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Tince said:
I still contend that very few teams will look at CJ + his contract as an asset. I suspect the majority of teams would see that as a liability and therefore we'd have to lose a trade on the talent end or take on a horrible contract in return.
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I think most teams that can afford him will look at him as a net positive but not too much of one but teams like the Bucks and Sixers who need perimeter scoring and that's about all they need would see CJ as a huge net positive meaning they would actually send back some value for him not just contracts to match his. I think every team in the league besides maybe Golden State and Houston would take CJ for expiring contracts if they had the chance. I don't think any team would amnesty a guy that can score like CJ and portrays the attitude that CJ does, even if he is being overpaid.

Do you think a lot of GMs would amnesty CJ and his contract if given the chance? If you don't then you view him as an asset even with that contract. Now I think our best trade partner is the Sixers because they have so many young defensive wings that they could give up Richardson and the also overpaid Harris and also likely their first rounder for CJ and Ariza. I think that makes them a better team and it makes us a better team. I think there are other trades out there like that but I don't know about them. GMs around the league have to know that Dame steps on CJ's toes offensively, that CJ is playing out of position defensively with an average defender next to him in the back court and they've also seen what CJ's numbers are like when Dame is out. The only problem I see on getting return for CJ isn't that he is seen as a net negative around the league but that Neil sees him as some sort of big time star that is almost untouchable and none of Dame, CJ, Neil and Terry seem to realize that Dame and CJ are a horrible on court match. I am not saying that CJ would be an all star in the East, I just think he could be the primary perimeter scoring option on a championship team built around better interior scorers and if that team surrounded him with defenders... that has a lot of value.
 
blazerkor said:
I think most teams that can afford him will look at him as a net positive but not too much of one but teams like the Bucks and Sixers who need perimeter scoring and that's about all they need would see CJ as a huge net positive meaning they would actually send back some value for him not just contracts to match his. I think every team in the league besides maybe Golden State and Houston would take CJ for expiring contracts if they had the chance. I don't think any team would amnesty a guy that can score like CJ and portrays the attitude that CJ does, even if he is being overpaid.

Do you think a lot of GMs would amnesty CJ and his contract if given the chance? If you don't then you view him as an asset even with that contract. Now I think our best trade partner is the Sixers because they have so many young defensive wings that they could give up Richardson and the also overpaid Harris and also likely their first rounder for CJ and Ariza. I think that makes them a better team and it makes us a better team. I think there are other trades out there like that but I don't know about them. GMs around the league have to know that Dame steps on CJ's toes offensively, that CJ is playing out of position defensively with an average defender next to him in the back court and they've also seen what CJ's numbers are like when Dame is out. The only problem I see on getting return for CJ isn't that he is seen as a net negative around the league but that Neil sees him as some sort of big time star that is almost untouchable and none of Dame, CJ, Neil and Terry seem to realize that Dame and CJ are a horrible on court match. I am not saying that CJ would be an all star in the East, I just think he could be the primary perimeter scoring option on a championship team built around better interior scorers and if that team surrounded him with defenders... that has a lot of value.
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To answer your question in bold: Yes.

I think the majority of GM's would think they could get at minimum an all-star player with $30m/year. Add to the fact that CJ has 3 years at $100m, that means 3 years of paying an all-nba salary to a non all-star.
 
e_blazer said:
So, this idea is via OregonLive. Ariza, Collins and Simons for Victor Oladipo. Then trade CJ for a starting SF (PG?) or PF and roll with Hood at SF.

Thoughts?

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7323419
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I don't know if those guys add up to the value of Oladipo plus Zach who is probably the most valuable piece in that trade is redundant for Indy, since they have Sabonis and Turner. They need a back up big but I doubt they would take three back ups for Oladipo, I imagine they could get a lot more for him. Mayb if we added some draft picks they'd go for it. As far as trading CJ, if Indy did do the trade I would see if we could get Harris and Thybulle for CJ from the Sixers (I think technically that would have to be two trades Harris for CJ and Thybulle for the Skal trade exception). Then you'd have Dame, Oladipo, Thybulle, Harris, Nurk, Gary, hopefully a healthy Hood, maybe Melo, and we'd need to use the MLE or at least part of it on a guy like Nerlens Noel who can be a backup in the post.
 
