those who have capital sit on it is not going to increase demand.

But I'm not sure what you think is so "extreme" about taxes. That's what taxes are, taking "existing capital that corporations and the wealthy already have". Or did you think I was proposing to tax a percentage of liquid assets? I wasn't.

barfo

There's no such thing as excess capital. Just think of how much sooner GM would have gone under if they weren't putting away money when the times were good.

 

[barfo]

Re: Think your taxes are too high!

There's no such thing as excess capital. Just think of how much sooner GM would have gone under if they weren't putting away money when the times were good.

Sure, from the point of view of any given company, there is no such thing as too much money. [Actually, there is, but that's a different discussion].

But from the point of view of the economy, there is indeed a level of excess capital that begins to hurt the economy, and we are definitely right there.

It's better for me to save my money in uncertain times, but it is better for the economy if I spend, spend, spend.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Re: Think your taxes are too high!

Sure, from the point of view of any given company, there is no such thing as too much money. [Actually, there is, but that's a different discussion].

But from the point of view of the economy, there is indeed a level of excess capital that begins to hurt the economy, and we are definitely right there.

It's better for me to save my money in uncertain times, but it is better for the economy if I spend, spend, spend.

barfo

All those shovel ready jobs (WRECKLESS spending) should have given people money to buy essentials, like food and clothing and other things that would help the economy.

 

[barfo]

Re: Think your taxes are too high!

All those shovel ready jobs (WRECKLESS spending) should have given people money to buy essentials, like food and clothing and other things that would help the economy.

Would you have supported it had they passed that instead?

Really?

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Re: Think your taxes are too high!

Would you have supported it had they passed that instead?

Really?

barfo

The wreckless spending? No, I never supported it, and it's prove to have been a complete FAIL.

 

[barfo]

Re: Think your taxes are too high!

The wreckless spending? No, I never supported it, and it's prove to have been a complete FAIL.

Oh, I misread your last post - thought you were saying they should have given the money to people to buy essentials. Didn't sound like you, and I should have re-read it.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Re: Think your taxes are too high!

Oh, I misread your last post - thought you were saying they should have given the money to people to buy essentials. Didn't sound like you, and I should have re-read it.

barfo

They did give the money to people to buy essentials, no? Where did it go?

The first question was rhetorical.

 

[blazerboy30]

Re: Think your taxes are too high!

No, you misunderstood. I'm not proposing anything. I'm just saying, if there were new taxes, it wouldn't hinder growth as Denny suggested, because the problem is not lack of capital. The problem is lack of demand. Letting those who have capital continue to sit on it is not going to increase demand.

But I'm not sure what you think is so "extreme" about taxes. That's what taxes are, taking "existing capital that corporations and the wealthy already have". Or did you think I was proposing to tax a percentage of liquid assets? I wasn't.

barfo

I didn't misunderstand. You posted something incredibly stupid.

You said the government should be able to take the assets that a company or individual is sitting on or saving. That is a LOT different than how our current taxes work, which is a tax on transactions / income... ie: when money changes hands. Your suggestion was that we should just give the government the power to retroactively take what they like from somebody's savings. Nice.

 

[barfo]

Re: Think your taxes are too high!

I didn't misunderstand. You posted something incredibly stupid.

You said the government should be able to take the assets that a company or individual is sitting on or saving. That is a LOT different than how our current taxes work, which is a tax on transactions / income... ie: when money changes hands. Your suggestion was that we should just give the government the power to retroactively take what they like from somebody's savings. Nice.

You are wrong; you did misunderstand. I'm pretty sure I know better than you what I meant.

barfo

 

[blazerboy30]

Re: Think your taxes are too high!

You are wrong; you did misunderstand. I'm pretty sure I know better than you what I meant.

barfo

Then it would be good if your posts reflected a higher level of communication skills.

 

[barfo]

Re: Think your taxes are too high!

Then it would be good if your posts reflected a higher level of communication skills.

I will try to live up to your expectations in the future.

barfo

 

[blazerboy30]

Re: Think your taxes are too high!

I will try to live up to your expectations in the future.

barfo

"Please address the post, not the poster"

barfo

 

[barfo]

Re: Think your taxes are too high!

I will try to live up to your post's expectations in the future.

barfo

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Re: Think your taxes are too high!

I will try to live up to your post's expectations in the future.

barfo

Kinky!

 

[Minstrel]

Re: Think your taxes are too high!

I will try to live up to your post's expectations in the future.

I can't promise to try...but I promise I'll try to try.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Not only those two, but Obama might merge Kenya and the USA and declare himself King of Kenya-usa. Sharia law, baby, it's coming to Vegas!

barfo

But not to Oklahoma.