This sucker is absolutely dangerous! Shouldn't be allowed to speak to young people!

[dviss1]

I will give it a go. Let us break it down one teaching moment at a time that was squandered.
Start with Ferguson.

The Black Kid robs a store in his neighborhood (Korean owner but...) then he is feeling big and bad walking down the middle of the street, bodacious as can be. Of course he attracts the attention of a cop. Not only can he not simply follow an order to get out of the street because that isn't bodacious, he has to step it up, attack the cop. Where did this boy learn this behavior ? Well, did you see that fellow that was standing on the truck, calling to burn the sucker down? Burn the sucker Down! That was dad (stepdad)! Ah! perhaps the learning began here and it ended with the kid, bodacious as can be, to the end, dead in the street. Riddled by gun fire from one lone, scared cop. (another story here for another day).

How many teaching opportunities are there here for the man that has the bully pulpit and the ear of the entire Black population in the Nation?
What did he do with it? I can't see a damn thing that was learn by anyone. The moment past again.

Many moments have passed over the past eight years and not one was used to teach. The agendas were polished, ban guns, bad cops, poor Blacks, but no teaching.

Another media story where you've used conjecture to form your opinion.

Newsflash about black people:

We run.

Away.

We don't run toward the shooting. I know some people who have fear of us might believe some stupid shit like we'd attack a cop with a gun but what the fuck ever...

 

[Denny Crane]

Hilarious. EVERYONE knows those wars were put on the credit card.

No they weren't. Lefties say Bush squandered the surplus he was left by Clinton.

Do the math:

$254B surplus/year minus $100B/year cost of wars leaves $154B in surplus.

 

[MarAzul]

You are right dviss, we don't need to target Black people with jobs, we need policy that allows jobs in this country. A lot of people need work.
Vote for Trump, I do believe he will do it much better for all the folks.

 

[Denny Crane]

Our infrastructure is crumbling. If you don't know there are shovel ready jobs right now then you don't have a clue. Right as we speak our Fremont Bridge need to be replaced.

The biggest spending bill in the history of the United States government, before Obama's several that blew up the debt massively, was an infrastructure bill passed by republican congress and signed by W.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/8894520/ns/politics/t/bush-signs-billion-highway-bill/#.VztahKODFBc

 

[e_blazer]

Please tell me what the correlation is between black on black crime and police violence.

Come on, you're way too smart not to understand that there's a correlation between these two things. Police have a job to do protecting the general population (regardless of race) from criminal activity. If you have an area of town where there's frequent black-on-black shootings because of gang activity or whatever other reason, the police are going to step up patrols and be more on alert for anything that strikes them as being off. That kid walking down the street with an Airsoft gun that looks for all the world like a real Beretta is way more likely to be treated as a threat than the kid in the 'burbs carrying the same air gun. Some guy running down the street after dark is way more likely to be treated with suspicion in a neighborhood that has frequent violence than he would be in an area of town where crime seldom occurs.

Cops are human beings and they do a job that is sometimes dangerous. They have to make split second decisions that can result in life or death either for a citizen or themselves. Some small percentage of them are no doubt racist assholes who shouldn't be allowed to carry a badge. Most are people just trying to do the job they've been trained for well and come home safe at the end of their shift. None of them want the kind of heat that comes their way when they make a bad decision and some innocent person is injured or killed. Ratcheting down the violence in our communities, white or black, would make it much easier to avoid unwanted police violence.

 

[dviss1]

You are right dviss, we don't need to target Black people with jobs, we need policy that allows jobs in this country. A lot of people need work.
Vote for Trump, I do believe he will do it much better for all the folks.

We don't agree here. I never said it wasn't needed I simply provided the reason why Obama has not produced targeted legislating. Politics. That's why. I believe in specifically targeted legislation. Same as equal pay for women.

You gotta be fucking kidding me. I would never award my vote to that racist piece of shit.

 

[MarAzul]

Another media story where you've used conjecture to form your opinion.

Actually I use the image of the gun shot wounds to form the posture of the victim when perforated.
But Ok, I fail to communicate with you again.

We don't run toward the shooting.

Actually I think you might be stretching the use of we here. And overlooking the teaching moment.
Got to go.

 

[dviss1]

Come on, you're way too smart not to understand that there's a correlation between these two things. Police have a job to do protecting the general population (regardless of race) from criminal activity. If you have an area of town where there's frequent black-on-black shootings because of gang activity or whatever other reason, the police are going to step up patrols and be more on alert for anything that strikes them as being off. That kid walking down the street with an Airsoft gun that looks for all the world like a real Beretta is way more likely to be treated as a threat than the kid in the 'burbs carrying the same air gun. Some guy running down the street after dark is way more likely to be treated with suspicion in a neighborhood that has frequent violence than he would be in an area of town where crime seldom occurs.

