Trade Deadline: Feb 9 @ 3:00 p.m ET

[Fairly-Hard]

Portland could have paired Dame and PG13

I have read this statement on this site many times. There is some history between these two. It's deeper than just the wave. They don't get along and their past is something to consider.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

Seriously I am digging around sites like hoopshype, SirCharles, Fox sports and of course ESPN, Clutch points.
Anunoby has a bunch of talk but very little of it includes the Blazers other than an absolute outlier type possibility. Most are saying Knicks and Suns. The Grizzlies are in the running and then the Pelicans have been in the stories.

I mean if the Blazers were really in the conversation shouldn't there be a little more speculation? Pretty much everyone knew Grant was on his way here. You don't keep that kind of thing too closed very long.
The only place brimming with talk about this is S2.

 

[julius]

We have other guards. We can fill a hole at guard. We need length. We need defense.

what other guards do they have that are as good at shooting as Simons is? or can create for himself as well? the drop off between Simons and a replacement (currently on the team) is bigger than any improvement they could make by trading him for SF.

People are acting like he's done progressing.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Thing is, trading Ant only changes the hole in the starting 5 to a different position.

This true.... if we trade Ant for a hole. Which I agree, would be pretty stupid.

 

[Pinwheel1]

I have read this statement on this site many times. There is some history between these two. It's deeper than just the wave. They don't get along and their past is something to consider.

And his past with other players.......Paul George IMO would never have re-signed with Portland.

 

[wizenheimer]

I've seen a lot of shit returns, and not many other than OG seeming like good returns. Seems like a lot here have an extremely low view, and low returns, on Ant. I highly doubt the league views him that way.

maybe when I said most I should have said half

there are a few really negative Ant critics in the game threads...the usual suspects....I was thinking that the imaginary trade threads were better, but maybe I haven't seen all the proposals

I've been talked into Ant for OG but I sure wouldn't include more than 1 first

 

[Natebishop3]

And his past with other players.......Paul George IMO would never have re-signed with Portland.

Probably true. But why did he re-sign in OKC? I think it’s possible that he re-signed here but still demanded a trade when Kawhi came calling.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Probably true. But why did he re-sign in OKC? I think it’s possible that he re-signed here but still demanded a trade when Kawhi came calling.

My guess is he wanted the max, which he got from OKC. And he knew he could demand a trade anytime he wanted. Much like he did in Indiana. A no lose situation in case he got injured.

 

[blazerkor]

maybe when I said most I should have said half

there are a few really negative Ant critics in the game threads...the usual suspects....I was thinking that the imaginary trade threads were better, but maybe I haven't seen all the proposals

I've been talked into Ant for OG but I sure wouldn't include more than 1 first

I'm honestly cool with Ant for OG and a first or maybe even two but the problem with that is that we have to guarantee our pick to the Bulls to access any FRPs... I don't think Ant for OG is a guarantee that we make the playoffs and then if the Bulls win the lotto with our pick, what have we done?

So, if we have other deals set up that make the roster make sense by getting more athletic size on the bench and/or moving Nurk, then sure a first rounder and Ant for OG would be cool.

Again, I want to add a star player to Dame and OG is not on the level that I think we need as our number two guy and neither is Jerami. So if a deal of Ant and one or two FRPs for OG would preclude us from adding that second star player then I'm against it.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

It just sounds like the Utah trades over the Summer have ruined all trades. Everybody's now asking a ridiculous price and justifying it by saying "look at what Utah got!"

In general, something's got to give. Look at OKC, for example. They now have more picks in upcoming drafts than at least ten other teams put together. This is literally true. But they can't use that many players, so they're going to HAVE to unload some of them. But then, teams are going to realize that and demand a shit ton of picks from them. In effect, if OKC wants a player, they're going to have to pay more (in pick terms) simply because they have it. Conversely, a lot of teams have already given away the literal maximum (thanks to the Stepien rule) of picks they can give. Either they're going to be frozen out of the trade market (because now EVERYONE wants picks), or, if they're the only teams interested in a player, the other team is going to have to either not trade or go lower. It'll be interesting to see how it shakes out.

 

[blazerkor]

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/

• The Cavaliers, who have been in the market for help at the small forward position, are among the potential trade suitors to watch for Knicks forward Cam Reddish, according to Haynes. Dylan Windler‘s expiring $4MM contract would be a logical salary-matching piece in a Reddish trade if the Knicks are simply seeking a second-round pick, though that’s just my speculation.

If this guy's speculation is correct, I would be disappointed if we didn't send Justise and a second for a gamble on Reddish.

