Trade DEADline fallout: The Aftermath

[TBpup]

If you or your son is around 6'5", there is a legit chance to be signed by the Portland Trail Blazers. That seems to be all the rage in last years Draft, the FA signing of Payton, and the myriad of underachievers Joe Cronin just brought in.

To review the YMCA deals:

Svi Mykhailiuk OUT
Matisse Thybulle IN

Gary Payton OUT
Kevin Knox IN
(Wiseman and Bey were also moved in the multi-team deal. Would have rather had either of those)

Josh Hart OUT
Cam Reddish IN
(Mykhailiuk also included and traded for Thybulle)

Assets: The NYK's Lottery protected 1st round pick.
(Turns into 4 2nds if the pick doesn't convey this year)
5 future 2nd round picks obtained in the GPII deal

Waived:
Greg Brown III
Ryan Arcidianoco?

Players that were moved that would/could have actually helped the Blazers.

James Wiseman Mo Bamba
Thomas Bryant Mason Plumlee
Saddiq Bey Jaden McDaniels
Jarred Vanderbuilt Dwayne Dedman

It's nice getting some Draft capital, but we needed size and there was plenty available. Bamba was traded for Patrick Freaking Beverly and a 2nd round pick for goodness sake.

Wiseman may have fallen FAR short of living up to a 2nd round pick, but there are things he can do no other big on the Blazer's roster can. Thomas Bryant just tore the Blazers a new one just a week or so ago. Even Plumlee would help.

But no, we bring in Olshey-type reclamation projects where were once high Draft picks in Reddish and Knox. Thybulle can play D, but if you didn't like that Hart wouldn't/couldn't shoot, wait till we all get a load of Matisse. Brick City Rhapsody!!!

This roster did not get better.....period. They did not get the size this team so desperately needs. They did save some money, so if you love Bert and Jody, "all hail." They could pick up someone off the Waiver Wire here shortly. It sounds like Dedman has already been waived.

I've heard "flexibility" being thrown around which is another way to say we got Jack Squat but might be in line for a late Lottery pick.

Here are the current standings in the race to avoid the Play-In:
#6 Clippers.... -1.0
#7 Pelicans..... -1.0
#8 T-wolves... -1.5
#9 Warriors... -2.0
#10 Blazers.... -2.5
#11 Jazz......... -3.0
#12 Thunder.. -3.0
#13 Lakers..... -4.5

The Clippers, Warriors and Lakers all got someone to quite a bit better IMO. The Jazz continued selling off assets, the Thunder didn't do much of anything. The T-Wolves made a move, but not sure how much it helps them.

Portland got worse, Hart/GP2 out and scaps/underachievers in. No matter how much the Blazers or the media tries to spin this, they did NOTHING to help elevate the team for this year. So another year down the drain.

It might be time to start studying Draft pick. Who are the Blazers going to catch in the standings? And very likely, the Lakers catch them, so they might be looking at the #11 spot, just outside the Play-In. For this, we get the opportunity to pay even more for this group next season. Yay!!

What it's like to be a Blazer fan.....

 

[Strenuus]

The poll is skewed to hate on certain results.

Make it neutral. Just A-F. Invalidated.

 

[Whyachi]

Our team got worse, and we're told to stop whining.

Intimidation and insults is a hostile, agressive corperate marketing strategy, not humble fans who simply want to see their local basketball team succeed.

 

[Strenuus]

Our team got worse, and we're told to stop whining.

Intimidation and insults is a corperate marketing strategy, not humble fans who simply want to see their local basketball team succeed.

They are going to succeed, but because of unrealistic expectations based on unrealistic circumstances people are upset. Just look at the facts instead of making your own expectations then you'll be just fine

 

[crandc]

Payton is out? Damn. Hardly got a chance to know him.

 

[blazerkor]

I don't grade Joe on this deadline. He is obviously putting his eggs in the basket of draft night and I will judge him then. I honestly don't think he cares whether we win or lose for the rest of this season. It's the only reason why he wouldn't address the big man mess.

So he gets an incomplete from me but you don't get credit for incompletes so it's an F until he goes back and finishes the job.

 

[glazeduck]

As a fan, in a vacuum, today sucks. It's not fun to watch your team lose on the floor or at the deadline. As someone who's invested a ton of time, money and emotional energy into the franchise, it sucks to see such a pathetic ownership group.