Tince said:
To answer your question in bold: Yes.

I think the majority of GM's would think they could get at minimum an all-star player with $30m/year. Add to the fact that CJ has 3 years at $100m, that means 3 years of paying an all-nba salary to a non all-star.
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Fair enough, I just disagree but that's fine... do you think that the Sixers would trade Harris and Richardson for CJ and Ariza? I only ask because Harris is even more so what you described CJ as being and Philly has players on their roster to fill Richardson's spot and would get Ariza's value.
 
blazerkor said:
Fair enough, I just disagree but that's fine... do you think that the Sixers would trade Harris and Richardson for CJ and Ariza? I only ask because Harris is even more so what you described CJ as being and Philly has players on their roster to fill Richardson's spot and would get Ariza's value.
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You don't think GM's think $30m/year is all-star level money? You might be right, I'm curious on your opinion.

I would assume the 76ers would jump at a Harris for CJ swap (it would save them money and probably be a talent upgrade). Not sure what they think of Richardson, but that's probably something they would do. Interesting idea!
 
Tince said:
You don't think GM's think $30m/year is all-star level money? You might be right, I'm curious on your opinion.

I would assume the 76ers would jump at a Harris for CJ swap (it would save them money and probably be a talent upgrade). Not sure what they think of Richardson, but that's probably something they would do. Interesting idea!
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I do think that they think that GMs view CJ as overpaid but not to the point that they would give up his talent for nothing. I don't think the Sixers would amnesty Harris or that we would either. I think very few if any teams would amnesty either of those guys but I might be wrong. To answer your question explicitly and explicitly, you're fucking right that GM's think $30m/year is all-star level money but again even in amnesty years people have kept non-all-stars on all-star contracts because their talent has been just too good to give up for nothing... even if you have to overpay them. If you're great at scoring in this league which CJ is and can do it in all the ways that CJ can, there isn't a GM out there that wouldn't take you on even at $30/year, it's just a matter of if they would give back a lot of value and Neil feels he needs a lot of value in return.
 
if you're talking about getting approximately equivalent value & talent for a CJ trade, then I think the best Portland could hope for is something like CJ for Tobias Harris; or maybe CJ + 16 for Khris Middleton, but I think the Bucks would turn that down.

Middleton is better than CJ and he's a 2-way player. Harris and CJ are about equal as players, but maybe both players would fit better on their new teams. Unfortunately, Harris has a worse contract than CJ so Portland would still be in the same boat with even less flexibility than they have now

IMO, Portland is stuck in a cul-de-sac. They may have to back out. It may be that the best CJ deal is one than takes two steps back so they have a better way forward. A decent wing, maybe a pick, and some significant cap-relief might be the best CJ trade out there
 
blazerkor said:
I do think that they think that GMs view CJ as overpaid but not to the point that they would give up his talent for nothing. I don't think the Sixers would amnesty Harris or that we would either. I think very few if any teams would amnesty either of those guys but I might be wrong. To answer your question explicitly and explicitly, you're fucking right that GM's think $30m/year is all-star level money but again even in amnesty years people have kept non-all-stars on all-star contracts because their talent has been just too good to give up for nothing... even if you have to overpay them. If you're great at scoring in this league which CJ is and can do it in all the ways that CJ can, there isn't a GM out there that wouldn't take you on even at $30/year, it's just a matter of if they would give back a lot of value and Neil feels he needs a lot of value in return.
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You're certainly right about this. Teams like Portland, who don't have a lot of cap flexibilty and have a difficult time attracting free agents might not amnesty CJ. I certainly don't think Portland would. There is a big difference between amnesty an overpaid player on your roster and actively giving up assests to obtain an overpaid player. In trade scenarios, we need to find a trade partner who thinks CJ and his contract are of positive value in order for us to get anything that might put us in contention mix. I think the odds of us finding that trade partner willing to give us an upgrade in talent while taking on CJ's contract is highly unlikely.
 
wizenheimer said:
if you're talking about getting approximately equivalent value & talent for a CJ trade, then I think the best Portland could hope for is something like CJ for Tobias Harris; or maybe CJ + 16 for Khris Middleton, but I think the Bucks would turn that down.