Cops are human beings and they do a job that is sometimes dangerous. They have to make split second decisions that can result in life or death either for a citizen or themselves. Some small percentage of them are no doubt racist assholes who shouldn't be allowed to carry a badge. Most are people just trying to do the job they've been trained for well and come home safe at the end of their shift. None of them want the kind of heat that comes their way when they make a bad decision and some innocent person is injured or killed. Ratcheting down the violence in our communities, white or black, would make it much easier to avoid unwanted police violence.

Just because you have more police Patrols in those areas doesn't mean that they handle the situations correctly. A man who's selling cigarettes outside of the store doesn't need to be choked to death. That had nothing to do with black on black crime. Their actions after they are there are always their responsibility. The way that they police us is complete bullshit. And you act like you've never seen video of black people getting shot that haven't done anything. The kid laquan McDonald was walking away from the police when he was shot. They could have taken him into custody. The way that police handle shit in this country is atrocious.

 

[MarAzul]

I would never award my vote to that racist piece of shit.

Well then, I guess you are stuck hoping for a grand blessing to come.

 

[Denny Crane]

We don't agree here. I never said it wasn't needed I simply provided the reason why Obama has not produced targeted legislating. Politics. That's why. I believe in specifically targeted legislation. Same as equal pay for women.

You gotta be fucking kidding me. I would never award my vote to that racist piece of shit.

You're right about Trump, but...


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Pay_Act_of_1963

 

[dviss1]

Actually I use the image of the gun shot wounds to form the posture of the victim when perforated.
But Ok, I fail to communicate with you again.

So getting shot in the top of your head automatically means that you're bull rushing the person that is shooting? Or does it mean that you were shot in your stomach first and that you doubled over?
Yeah... Again We don't run toward cops with guns. Ask Aaron Campbell and Michael Scott... Oh wait... You can't... They're dead...

Actually I think you might be stretching the use of we here. And overlooking the teaching moment.
Got to go.

I'm not overlooking any teaching moment. Black people have to teach our children something that you all do not. How to handle police because we know they will eventually be involved with some type of police contact. We teach our children all the time. Stop using the TV to learn. It's not helping.

 

[e_blazer]

Just because you have more police Patrols in those areas doesn't mean that they handle the situations correctly. A man who's selling cigarettes outside of the store doesn't need to be choked to death. That had nothing to do with black on black crime. Their actions after they are there are always their responsibility. The way that they police us is complete bullshit. And you act like you've never seen video of black people getting shot that haven't done anything. The kid laquan McDonald was walking away from the police when he was shot. They could have taken him into custody. The way that police handle shit in this country is atrocious.

Incidents like those appear to me to be cases where the cops involved should be charged with crimes. There are clearly cases where cops have gotten out of control and committed acts that are not within their roles as police officers. I'm 100 percent for holding cops accountable in those cases. But you know damned well that not all cops, or even the majority of cops, are like that. Using incidents like the ones you noted to demand that police improve what they do and spend more effort rooting out the bad ones in their midst is great. But don't pretend that there aren't things that can be improved in your own communities to make things better as well. This is a problem that has a lot of contributing factors and it's going to take leaders from all walks of life to get a handle on it and make it better. That's all I'm saying.

 

[dviss1]

Well then, I guess you are stuck hoping for a grand blessing to come.

No, I don't wait for a sky spirits to bless me.

 

[dviss1]

Incidents like those appear to me to be cases where the cops involved should be charged with crimes. There are clearly cases where cops have gotten out of control and committed acts that are not within their roles as police officers. I'm 100 percent for holding cops accountable in those cases. But you know damned well that not all cops, or even the majority of cops, are like that. Using incidents like the ones you noted to demand that police improve what they do and spend more effort rooting out the bad ones in their midst is great. But don't pretend that there aren't things that can be improved in your own communities to make things better as well. This is a problem that has a lot of contributing factors and it's going to take leaders from all walks of life to get a handle on it and make it better. That's all I'm saying.

How police respond to any incident is completely on them and their training. Again, black people teach their children to stay the fuck away from the cops. The problem is we're tired of being treated like shit. The 14 year old girl that was held up against the car and choked the other day deserves justice. She committed the horrible crime of riding her bike while black. People will try to use the logic that we will not let Syrian refugees into our country because one of them might be a terrorist. If you have that type of idea, how don't you understand that we are afraid of ALL police because we don't know which one of them might be a murderer?

 

[Stevenson]

What is it about you guys that you love to take one sentence out of context and pretend it signals some huge, profound, hidden truth about Obama? It's so strange.

Here's the deal: He's a career politician, a great dad, Christian, leans center-left, respects the office a great deal, and the country is doing pretty good. Get over it.