All that said, today was about continuing to pay up for and try to right past sins, and honestly, I like the direction we took. Any chance of being truly competitive for a championship was out the window the second the Durant trade went down (spoiler alert: we couldn't have been competitive for him ANYWAY, but that's besides the point). Despite what all the armchair GMs here want to think, there wasn't another player available that would've really put us in the discussion, and anything less than that would've just fallen short and worked out like another Roco type move in the long run.

The worst thing to be in the NBA is mediocre and without assets -- and that's precisely what we were. We weren't going anywhere except maybe the back-end of the play-in tourney with GP2 and Hart, and one of them didn't seem bought in and the other was leaving for nothing in the offseason. So yes, our roster got worse today. But in the process, our situation, beyond a year that didn't matter either way, improved. NY will make the playoffs, which means we'll get a late teens pick in a great draft. We'll miss the playoffs, which means we'll get a top-10 pick in a great draft. We open up time for Little, Sharpe and our flyer bigs to develop. It sucks to punt on a year like Dame is having, but these conservative moves were the right decisions in the right climate, Dame or no Dame.

 

[glazeduck]

I don't grade Joe on this deadline. He is obviously putting his eggs in the basket of draft night and I will judge him then. I honestly don't think he cares whether we win or lose for the rest of this season. It's the only reason why he wouldn't address the big man mess.

So he gets an incomplete from me but you don't get credit for incompletes so it's an F until he goes back and finishes the job.

If we tank right, the 5th slot is entirely attainable...

 

[noknobs]

They are going to succeed

Link? Or is this just another unrealistic expectation?

 

[blazerkor]

If we tank right, the 5th slot is entirely attainable...

Dame is healthy, we aren't going to tank.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

If you or your son is around 6'5", there is a legit chance to be signed by the Portland Trail Blazers. That seems to be all the rage in last years Draft, the FA signing of Payton, and the myriad of underachievers Joe Cronin just brought in.

To review the YMCA deals:

Svi Mykhailiuk OUT
Matisse Thybulle IN

Gary Payton OUT
Kevin Knox IN
(Wiseman and Bey were also moved in the multi-team deal. Would have rather had either of those)

Josh Hart OUT
Cam Reddish IN
(Mykhailiuk also included and traded for Thybulle)

Assets: The NYK's Lottery protected 1st round pick.
(Turns into 4 2nds if the pick doesn't convey this year)
5 future 2nd round picks obtained in the GPII deal

Waived:
Greg Brown III
Ryan Arcidianoco?

Players that were moved that would/could have actually helped the Blazers.

James Wiseman Mo Bamba
Thomas Bryant Mason Plumlee
Saddiq Bey Jaden McDaniels
Jarred Vanderbuilt Dwayne Dedman

It's nice getting some Draft capital, but we needed size and there was plenty available. Bamba was traded for Patrick Freaking Beverly and a 2nd round pick for goodness sake.

Wiseman may have fallen FAR short of living up to a 2nd round pick, but there are things he can do no other big on the Blazer's roster can. Thomas Bryant just tore the Blazers a new one just a week or so ago. Even Plumlee would help.

But no, we bring in Olshey-type reclamation projects where were once high Draft picks in Reddish and Knox. Thybulle can play D, but if you didn't like that Hart wouldn't/couldn't shoot, wait till we all get a load of Matisse. Brick City Rhapsody!!!

This roster did not get better.....period. They did not get the size this team so desperately needs. They did save some money, so if you love Bert and Jody, "all hail." They could pick up someone off the Waiver Wire here shortly. It sounds like Dedman has already been waived.

I've heard "flexibility" being thrown around which is another way to say we got Jack Squat but might be in line for a late Lottery pick.

Here are the current standings in the race to avoid the Play-In:
#6 Clippers.... -1.0
#7 Pelicans..... -1.0
#8 T-wolves... -1.5
#9 Warriors... -2.0
#10 Blazers.... -2.5
#11 Jazz......... -3.0
#12 Thunder.. -3.0
#13 Lakers..... -4.5

The Clippers, Warriors and Lakers all got someone to quite a bit better IMO. The Jazz continued selling off assets, the Thunder didn't do much of anything. The T-Wolves made a move, but not sure how much it helps them.

Portland got worse, Hart/GP2 out and scaps/underachievers in. No matter how much the Blazers or the media tries to spin this, they did NOTHING to help elevate the team for this year. So another year down the drain.