Middleton is better than CJ and he's a 2-way player. Harris and CJ are about equal as players, but maybe both players would fit better on their new teams. Unfortunately, Harris has a worse contract than CJ so Portland would still be in the same boat with even less flexibility than they have now

IMO, Portland is stuck in a cul-de-sac. They may have to back out. It may be that the best CJ deal is one than takes two steps back so they have a better way forward. A decent wing, maybe a pick, and some significant cap-relief might be the best CJ trade out there
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Middleton is not better than CJ. C'mon man.
 
tykendo said:
Middleton is not better than CJ. C'mon man.
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Wait... seriously? I think you're being funny. CJ is a much better scorer than Middleton but CJ is also one of the best perimeter bucket getters in the game but that's all CJ is good for. Khris Middleton can also get buckets. He's actually more efficient than CJ, shooting a better percentage overall and from three but I still think given CJ's arsenal of different ways to score he's the better scorer and likely even the better passer than Middleton. The thing is that Middleton plays this thing called defense, it's on the other end of the court, where CJ is pretty much useless. So yeah, I think Middleton is better than CJ but I think we could get Middleton for CJ and picks... that's right not one first rounder but two. The good thing is I think we could trade CJ, our 2021 first and 2023 first for Middleton and that would get the job done.
 
tykendo said:
Middleton is not better than CJ. C'mon man.
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upload_2020-9-30_9-20-27.png
upload_2020-9-30_9-21-7.png
CJ averaged 1.15 points/shot; Middleton averaged 1.37

statistically, it's a slam-dunk in favor of Middleton, and that matches the eye-test, at least my eye-test. And those stats don't account for defense where Middleton has another advantage. Middleton is more versatile, and is also a true wing since he can play SG or SF, on both ends of the floor, and dribble-drive while operating outside-in. That has high value in the NBA.

Middleton is a two-time all-star while CJ has never sniffed that distinction. And yeah, I know, I know...."CJ would be an all-star in the East" is a favorite talking point around here, even though that's easily debunked.

if you like CJ more, fine. But there's no real basis for that bias. Neither player is elite, but by just about every measurable standard, Middleton is better. I even think he'd be a better fit on the Blazers than CJ as long as Dame is around
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Not endorsing, just reporting:

View attachment 33800
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Yeah, I saw that proposal. I don't think that it moves the needle enough to be worth the effort. Oladipo is light years better than CJ on the defensive end of the court, but his offense is spotty at best. He's been injured a lot lately, so there's the worry about durability. We're giving up height in Zach and Ariza. Harris is good, but a bit undersized at PF. I still think that Zach and Simons have untapped potential. I don't know, this trade feels a bit like treading water.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Horribly undersized, injury prone, and overpaid lineup.
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Well our 3 is undersized, but that can be covered by Hood if needed. The other positions are fine.
Regarding overpaid I can see one overpaid which is Harris. All other contracts are ok.

Injury proneness yes, Oladipo and Nurk are big questionmarks and we don't have the best history with that.
 
wizenheimer said:
I hope somebody figures out how to tap that potential before AARP issues Dame a membership card
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I'm not wedded to the idea of either of them remaining a Blazer, but I want to see a clear upgrade in talent if we do trade them. Zach needs to show more offensive potential than he has so far in order for me to consider him more than a role player. This should have been his breakout year. He's got one more year on his contract to show something worth getting an extension. Simons needs to stop looking like a damned deer in the headlights when he plays.
 
from the paywall article, it is suggested that the teams may be real sellers of talent as their ownership has taken significant damage to their wealth sources during covid, and if the cap drops to $109 million, may consider divesting salary obligations to shore up near term losses elsewhere.

https://theathletic.com/2076228/202...which-nba-franchises-are-hurting-financially/
Pinched vs. prospering: Which NBA franchises are hurting financially?

