This guy most likely saved lives

[Natebishop3]

That's why you'll never be a real hero.

Nate has no respect for you now.

Actually, I never said that charging the guy was a smart move. I think what he did was the smartest and bravest thing he could do. He didn't take a dangerous shot, he protected people as best he could, and he rode out the situation. Not sure why we're criticizing the guy, but I think he did a great job for someone in a very shitty situation.

 

[PapaG]

Ummmm.... because he shot up a shopping mall.

Prior to his crime.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

and really bc, let the courts decide if he is fit to be in prison

im sure there are plenty of other murderers that would love your compassion though

My point, which will be trampled on in this den of fucking howler monkeys, is that wishing a lifelong gang-rape on somebody is fucking uncivilized. WE ARE BETTER THAN THAT.

 

[Hobbesarable]

No it's meant for me.

Ahh, "bc." I get it now. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

and to be clear, im not advocating he be raped for gods sake, although im sure he would be

but the fear that they could get caught and go to prison could stop hopefully the next guy from doing this bullshit

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Prior to his crime.

He stole an AR-15 to shoot up a shopping mall?

 

[julius]

Well, any murder is irrational. I'd say that a serial killer is more mentally ill than somebody who has a one-off incident like this one.

I'd agree. But that doesn't mean he wasn't mentally ill.

 

[PapaG]

Actually, I never said that charging the guy was a smart move. I think what he did was the smartest and bravest thing he could do. He didn't take a dangerous shot, he protected people as best he could, and he rode out the situation. Not sure why we're criticizing the guy, but I think he did a great job for someone in a very shitty situation.

Those criticizing the guy know they'd shit their pants and probably hide behind women and children in a situation like the guy with the CCW experienced. It's textbook deflection.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

and to be clear, im not advocating he be raped for gods sake, although im sure he would be

but the fear that they could get caught and go to prison could stop hopefully the next guy from doing this bullshit

Thank you for backing off your stupid tough-guy rhetoric. It's really stupid.

This assumes the mentally ill are even wired to fear like that. Depending on the fear, depending on the desperation, that would be at best a vague deterrent, and at worst no deterrent at all.

 

[PapaG]

He stole an AR-15 to shoot up a shopping mall?

I'm talking about a clinical diagnosis. Everybody that knew the guy says he was just a normal guy, and he is basically described as "happy". I keep reading about getting help for the mentally ill, but how do you help someone who exhibits no symptoms until they go bonkers? Do we just screen everybody and lump them into groups of mental conditions?

 

[Natebishop3]

yeah, THE guns, not ALL guns.

Okay, and you could have cleared that up, but instead went on a rant about how I claimed you said things you didn't, and insinuating that I think everyone who wants restrictions on guns actually wants them banned entirely.

 

[PapaG]

Thank you for backing off your stupid tough-guy rhetoric. It's really stupid.

This assumes the mentally ill are even wired to fear like that. Depending on the fear, depending on the desperation, that would be at best a vague deterrent, and at worst no deterrent at all.

So is anybody who kills somebody mentally ill? I don't get where you're going with this.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Those criticizing the guy know they'd shit their pants and probably hide behind women and children in a situation like the guy with the CCW experienced. It's textbook deflection.

There is it. The gun-control crowd as bowel-evacuator argument. I'm surprised it took this long.

Thanks for choosing bowels instead of bladder, since that one was used in the other thread already.

 

[RoyToy]

Is there some kind of conclusion that you draw from this, Nate?

 

[BlazerCaravan]

I don't get where you're going with this.

I'm trying to care about your thought process, but I can't muster the enthusiasm.

 

[PapaG]

I think in terms of the Clackamas shooting, it's more about morality and social values, including respecting the value of a life, than it is the shooter being mentally crazy yet hiding it for 22 years from everybody who knew him.

Talking about cultural norms and values is a conversation nobody wants to have, though. Guns have been around for as long as this country, yet these random acts of mass violence are relatively new to America. Since guns are used, there is obviously correlation, but there is no way that a legitimate case can be made for causation.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Actually, I never said that charging the guy was a smart move. I think what he did was the smartest and bravest thing he could do. He didn't take a dangerous shot, he protected people as best he could, and he rode out the situation. Not sure why we're criticizing the guy, but I think he did a great job for someone in a very shitty situation.

I'm just giving you shit. It's fine if you think that guy is a hero. I don't but I tend to be a skeptic. I'm not buying that the gun used in the CTC shooting was stolen (but willing to change my opinion once I hear more) and I'm not buying that some guy who claims to be the reason why the shooter shot himself.

And one final thing, I would say that our views on gun control and ownership are fairly close. Like I said, the failure in these two shootings wasn't the gun laws, it was the gun owners.

 

[Natebishop3]

Is there some kind of conclusion that you draw from this, Nate?

I think his presence with the gun most likely hurried the guy out of the food court and led to nobody else being shot after he managed to clear his weapon.

 

[PapaG]

There is it. The gun-control crowd as bowel-evacuator argument. I'm surprised it took this long.

Thanks for choosing bowels instead of bladder, since that one was used in the other thread already.

I'm not the one taking a dump on a guy who told his story about his experience in the mall.

 

[RoyToy]

I think his presence with the gun most likely hurried the guy out of the food court and led to nobody else being shot after he managed to clear his weapon.

Got it.

Just wondering.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

that would be at best a vague deterrent, and at worst no deterrent at all.

kind of like banning assault rifles

 

[PapaG]

I'm trying to care about your thought process, but I can't muster the enthusiasm.

You seem to think that killing someone means that somebody is mentally ill.

I don't think you understand what goes into diagnosing somebody as being mentally ill.

I mean, sure, it's crazy to shoot up a mall, but does that mean the person was mentally ill? I don't think it's that simple, but judging from your posts, you aren't interested in diving into deeper root causes.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I think in terms of the Clackamas shooting, it's more about morality and social values, including respecting the value of a life, than it is the shooter being mentally crazy yet hiding it for 22 years from everybody who knew him.

There are many mental diseases and/or defects that don't manifest in a person until they are in their early 20's.

 

[julius]

Those criticizing the guy know they'd shit their pants and probably hide behind women and children in a situation like the guy with the CCW experienced. It's textbook deflection.

which is different from what you're doing right now....how? You're deflecting from what we're talking about by implying that because we are having a difference of opinion than you we're somehow cowards?

good luck with that train of logic

 

[julius]

Okay, and you could have cleared that up, but instead went on a rant about how I claimed you said things you didn't, and insinuating that I think everyone who wants restrictions on guns actually wants them banned entirely.

you smell like booze! quit drinking on the job.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

I'm not the one taking a dump on a guy who told his story about his experience in the mall.

I know this thread is a total fuckfest, but I never said anything with regards to the original post, the guy's claims, or their potential validity.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I'm not the one taking a dump on a guy who told his story about his experience in the mall.

Just like I'm not ready to proclaim someone a hero based off the same story.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Thank you for backing off your stupid tough-guy rhetoric. It's really stupid.

dude, its not my fault you are extrapolating on my posts in your mind

 

[RoyToy]

I do think it takes a different kind of person to be carrying a gun at all times (excluding cops etc)

Not that it's good or bad

 

[PapaG]

There are many mental diseases and/or defects that don't manifest in a person until they are in their early 20's.

Sure, but you have no way of knowing if he was mentally ill, yet the claim seems to be that it is a fact.