It might be time to start studying Draft pick. Who are the Blazers going to catch in the standings? And very likely, the Lakers catch them, so they might be looking at the #11 spot, just outside the Play-In. For this, we get the opportunity to pay even more for this group next season. Yay!!

What it's like to be a Blazer fan.....

It's a C for me. I don't think they got better, but I don't know that they got worse. Payton/Hart/(GB3) for Thybulle/Reddish/Knox/FRP/5 SRP's in a vacuum is not really a bad return, and though we didn't bring in any bigs, we did, in fact, get taller and longer. Thybulle is 6'5" and loooonnnngggg, Reddish is 6'6.5" barefoot, and Knox is 6'8" barefoot.

I don't expect a big jump up the standings, but doom & gloom is a bit premature.

 

[Chris Craig]

I don't that we even have to tank to lose right now. Every team above us, accept maybe the Jazz got better. The Lakers below us got better. It's going to be hard to make the playoffs.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

I was kind of annoyed they didn't get one of the big men available, but they all had some flaws and I think acquiring one would have added just enough wins to get us out of the lottery. I am in tank mode now for this year. Of course, like a fool, I will still be rooting for us to win every night.

 

[glazeduck]

I was kind of annoyed they didn't get one of the big men available, but they all had some flaws and I think acquiring one would have added just enough wins to get us out of the lottery. I am in tank mode now for this year. Of course, like a fool, I will still be rooting for us to win every night.

100% this, but without being on those phone calls, all you have to go off of is their actions. It seems to be pretty clear that Bamba, Wiseman and others were VERY available, and the actions we took on them were to do something else. That suggests to me that, for better or worse, we weren't as interested in those guys as suggested. The inaction at the position also leads me to believe that they look at this season as part of a rebuild. As such, I fully expect us to feature Nurk heavily once he comes back healthy in hopes of recouping some of his value.

 

[Mr. Robot]

first things first: there was never a realistic scenario in which trail blazers can become a contender

secondly, wise thing would be to wait and see how new guys look on our team, dont make judgements before they even step on the court in our uniform

who knows, maybe not having josh hart (guard) play small forward position and having someone else play there will be a better fit and gp2 wasnt really what we expected (im glad hes gone), maybe thybulle becomes what we expected from gp2

 

[KingSpeed]

As someone who supports the tank nonetheless, I think our roster got better. Thy is better than Hart and Reddish is more needed on our team than GP2. We got a little taller and more athletic. Thy is being incredibly underrated here. People overrate Hart cuz he’s 6’5” and grabbed 8 rebounds a game. No worries. The team will rebound fine, esp with Nurk back.

 

[Chris Craig]

As someone who supports the tank nonetheless, I think our roster got better. Thy is better than Hart and Reddish is more needed on our team than GP2. We got a little taller and more athletic. Thy is being incredibly underrated here. People overrate Hart cuz he’s 6’5” and grabbed 8 rebounds a game. No worries. The team will rebound fine, esp with Nurk back.

Well, all that's left is seeing how this new roster fits together. Nurk still out another week. Hopefully, Winslow is back soon.

 

[SheedSoNasty]

Payton is out? Damn. Hardly got a chance to know him.

He’s headed back to your town, so you can still get to know him!

 

[Tince]

Can see people making a case for a B, C, or D.

Anyone giving out A's or F's is grading based off emotions and unrealistic expectations.

 

[HoopsFanAZ]

I graded it a “C.” And not a bad one. The reasoning above — with varying conclusions — I like them. The poll is spot on.
The outgoing players were likable and had strengths, but they aren’t needle movers — Hart didn’t shoot the open 3 and GP took too long to help on court. (Some mentions of that.) Their contract situations sealed the deal. Getting the draft capital was SOLID.

The players returned? Reclamation lottery picks — #9 and #10 in their drafts. Hart and GP out, Matisse in. At least Knox and Reddish are taller than 6’6”. Thybulle for defense and ignored, garbage man near the hoop. I like Thybulle.

 

[crandc]

I am wait and see. Not knocking my socks off but how many genuine blockbuster trades are there?

Bake the cake.

Just made chocolate fondant cake for tomorrow's dinner party.

 

[HoopsFanAZ]

The roster before and after the trades? About the same? The draft capital is for the summer. This year has been about PROCESS. That’s what Cronin has consistently said. Okay.