 

[Natebishop3]

what other guards do they have that are as good at shooting as Simons is? or can create for himself as well? the drop off between Simons and a replacement (currently on the team) is bigger than any improvement they could make by trading him for SF.

People are acting like he's done progressing.

Those things are nice, but we had those things with CJ for six years. They’re not as important as you’re making it out to be. We need someone at the two who isn’t a sieve on defense. We need someone who isn’t short for a two guard. It’s a hell of a lot easier to find chucker two guards than it is to find good small forwards.

 

[Pinwheel1]

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/

• The Cavaliers, who have been in the market for help at the small forward position, are among the potential trade suitors to watch for Knicks forward Cam Reddish, according to Haynes. Dylan Windler‘s expiring $4MM contract would be a logical salary-matching piece in a Reddish trade if the Knicks are simply seeking a second-round pick, though that’s just my speculation.

If this guy's speculation is correct, I would be disappointed if we didn't send Justise and a second for a gamble on Reddish.

What does he do well? Anything?

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Shocked at how many people want to trade a 22 year stud 3pt shooter. Has he struggled at times of course first full year starting and still learning PG. again this league is a shooters league and you need shooters around Dame

He’s closer to 24 than he is to 22. I don’t want to trade him, but just sayin’…

 

[illmatic99]

Those things are nice, but we had those things with CJ for six years. They’re not as important as you’re making it out to be. We need someone at the two who isn’t a sieve on defense. We need someone who isn’t short for a two guard. It’s a hell of a lot easier to find chucker two guards than it is to find good small forwards.

Simons is not CJ. This narrative needs to stop

 

[wizenheimer]

It just sounds like the Utah trades over the Summer have ruined all trades. Everybody's now asking a ridiculous price and justifying it by saying "look at what Utah got!"

In general, something's got to give. Look at OKC, for example. They now have more picks in upcoming drafts than at least ten other teams put together. This is literally true. But they can't use that many players, so they're going to HAVE to unload some of them. But then, teams are going to realize that and demand a shit ton of picks from them. In effect, if OKC wants a player, they're going to have to pay more (in pick terms) simply because they have it. Conversely, a lot of teams have already given away the literal maximum (thanks to the Stepien rule) of picks they can give. Either they're going to be frozen out of the trade market (because now EVERYONE wants picks), or, if they're the only teams interested in a player, the other team is going to have to either not trade or go lower. It'll be interesting to see how it shakes out.

just because it's kind of insane to look at the OKC future pick cabinet:

2023 first round draft pick from L.A. Clippers (swap, Oklahoma City outgoing)
Oklahoma City has the right to swap its 2023 1st round pick for the L.A. Clippers' 2023 1st round pick [L.A. Clippers-Oklahoma City, 7/10/2019]

2023 second round draft pick from Dallas or Miami (more favorable)
Oklahoma City will receive the more favorable of Dallas' 2023 2nd round pick and Miami's 2023 2nd round pick; Boston will receive the more favorable of (i) Houston's 2023 2nd round pick protected for selections 31-32 and (ii) the less favorable of the Dallas pick and the Miami pick and Indiana will receive the least favorable of the three; if the Houston pick falls within its protected range, then Houston's obligation to Boston will be extinguished and Boston will instead receive the less favorable of the Dallas pick and the Miami pick and Indiana will instead receive the Houston pick; Oklahoma City may convey the pick it receives to Denver or Charlotte (see Oklahoma City Outgoing) and Boston may convey the pick it receives to Indiana (see Boston Outgoing) (via Miami to Dallas; via Memphis' right to swap Dallas or Miami for Houston) [Dallas-Miami, 7/7/2017; Dallas-Memphis, 7/8/2019; Houston-Memphis, 2/6/2020; Boston-Memphis-Portland, 11/20/2020; Dallas-Detroit-Oklahoma City, 11/27/2020; Brooklyn-Cleveland-Houston-Indiana, 1/16/2021]

2023 second round draft pick from Washington
Washington's 2023 2nd round pick to Oklahoma City; Oklahoma City may convey this pick to Denver or Charlotte (see Oklahoma City Outgoing) (via New Orleans) [New Orleans-Washington, 2/7/2019; Denver-Milwaukee-New Orleans-Oklahoma City, 11/23/2020]

2024 first round draft pick from Houston
Houston's 2024 1st round pick to Oklahoma City protected for selections 1-4; if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Houston will instead convey its 2024 2nd round pick and 2025 2nd round pick to Oklahoma City [Houston-Oklahoma City, 7/16/2019]