"Pacers: Owner Herb Simon boasts billions, but he’s in a small market and his Simon Property Group is heavily leveraged into malls. Yes, malls. This was a troublesome business to be in before the pandemic struck. Today’s Motley Fool update on the Simon Property Group begins with the statement, “There’s really no way to put a positive spin on 2020 for Simon Property Group (NYSE:SPG) or its shareholders.” Yikes."

"Rockets: This one is obvious. Rockets owner Tilman Fertitta is invested heavily in restaurants, hotels, amusement parks, casinos and, really, any property you can name that might have been devastated by COVID-19. We’ve seen the public signs of financial issues. Fertitta lobbied President Donald Trump in person for a restaurant chain bailout and he got a private loan at very high interest rate. Basically, he looks like he’s desperately trying to hold on, just as this Rockets era could be unraveling. Bad times in Houston could be ahead"

"Heat: Two words: Carnival Cruises. Still, I’ve heard some league insiders say that Heat owner and Carnival Corporation chairman Micky Arison has a bit less exposure to the losses than you might think. I also happen to believe that, when the pandemic ends, older people will return to cruise ships en masse. Their love of cruises is about as constant as Heat culture."

"Kings: This is the little brother of the Warriors’ situation. The Kings have a new-ish arena, which means they have new costs. Vivek Ranadivé is not among the wealthier owners and Sacramento is a smaller market. The Kings have a lot to sort out financially. Hopefully, they can get better stewardship on that front than they’ve gotten in the recent past."

"Knicks: To quote Knicks great Patrick Ewing, yes the Knicks make a lot of money, but they spend a lot of money, too. The Madison Square Garden Company is heavily invested in entertainment ventures that have been hard hit, such as basketball and hockey. Due to that, its stock price cratered in the spring and has yet to really recover. The Knicks have traditionally squandered their financial advantage over other teams. Perhaps even that edge is eroding."

"Raptors: It’s a very similar situation to the Knicks, save for the on-court product. Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment presides over multiple sports franchises and the high costs associated with them. This pandemic represents a haircut on many fronts."

"Warriors: This one is local. The Warriors spent lavishly to build an arena on the last piece of good land in San Francisco. That was all great when Chase Center could reliably bet on season-ticket revenue and lucrative concerts, but not so much during the big freeze. Meanwhile, the franchise has been stuck on a TV contract that was signed shortly after Joe Lacob and Peter Guber bought the team, locking them out of proceeds that could have been netted from their miraculous rise. Now the Warriors claim a very expensive roster, having committed roughly a combined $130 million to their four best-paid players next season (Stephen Curry, Klay Thompson, Andrew Wiggins and Draymond Green)."

teams with ownership doing well and prospering during the financial crisis include
Cavaliers:
Nets
Clippers
 
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wizenheimer said:
View attachment 33797
View attachment 33798
CJ averaged 1.15 points/shot; Middleton averaged 1.37

statistically, it's a slam-dunk in favor of Middleton, and that matches the eye-test, at least my eye-test. And those stats don't account for defense where Middleton has another advantage. Middleton is more versatile, and is also a true wing since he can play SG or SF, on both ends of the floor, and dribble-drive while operating outside-in. That has high value in the NBA.

