Toronto is a good example of why we should stay the course

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CupWizier said:
Disagree.
Click to expand...

Okay, how about offense:

Last two years at GS (about same age as CJ)
25pts; 5+asst; 2+stl; 5 reb

CJ
22pts; 4 asst; 1 stl; 4 reb

I will give you that CJ has a slightly higher eFG% and not as many turnovers/game. But, you can't say that CJ was clearly a much better player than Monta.
 
Mediocre Man said:
In what way other than 3pt shooting?
Click to expand...

Why would you say “other than 3pt shooting “? That’s a huge skill in today’s NBA and CJ is much better at it than Ellis. On that basis alone he’s the superior player.
 
Mediocre Man said:
Just thought you'd like to talk basketball, since you complained about others not doing it.

Was that you? You all run together
Click to expand...
Let me ask you this. If you had a choice of Ellis at 26 or McCollum at 26 who would you choose.
 
CupWizier said:
Let me ask you this. If you had a choice of Ellis at 26 or McCollum at 26 who would you choose.
Click to expand...
Let's compare CJ at 26 to Ellis at 25--his last full year in Oakland
http://bkref.com/tiny/a6zBn

upload_2018-5-8_14-14-43.png
upload_2018-5-8_14-15-8.png
upload_2018-5-8_14-15-29.png

Raw stats favor Ellis, pace adjusted and advanced stats are both pretty close. Really not much separation either way.
 
Reep said:
You honestly believe CJ is a plus defender at the SG position?
Click to expand...
Like i said i hate defensive stats. But CJ indeed does actually defend his position as opposed to other shooting guards that do not even try to defend players of that caliber. Very well used argument on defense states the problems when you try to validate a "Plus Defender" when every game you play you are coming up against some of the greatest scoring players in the game at the very highest level.
I believe CJ has indeed improved on the defensive end. He does little things that create disruptions that give players he is guarding problems. However he is only 6'-3" so he has his limitations. He is smart and willing to make a smart move like the one he was penalized heavily for in game four. That should have been a common playoff foul. CJ understands the game very well.
Now if you would like i can make a statistical comparison to Monta Ellis but why? Defensive stats and situations are garbage at best. And in the end the offensive production pretty much makes this a mute point at best.
Monta Ellis's career defensive rating is 109
CJ's career defensive rating is 110
I would much rather have CJ on the Blazers.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Let's compare CJ at 26 to Ellis at 25--his last full year in Oakland
http://bkref.com/tiny/a6zBn

View attachment 20570
View attachment 20571
View attachment 20572

Raw stats favor Ellis, pace adjusted and advanced stats are both pretty close. Really not much separation either way.
Click to expand...
That is awesome work. And really it's the point i was making. But defensive stats really are tough to rely on.
In the end they are pretty close but CJ is a much better offensive player.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Let's compare CJ at 26 to Ellis at 25--his last full year in Oakland
http://bkref.com/tiny/a6zBn

View attachment 20570
View attachment 20571
View attachment 20572

Raw stats favor Ellis, pace adjusted and advanced stats are both pretty close. Really not much separation either way.
Click to expand...

The comparison is close enough that it supports the idea that they dumped him because Steph/Monta wasn't a good long term pairing, and we are seeing similar issues with Dame/CJ.

If only we had dealt CJ for Paul George and drafted Mitchell..... :sigh:
 
Natebishop3 said:
The comparison is close enough that it supports the idea that they dumped him because Steph/Monta wasn't a good long term pairing, and we are seeing similar issues with Dame/CJ.

If only we had dealt CJ for Paul George and drafted Mitchell..... :sigh:
Click to expand...
If only.... But i really didn't know Mitchell was gonna be that good so i never would have thought of it. Then of course i wonder if Paul George would have wanted to come here without CJ being here also?
Maybe in the future i will be able to see these things before we have to make a decision. Then i can get it right every time. Championship will only be a year or two in the making and we will be perennial contenders.
 
kjironman1 said:
Like i said i hate defensive stats. But CJ indeed does actually defend his position as opposed to other shooting guards that do not even try to defend players of that caliber. Very well used argument on defense states the problems when you try to validate a "Plus Defender" when every game you play you are coming up against some of the greatest scoring players in the game at the very highest level.
I believe CJ has indeed improved on the defensive end. He does little things that create disruptions that give players he is guarding problems. However he is only 6'-3" so he has his limitations. He is smart and willing to make a smart move like the one he was penalized heavily for in game four. That should have been a common playoff foul. CJ understands the game very well.
Now if you would like i can make a statistical comparison to Monta Ellis but why? Defensive stats and situations are garbage at best. And in the end the offensive production pretty much makes this a mute point at best.
Monta Ellis's career defensive rating is 109
CJ's career defensive rating is 110
I would much rather have CJ on the Blazers.
Click to expand...

I would rather have CJ than Monta also. But, I would rather have a defensive SG taller than 6'4" more than either of them.
 
SportsAndWhine said:
Here's a question: since Toronto should be as worried about their team as we should be about ours, we might be in positions to make a deal with each other for a big talent swap. Could moving players between teams (talent allocation) possibly help both teams?
Click to expand...
No, but it could make both teams worse.
 
BonesJones said:
Then what is Boston right now? Their young players are playing great.
Click to expand...
Excuse after excuse... these people are just brainwashed by Neil Olshey... Blazers maybe one of youngest team by average but not by its star players... Dame and CJ will be 28 and 27... Boston lost its 2 best players and is winning with much younger and inexperienced stars than Blazers
 
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