2024 first round draft pick from L.A. Clippers
L.A. Clippers' 2024 1st round pick to Oklahoma City [L.A. Clippers-Oklahoma City, 7/10/2019]

2024 first round draft pick from Utah
Utah's 1st round pick to Oklahoma City protected for selections 1-10 in 2024, 1-10 in 2025 and 1-8 in 2026 (if Utah has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Oklahoma City by 2026, then Utah's obligation to Oklahoma City will be extinguished) [Oklahoma City-Utah, 7/30/2021; Oklahoma City-Utah, 1/4/2022]

2024 second round draft pick from Charlotte or Minnesota (less favorable)
Portland will receive the more favorable of Charlotte's 2024 2nd round pick and Minnesota's 2024 2nd round pick and Oklahoma City will receive the less favorable of the two (via Charlotte to New Orleans to Oklahoma City; via Minnesota to Oklahoma City to Denver to Portland) [Charlotte-New Orleans, 11/19/2020; Minnesota-New York-Oklahoma City, 11/20/2020; Denver-Milwaukee-New Orleans-Oklahoma City, 11/23/2020; Denver-Oklahoma City, 6/23/2022; Denver-Portland, 7/6/2022]

2025 first round draft pick from Houston or L.A. Clippers (swap, Oklahoma City outgoing to Houston, L.A. Clippers or Brooklyn)
Oklahoma City has the right to swap its 2025 1st round pick for Houston's 2025 1st round pick protected for selections 1-10 or the L.A. Clippers' 2025 1st round pick; Houston then has the right to swap its pick or the Oklahoma City pick for Brooklyn's 2025 1st round pick; if the Houston pick falls within its protected range, then Houston's obligation to Oklahoma City will be extinguished and Houston will instead receive the more favorable of its pick and the Brooklyn pick and Brooklyn will receive the less favorable of the two [L.A. Clippers-Oklahoma City, 7/10/2019; Houston-Oklahoma City, 7/16/2019; Brooklyn-Cleveland-Houston-Indiana, 1/16/2021]

2025 first round draft pick from Miami
Miami's 1st round pick to Oklahoma City protected for selections 1-14 in 2025 and unprotected in 2026 (via L.A. Clippers) [L.A. Clippers-Miami, 7/6/2019; L.A. Clippers-Oklahoma City, 7/10/2019; Miami-Oklahoma City, 2/9/2022]

2025 first round draft pick from Philadelphia
Philadelphia's 1st round pick to Oklahoma City protected for selections 1-6 in 2025, 1-4 in 2026 and 1-4 in 2027; if Philadelphia has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Oklahoma City by 2027, then Philadelphia will instead convey its 2027 2nd round pick to Oklahoma City [Philadelphia-Oklahoma City, 12/8/2020]

2025 second round draft pick from Atlanta
Atlanta's 2025 2nd round pick to Oklahoma City protected for selections 31-40 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Atlanta's obligation to Oklahoma City will be extinguished) [Atlanta-Oklahoma City, 11/24/2020; Atlanta-Oklahoma City, 9/27/2022 (partial removal of protection)]

2025 second round draft pick from Boston or Memphis (more favorable)
Oklahoma City will receive the more favorable of Boston's 2025 2nd round pick and Memphis' 2025 2nd round pick and Orlando will receive the less favorable of the two (via Memphis to Boston to Orlando) [Boston-Memphis-Portland, 11/20/2020; Boston-Orlando, 3/25/2021; Boston-Oklahoma City, 6/18/2021]

2025 second round draft pick from Philadelphia
Philadelphia's 2025 2nd round pick to Oklahoma City [New York-Oklahoma City-Philadelphia, 3/25/2021]

2026 first round draft pick from Houston
Houston's 2026 1st round pick to Oklahoma City protected for selections 1-4; if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Houston will instead convey its 2026 2nd round pick to Oklahoma City [Houston-Oklahoma City, 7/16/2019]

2026 first round draft pick from L.A. Clippers
L.A. Clippers' 2026 1st round pick to Oklahoma City [L.A. Clippers-Oklahoma City, 7/10/2019]

2026 second round draft pick from Dallas or Philadelphia (most favorable of these and Oklahoma City, Oklahoma City outgoing to Miami or Houston)
Oklahoma City will receive the most favorable of its 2026 2nd round pick, Dallas' 2026 2nd round pick and Philadelphia's 2026 2nd round pick and Houston will receive the second most favorable and Miami will receive the least favorable of the three (via Oklahoma City) [Dallas-Detroit-Oklahoma City, 11/27/2020; New York-Oklahoma City-Philadelphia, 3/25/2021; Miami-Oklahoma City, 2/9/2022; Houston-Oklahoma City, 9/30/2022]