Middleton is a two-time all-star while CJ has never sniffed that distinction. And yeah, I know, I know...."CJ would be an all-star in the East" is a favorite talking point around here, even though that's easily debunked.

if you like CJ more, fine. But there's no real basis for that bias. Neither player is elite, but by just about every measurable standard, Middleton is better. I even think he'd be a better fit on the Blazers than CJ as long as Dame is around
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If C.J. was the #2 on Milwaukee, he wouldve been an all-star. Your point was solid until you bright up all-star appearances. Also, you're refusing to acknowledge how CJ can bail out the offense when it bogs down and stagnates, something he's better at than Middleton. We saw how Milwaulee struggled without a #2 that could get create his own shot consistently on all 3 levels.

And this is coming from someone who'd love to trade CJ for Middleton.
 
lawai'a said:
from the paywall article, it is suggested that the teams may be real sellers of talent as their ownership has taken significant damage to their wealth sources during covid, and if the cap drops to $109 million, may consider divesting salary obligations to shore up near term losses elsewhere.

https://theathletic.com/2076228/202...which-nba-franchises-are-hurting-financially/
Pinched vs. prospering: Which NBA franchises are hurting financially?

"Pacers: Owner Herb Simon boasts billions, but he’s in a small market and his Simon Property Group is heavily leveraged into malls. Yes, malls. This was a troublesome business to be in before the pandemic struck. Today’s Motley Fool update on the Simon Property Group begins with the statement, “There’s really no way to put a positive spin on 2020 for Simon Property Group (NYSE:SPG) or its shareholders.” Yikes."

"Rockets: This one is obvious. Rockets owner Tilman Fertitta is invested heavily in restaurants, hotels, amusement parks, casinos and, really, any property you can name that might have been devastated by COVID-19. We’ve seen the public signs of financial issues. Fertitta lobbied President Donald Trump in person for a restaurant chain bailout and he got a private loan at very high interest rate. Basically, he looks like he’s desperately trying to hold on, just as this Rockets era could be unraveling. Bad times in Houston could be ahead"

"Heat: Two words: Carnival Cruises. Still, I’ve heard some league insiders say that Heat owner and Carnival Corporation chairman Micky Arison has a bit less exposure to the losses than you might think. I also happen to believe that, when the pandemic ends, older people will return to cruise ships en masse. Their love of cruises is about as constant as Heat culture."

"Kings: This is the little brother of the Warriors’ situation. The Kings have a new-ish arena, which means they have new costs. Vivek Ranadivé is not among the wealthier owners and Sacramento is a smaller market. The Kings have a lot to sort out financially. Hopefully, they can get better stewardship on that front than they’ve gotten in the recent past."

"Knicks: To quote Knicks great Patrick Ewing, yes the Knicks make a lot of money, but they spend a lot of money, too. The Madison Square Garden Company is heavily invested in entertainment ventures that have been hard hit, such as basketball and hockey. Due to that, its stock price cratered in the spring and has yet to really recover. The Knicks have traditionally squandered their financial advantage over other teams. Perhaps even that edge is eroding."

"Raptors: It’s a very similar situation to the Knicks, save for the on-court product. Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment presides over multiple sports franchises and the high costs associated with them. This pandemic represents a haircut on many fronts."

"Warriors: This one is local. The Warriors spent lavishly to build an arena on the last piece of good land in San Francisco. That was all great when Chase Center could reliably bet on season-ticket revenue and lucrative concerts, but not so much during the big freeze. Meanwhile, the franchise has been stuck on a TV contract that was signed shortly after Joe Lacob and Peter Guber bought the team, locking them out of proceeds that could have been netted from their miraculous rise. Now the Warriors claim a very expensive roster, having committed roughly a combined $130 million to their four best-paid players next season (Stephen Curry, Klay Thompson, Andrew Wiggins and Draymond Green)."

teams with ownership doing well and prospering during the financial crisis include
Cavaliers:
Nets
Clippers
Click to expand...
If Sacramento really wants to save money: Bjelica fits perfectly into our TPE!
 
damianlillard said:
Make it happen. If we do that without trading our first I would be so happy. Quick question can we use our TPE for multiple players?
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You can use a $7M TPE on two $3.5M players, or a $3M player and two $2M players.
 
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