 

[TBpup]

They are going to succeed, but because of unrealistic expectations based on unrealistic circumstances people are upset. Just look at the facts instead of making your own expectations then you'll be just fine

Unrealistic expectations? What were those exactly?

Personally, I didn't have them anywhere near contender status. What I did expect is them not battling Utah who got rid of their 2 biggest stars or the baby Thunder. There is an argument to be made we have the greatest Blazer ever and what many believe is the best leader in the NBA. We have a young SG who is a very good scorer. We got "the best forward we've had since LaMarcus". We had an absolutely play his Hart out SF who is now gone.

I didn't not expect them to be in the nearly same place they were for much of last year when they were purposefully tanking. Fair enough?

 

[glazeduck]

Unrealistic expectations? What were those exactly?

Personally, I didn't have them anywhere near contender status. What I did expect is them not battling Utah who got rid of their 2 biggest stars or the baby Thunder. There is an argument to be made we have the greatest Blazer ever and what many believe is the best leader in the NBA. We have a young SG who is a very good scorer. We got "the best forward we've had since LaMarcus". We had an absolutely play his Hart out SF who is now gone.

I didn't not expect them to be in the nearly same place they were for much of last year when they were purposefully tanking. Fair enough?

Really speaks to how bad Nurk has been and how badly we needed him to not be bad...

 

[blazerkor]

Really speaks to how bad Nurk has been and how badly we needed him to not be bad...

It's not Nurk's fault. The most value Nurk brought was on the defensive end and as maybe the best paint clogging big on that end. Chauncey's defense doesn't have that position. The big has to show on the level for every P&R and the big has to switch and therefore defend the perimeter. Even in Chauncey's zone the big isn't back the big is up in the mid to high post. So every position Nurk finds himself in he has to recover from to protect the basket. Recovery requires mobility and Nurk is the least mobile player starting in the NBA. Chauncey obviously will not adjust and it makes Nurk have very little value for us and makes it look like he has very little value to anyone even though he would have far more value to coaches who play drop coverages.

On offense Nurk is Nurk but at least this season he added a wrinkle where he's taking and making threes at a rate and amount that make him a floor stretching big. If he finished the way he should and if he made the simple pass blah blah blah... that's nothing new.

 

[cheesehoff]

Really speaks to how bad Nurk has been and how badly we needed him to not be bad...

I think he's on the verge of going DenverNurk and pouting his way to the bench...the deep end of the bench.

 

[noknobs]

Didn't see this anywhere else so...

ESPN+ 2023 NBA trade deadline: Grades for every deal

Warriors send Wiseman to Detroit in four-team deal
Warriors get: Guard/forward Gary Payton II

Pistons get: Center James Wiseman

Hawks get: Forward Saddiq Bey

Trail Blazers get: Forward Kevin Knox
Five second-round picks

Golden State Warriors: B
Detroit Pistons: C-
Atlanta Hawks: A
Portland Trail Blazers: C+

With this deal, the Blazers essentially take a mulligan on signing Payton using their non-taxpayer midlevel exception last summer, getting a handful of second-round picks for their troubles.

Earlier Thursday, I wrote about newly added Matisse Thybulle as a replacement for starting small forward Josh Hart, dealt Wednesday night to the New York Knicks. With this trade it becomes clear Thybulle is really a replacement for Payton, who brings similar defensive playmaking with limited outside shooting.

Much as I appreciate Payton's game, that swap is probably good for Portland. Thybulle is more than four years younger and likely to be cheaper to re-sign this summer as a restricted free agent.

Again, however, the question is whether the Blazers should simply have cut out the Hawks and gotten Bey in return for Payton. Bey's modest 2023-24 salary would be ideal for a Portland team that may not be willing to pay the luxury tax, while he would have offered more size on the perimeter -- addressing a major Blazers weakness.

For now, Portland moves forward with Thybulle and Nassir Little at small forward and Justise Winslow likely to play a key bench role when he returns from a grade II ankle sprain that has sidelined him since late December -- just before Payton made his Blazers debut. Re-signing Winslow could become more of a priority because, like Payton, he offers Portland's second unit needed playmaking.