 

[WarriorFan]

Just because you have more police Patrols in those areas doesn't mean that they handle the situations correctly. A man who's selling cigarettes outside of the store doesn't need to be choked to death. That had nothing to do with black on black crime. Their actions after they are there are always their responsibility. The way that they police us is complete bullshit. .

I know it's anectodal but when I was in school taking a minority studies class (I forget the actual title of the class) the professor was saying the same thing. This was at the time when that Harvard professor got arrested trying to get into his own house. Professor was saying that blacks are treated poorly and making many of the same points you are. Anyway, there was a white kid in the class in a wheelchair who was getting all worked up saying cops can be far to violent and quick to shoot but it's not targeted at blacks. Turns out he ended up in the wheelchair becuase he was walking home at night carrying a sword, don't ask me why but he had one, and had headphones on. Cops told him to stop walking, he didn't hear, so they shot. Being shot at and not knowing why he tried to run, and then crawl away but they kept shooting. Shot him 9 times and paralyzed him.

My point in bringing it up is that, racist assholes aside, I think there are far more events where police are just scared and their judgement is clouded by it. We can say they are trained for that but then again, it's not our life on the line.

 

[dviss1]

there are far more events where police are just scared and their judgement is clouded by it. We can say they are trained for that but then again, it's not our life on the line.

What happened in the wheelchair person's instance is an anomaly. One in a million chance that would happen. With regard to the above bolded statement, if you're scared, go to church. Don't be a police officer.

And are they REALLY trained? You should be have more than 21 weeks of fucking training to handle that shit. Why do ER doctors go to 6+ years of school? In Oregon, Police Academy is 16 weeks... 16 weeks, gun and a badge.... I'm sorry, but I believe our police officers should have to have a four-year degree and make 70-80K. Train for 4 years, get paid for it and you won't do something stupid to lose it.

 

[Denny Crane]

What is it about you guys that you love to take one sentence out of context and pretend it signals some huge, profound, hidden truth about Obama? It's so strange.

Here's the deal: He's a career politician, a great dad, Christian, leans center-left, respects the office a great deal, and the country is doing pretty good. Get over it.

Oddly, a majority of americans have considered Obama not trustworthy or honest until this election cycle. I guess in comparison to Hiliar & Trump, he looks better.

EDIT: I generally think we were lied into ObamaCare (you can keep your doctor, etc.), but generally Obama is a good and honest man. Just wrongheaded political ideas.

 

[WarriorFan]

What happened in the wheelchair persons instance is an anomaly. One in a million chance that would happen. With regard to the above bolded statement, if you're scared, go to church. Don't be a police officer. You should be trained with more than 21 weeks of fucking training to handle that shit. Why do ER doctors go to 8 years of school? In Oregon, Police Academy is 16 weeks... I'm sorry, but I believe our police officers should have to have a four-year degree and make 70-80K. Train for 4 years, get paid for it and you won't do something stupid to lose it.

Agreed that they could use a lot more training but no matter how much training you have, I think it's unreasonable to expect them to not be scared when they know their life could be on the line. How much training would it take for you to be put in that situation and not be nervous? Especially considering these aren't military guys who see a lot of action, they may be put in this situation once or twice in their lives.

Yeah, the kid in my class is an anomaly. I think the Eric Garners or the guy that was shot at Oakland bart station are anomalies too, we just hear about it more when there is a political angle.

 

[e_blazer]

How police respond to any incident is completely on them and their training. Again, black people teach their children to stay the fuck away from the cops. The problem is we're tired of being treated like shit. The 14 year old girl that was held up against the car and choked the other day deserves justice. She committed the horrible crime of riding her bike while black. People will try to use the logic that we will not let Syrian refugees into our country because one of them might be a terrorist. If you have that type of idea, how don't you understand that we are afraid of ALL police because we don't know which one of them might be a murderer?

Listen, dviss1, I'm a 63 year old white dude who's never experienced what it's like to be black and poor, or even lived in a neighborhood where that was the predominant population. I don't KNOW anything of consequence about how or why you feel the way you do about cops. I hear what you say and a lot of it rings true. I DO KNOW that I want the situation to get better. I also KNOW that in any endeavor I've been involved with in my life, nothing good happens until people start listening to each other and look for solutions. I, for one, am willing to support any and all efforts to make it better. There are a lot of white people who feel the same. That said, it doesn't get the black community out of it's responsibility to help by making changes from within. Yell like hell when there's an injustice and demand investigations and, where warranted, arrests of cops who cross the line. But unless we work together to try to make things better, nothing much is going to change.

 

[dviss1]

That said, it doesn't get the black community out of it's responsibility to help by making changes from within. Yell like hell when there's an injustice and demand investigations and, where warranted, arrests of cops who cross the line. But unless we work together to try to make things better, nothing much is going to change.