2027 first round draft pick from Denver
At least two years after Denver conveys a 1st round pick to Orlando, Denver's 1st round pick to Oklahoma City protected for selections 1-5 in 2027, 1-5 in 2028 and 1-5 in 2029; if Denver has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Oklahoma City by 2029, then Denver will instead convey its 2029 2nd round pick to Oklahoma City [Denver-Oklahoma City, 6/23/2022]

2027 second round draft picks from Houston, Indiana and/or Miami (three most favorable of these and Oklahoma City, Oklahoma City outgoing to San Antonio)
Oklahoma City will receive the three most favorable of its 2027 2nd round pick, Houston's 2027 2nd round pick, Indiana's 2027 2nd round pick and Miami's 2027 2nd round pick and San Antonio will receive the least favorable of the four (via Houston to Detroit to Oklahoma City; via Utah to San Antonio) [Detroit-Houston, 11/24/2020; Detroit-Oklahoma City, 3/13/2021; Indiana-Oklahoma City, 11/25/2020; Miami-Oklahoma City, 3/17/2021; Oklahoma City-Utah, 7/30/2021; Portland-San Antonio-Utah, 2/9/2022]

2028 second round draft pick from Utah
Utah's 2028 2nd round pick to Oklahoma City [Oklahoma City-Utah, 7/30/2021; Oklahoma City-Utah, 1/4/2022]

2029 second round draft pick from Atlanta
Atlanta's 2029 2nd round pick to Oklahoma City [Atlanta-Oklahoma City, 9/27/2022]

 

[julius]

Those things are nice, but we had those things with CJ for six years. They’re not as important as you’re making it out to be. We need someone at the two who isn’t a sieve on defense. We need someone who isn’t short for a two guard. It’s a hell of a lot easier to find chucker two guards than it is to find good small forwards.

Is he really short for a 2 guard?

The guards in rotation on Boston, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Miami, NY (Barrett is a SF/SG combo), Atlanta, Washington, Indiana, Chicago, Toronto, Denver, Memphis, Minnesota, G-State, Phoenix, Utah, New Orleans, Lakers, Spurs and Houston are 6'5" and under.

And the teams that have players over 6'5" tend to be problems for everyone (Doncic, George, Ball) or are backups who really don't deserve to have the starters adjusted based on their height.

Caveat, the heights taken here are from basketballreference.com, which lists Simons as 6'3", and Sharpe as 6'6", so it shows that a lot of the heights are misleading. 2 to 3 inches aren't worth getting upset. It's not like the 80's where shooting guards were 6'7".

Simons meh defense isn't a symptom of his height.

 

[blazerkor]

What does he do well? Anything?

He's a phenomenal run/jump athlete first and foremost. He's 6'8" with a 7'1" wingspan. At his size he can handle the ball well. His career FT% is 84.4 but he's been closer to 90 the last two seasons. He had a stretch to start last season before he got traded where he was hitting 37.9% of his threes and his shot has always looked nice. So that leads me to believe he can really shoot it if put in the right position. His career average of one steal a game while only getting 24 minutes a game means he's a legit threat to turn the other team over. He's gotten really inconsistent playing time and roles throughout his career. When I look at all of those things together and when I've seen him play it all leads me to believe that he has an incredibly high ceiling.

Also he's not 6'6" or under so he does that better than most of the guys in our rotation.

 

[Natebishop3]

Simons is not CJ. This narrative needs to stop

He doesn’t have to be a 1:1 copy of CJ to replicate many of the same issues.

Good outside shooter.
Good at creating his own shot.
Decent at distributing when he wants to.
Not a good defense.
Undersized for a shooting guard.

 

[blazerkor]

Simons is not CJ. This narrative needs to stop

You're right about them not being the exact same but Dame/Ant seem to be having the exact same problems as Dame/CJ. So for most of us when paired with Dame, he is CJ and until Ant is either traded or him and Dame stop having the same weaknesses when playing together as Dame and CJ did, the narrative actually needs to continue.

 

[HansenYang]

Simons is not CJ. This narrative needs to stop

Correct.

CJ is better, but they both are terrible on D.

 

[wizenheimer]

I have read this statement on this site many times. There is some history between these two. It's deeper than just the wave. They don't get along and their past is something to consider.

all that stuff happened in the 2019 playoffs. The got exacerbated when George, AND, Beverly were Clippers. The trade situation was around the draft in 2017. I think PG13 is more of a follower than a leader, and that pairing him with Dame starting in the 2017/18 season might have created a much different dynamic. And if it didn't, then it could have have been Portland trading for SGA and a bunch of draft picks

I'm not saying the Pacers would have accepted the deal (but I don't believe the ass-covering crap about KP not trading with Portand), but at the time, CJ was coming off of his best season and Oladipo wasn't

 

[wizenheimer]

Correct.