Thybulle to Blazers in 3-team deal
Trail Blazers get:
Forward Matisse Thybulle

76ers get:
Forward Jalen McDaniels
2024 second-round pick (via New York)
2029 second-round pick (via Portland)

Hornets get:
Guard Svi Mykhailiuk
2023 second-round pick (via most favorable of Atlanta, Brooklyn and Charlotte)
2027 second-round pick (via most favorable of New Orleans and Portland)

Philadelphia 76ers: A-
Charlotte Hornets: C+
Portland Trail Blazers: A

Consider this part two of the Blazers' deadline plan, which started Wednesday night by dealing Josh Hart to the New York Knicks for a protected first-round pick. That move created enough room under the tax line, as well as a trade exception, for Portland to take on Thybulle's contract.

As players, Hart and Thybulle are probably more similar than their reputations would suggest, particularly with Hart's reluctance to shoot 3s this season. (He has attempted fewer per 36 minutes and has made them at a worse clip than Thybulle so far.) Thybulle is almost precisely two years younger and is likely to have a weaker market as a restricted free agent this summer than Hart will unrestricted.

Add in the Blazers converting a couple of distant second-round picks into what could be a first-rounder in the late teens this season and this looks like a strong piece of business for the Portland front office.

There are still questions about how Thybulle fits offensively, but given that the Blazers entered the trade deadline 26th in defensive rating, adding Thybulle should help.


Blazers send Josh Hart to the Knicks

Knicks get: Guard/forward Josh Hart

Trail Blazers get:
Guards Ryan Arcidiacono
Svi Mykhailiuk
Guard/forward Cam Reddish
2023 first-round pick (via New York, top-14 protected, converts to four second-round picks)

New York Knicks: B-
Portland Trail Blazers: B+

Part of the Blazers' unspoken task this season was to play well enough to persuade ownership to pay the luxury tax to re-sign Hart, assuming he declined his player option, and fellow starting forward Jerami Grant.

With Grant averaging 21 PPG and making a career-high 41% of his 3-pointers, Portland has to prepare to give him a significant raise over this season's $21 million salary, meaning a new deal for Hart would likely take them into the tax.

As the Blazers hover around .500 and currently sit outside the play-in spots in the Western Conference, they couldn't justify paying the tax, making a Hart trade all but inevitable before the deadline. Likely getting a first-round pick is a good outcome, particularly because Portland will also get a free look at Reddish the rest of the season.

Remember, it was less than 13 months ago that the Knicks gave up a first-round pick to get Reddish, then in the third season of his four-year rookie contract. Thibodeau apparently wasn't part of that decision. Reddish has logged just 653 minutes since then, causing his trade value to crater.

Despite the occasional big effort, including a 26-point outburst in November against Oklahoma City, Reddish's game has always looked better on a scouting report than on the court. He could be a shooter but has hit just 32% of his 3s. He has the physical tools, including more size than Hart at 6-8, to be a strong defender. That skill set hasn't translated consistently either, though.

Those issues noted, Reddish is actually younger than a player drafted last June (Atlanta Hawks wing Tyrese Martin), so there's still time for him to put it all together. With minutes available and a need for more size on the perimeter, the Blazers will surely give him the opportunity he never found in New York.

Because the Knicks had to include two minimum-salary players (Ryan Arcidiacono and Svi Mykhailiuk) to match salary, Portland will have to either waive or trade a player under full NBA contract to complete this deal. There's no obvious candidate, so a deal might be the best solution.

 

[RonBrewer]

OP- love your posts. Always informative, even keeled and spittin' knowledge

 

[RonBrewer]

Wonder if we take a look at any dudes being bought out.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I voted C but could've easily done a B. As an isolated evaluation of only these moves it's fine for where the Blazers are at this year as non contenders. Let's say a new GM was hired yesterday and did these moves then fine maybe it's a B.

But the problem is the Blazers have been doing win now moves by bringing in Grant, extending Dame, signing Nurk, previously acquiring Hart and Payton. They haven't been rebuilding, so this change is giving them none of the players to contend now nor the youth to properly rebuild.

The Blazers need a 3 year plan and work to execute it. Not ship out vets one trade deadline, then tank the end of the year, then sign vets next summer, then ship out vets a few months later.

I'm hoping we see some patience and long term moves in the off-season.

For the rest of this season? Only thing I see of value is Blazers loosing helping their pick and growth from Sharpe, Ant, Jabari, Little in that order.

Reddish or Thybulle playing well probably is a non factor as the Blazers would have to pay it not overpay to retain them.