You're correct, you don't know what's going on in our community nor what we teach our children. What you don't understand is that we've made these changes already. Just because you see some kids steal from the store doesn't mean that only black kids are doing it. And, even if he did steal from the store, he doesn't deserve to be shot for it. And if you think that he was bull rushing an armed officer like marAzul thinks, then I don't know where we go from there. People talk about black on black crime but white on white crime is less than 10% lower. Police are scared for absolutely no reason. Wilson was scared and that's why Brown is dead. My friend's brother James Perez was unarmed and killed by police 97 seconds after he was pulled over. Why was he tased AFTER he was shot? Cause the punk police officer was afraid of what a scary (unarmed) black man might do.

What people never talk about is the fact that police already have a description of the perp before they even have contact with them. And that they get to prepare their mind for a potential situation before it even occurs.

 

[H.C.]

What happened in the wheelchair person's instance is an anomaly. One in a million chance that would happen. With regard to the above bolded statement, if you're scared, go to church. Don't be a police officer.

And are they REALLY trained? You should be have more than 21 weeks of fucking training to handle that shit. Why do ER doctors go to 6+ years of school? In Oregon, Police Academy is 16 weeks... 16 weeks, gun and a badge.... I'm sorry, but I believe our police officers should have to have a four-year degree and make 70-80K. Train for 4 years, get paid for it and you won't do something stupid to lose it.

I find it very disturbing when anyone minimizes any situation like this.
Doesn't matter if it's one in a million, the fact the police shot any unarmed being is wrong. Wrong is wrong, it doesn't discriminate.
I don't think that's what you meant by it, as I've read many things you've said in the past.
But that statement does indeed come across like you're attempting to do so.. At least to me.

 

[dviss1]

I find it very disturbing when anyone minimizes any situation like this.
Doesn't matter if it's one in a million, the fact the police shot any unarmed being is wrong. Wrong is wrong, it doesn't discriminate.
I don't think that's what you meant by it, as I've read many things you've said in the past.
But that statement does indeed come across like you're attempting to do so.. At least to me.

I didn't minimize anything. I simply said the truth. It is an anomaly. Should it be handled correctly on a case-by-case basis?Of course. Did I argue against that? What the fuck are you talking about? Stop deflecting.

 

[Denny Crane]

I didn't minimize anything. I simply said the truth. It is an anomaly. Should it be handled correctly on a case-by-case basis?Of course. Did I argue against that? What the fuck are you talking about? Stop deflecting.

How do you like the screen name "honkicracker?"

 

[H.C.]

I didn't minimize anything. I simply said the truth. It is an anomaly. Should it be handled correctly on a case-by-case basis?Of course. Did I argue against that? What the fuck are you talking about? Stop deflecting.

I think you need to calm down because I'm not deflecting.
However comments like you just made can be said differently, especially when I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

I was simply pointing something out what bothered me and wanted clarification, because the post I quoted is far from clear and leaves grey area.
To me it didn't seem like you were treating all unjust police violence equally. Which from my post, I obviously have a real problem with.
Apologies for not being more clear on what I was saying.

 

[H.C.]

How do you like the screen name "honkicracker?"

Both can be deemed racist.
Choose to deem them what you wish.

 

[dviss1]

How do you like the screen name "honkicracker?"

I think it's stupid but hey it's his right.

 

[Denny Crane]

Honky:
1. the word originated from the practice of white males wishing to hire African-American prostitutes in the 1920's, and going to the appropriate part of town while honking their car horns to attract the whores. Some versions state that the reason for this was that the white men were too afraid to actually stop in those neighborhoods, so the honking would bring the hookers to them. Others say that since few African-Americans could afford cars back in that time, the honking signaled a higher-paying white client and would quickly gain the prostitutes attention.
2. the term comes from the word "honky-tonk", which was used as early as 1875 in reference to wild saloons in the Old West. Patrons of such disreputable establishments were referred to as "honkies", not intended as a racial slur but still a disparaging term.

Both can be deemed racist.
Choose to deem them what you wish.

As I wrote earlier, people throw the word "racist" around to the point its meaning is diluted.

Both words (honky and cracker) are not racist. They are disparaging terms, though. Like the word "moron."

 

[H.C.]

As I wrote earlier, people throw the word "racist" around to the point its meaning is diluted.

Both words (honky and cracker) are not racist. They are disparaging terms, though. Like the word "moron."

So the word black slaves were called is a disparaging term. Not a racist remark. Okay. You're allowed to have your opinion. I support it.
My opinion however is, that word is racist.

 

[Denny Crane]

So the word black slaves were called is a disparaging term. Not a racist remark. Okay. You're allowed to have your opinion. I support it.
My opinion however is, that word is racist.

They're not equivalent by a long shot.