CJ is better, but they both are terrible on D.

I think it's debatable that CJ is better:



looks like a push to me

But yeah, they both suck big-time at defense. And, they both suck, bigger-time, at getting to the FT line

 

[KingSpeed]

Shocked at how many people want to trade a 22 year stud 3pt shooter. Has he struggled at times of course first full year starting and still learning PG. again this league is a shooters league and you need shooters around Dame

I don’t think anyone wants to trade Ant because he sucks. We want to trade him BECAUSE he’s good and in a package, might get us a taller star to better complement Dame. By the way, Simons is almost 24.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

all that stuff happened in the 2019 playoffs. The got exacerbated when George, AND, Beverly were Clippers. The trade situation was around the draft in 2017. I think PG13 is more of a follower than a leader, and that pairing him with Dame starting in the 2017/18 season might have created a much different dynamic. And if it didn't, then it could have have been Portland trading for SGA and a bunch of draft picks

I'm not saying the Pacers would have accepted the deal (but I don't believe the ass-covering crap about KP not trading with Portand), but at the time, CJ was coming off of his best season and Oladipo wasn't

There was something about PG messing with somebody else’s girlfriend and then his girlfriend got going against Dame’s girlfriend. There was some Ho baiting and it wasn’t nice nice.

 

[KingSpeed]

Yea, I'm shocked really, the kid is far away from his potential, still learning the ropes as a full time starter, and guys just want to get rid of him for some of the trades mentioned here is a head scratcher. But yet again this place seems to be getting worse, the bad apples are always trying to give their negative opinion and people love to engage with the negative views so to speak, and it's runs away the good posters imo.

I wouldn’t say Ant is far from his potential. This is his 5th year.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

He doesn’t have to be a 1:1 copy of CJ to replicate many of the same issues.

Good outside shooter.
Good at creating his own shot.
Decent at distributing when he wants to.
Not a good defense.
Undersized for a shooting guard.

My take? And honestly I know very little other than what I watch.
Ant seems to be a better overall defender than CJ but CJ has a crafty way about him and he does make some plays.

Edit- I also think they are way better than this place makes them out to be. They defend the greatest players on the planet. They both do the exact same things to other players.

 

[wizenheimer]

Is he really short for a 2 guard?

The guards in rotation on Boston, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Miami, NY (Barrett is a SF/SG combo), Atlanta, Washington, Indiana, Chicago, Toronto, Denver, Memphis, Minnesota, G-State, Phoenix, Utah, New Orleans, Lakers, Spurs and Houston are 6'5" and under.

lol...c'mon man. There's too much missing context there

Boston: Jalen Brown spends about half his time at SG; and they have Smart and White PG/SG and both are bigger than Simons and play much bigger.
Bucks: Jrue and Allen are both quite a bit bigger and much more physical than Ant. And the rest of the rotation has great length
76ers: they have Harden at PG and that changes the dynamic for the rest of the guard rotation

Cleveland? Mitchell is shorter than Ant, but he's bigger and plays even bigger. And of course the Cavs start a front line, and has a front line rotation that has great length

I don't need to go thru every team. The issue with Ant is he's paired with Dame. It's true he isn't CJ, but both he and CJ play small. They are poor rebounders, bad defenders, and shitty at getting to the FT line. And Ant has the misfortune of playing on a team that has terrible length at wing; meaning his lack of length and inability to match up with other wings is a much bigger handicap for Portland that it might be for other teams

it's not that Ant is undersized at SG, it's that he's significantly undersized as a wing to the point he can't play wing; he doesn't have any kind of a physical game; and he plays 36 minutes on a team desperate for length

 

[KingSpeed]

what other guards do they have that are as good at shooting as Simons is? or can create for himself as well? the drop off between Simons and a replacement (currently on the team) is bigger than any improvement they could make by trading him for SF.

People are acting like he's done progressing.

We would still have Hart, Sharpe, GP2, and Keon conceivably. Guard is not a problem.

Dame/one of the above guards/OG/Grant/Nurk is MUCH better than what we have now.

 

[KingSpeed]

Simons is not CJ. This narrative needs to stop

Indeed. CJ was a major player on a team that went to the WCF. CJ had a 50 points in 29 minutes game for us. Simons hasn’t shown to be at that level. CJ got us to 3 seed twice. Simons has us at sub 500.