Trail Blazers huddle during national anthem as display of unity (2 Viewers)

[BlazerWookee]

I am having flashbacks to the 60's and early 70's. The same argument was made then. Hell Hoover even planted agitators in the protests so they lost credibility. Not saying they are doing that now, but this issue is going to get worse before it gets better.
It is a complex issue. Arguments can be made on both sides, but change has to come from both sides. Keeping the conversation out of sports would be nice, but ignoring the problem and hoping it is going to go away has not worked.

I think most of the players are being pressured into the limelight because of Ali, Brown and Kareem. I doubt they really want the attention. But I would not say the movement has zero credibility. They are forcing more dialogue, and in this situation that can't be bad. What is the alternative? Obviously walking or driving around with a weapon is not smart, but shooting a suspect 15 times because he has a knife or is running away is not the answer. Sure the police need the ability to protect themselves or we won't have a police force, but still.....there needs to be a better alternative than what is happening. From both sides.

Something has to be done, and I'll be damned if I know what. But until "protesters" is no longer an acceptable thing to call people who co-opt legitimately peaceful protests with legitimate grievances burn, damage, injure, and steal, then the real protesters, the ones out there doing the right things for the right reasons, will continue to be disappointed by the level of credibility their movement is given.

 

[MarAzul]

the constitution says that all white americans count as 1 body during a sensus count and all others are 3/5ths of a body. Meaning Blacks and every other minority.
The people who wrote the national anthem and the constitution were racist in their own right. How much pride should we take in it?

These are all statements that could be offensive.

I find most of the posts that support not showing respect for our country disgusting. The above quote represent the ignorance that fosters this lack of respect for country when we all should, in togetherness, take a moment to honor the work and sacrifice it took to create and sustain this Nation.

When the Flag is shown and the anthem is played, I salute the Flag. An extremely high percentage of people that have served this nation, do the same. I am just one of them.

If you have a grievance to protest, pick another time and place, you have no need to piss on everyone that proud to be and American and even please to have served.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Something has to be done, and I'll be damned if I know what. But until "protesters" is no longer an acceptable thing to call people who co-opt legitimately peaceful protests with legitimate grievances burn, damage, injure, and steal, then the real protesters, the ones out there doing the right things for the right reasons, will continue to be disappointed by the level of credibility their movement is given.

Right here my man... a few posts back!


You want to know how and what will actually make a change?

Treating each other like we would like to be treated on an individual level. Give respect to each other.
Help thy neighbor raise thy barn.

Its the only way we will see a change and this change will take a long time. No movement or law will help. Its up to each person individually to treat each other equally and respectfully.

Until this happens there will continue to be problems....

 

[BlazerWookee]

Right here my man... a few posts back!


You want to know how and what will actually make a change?

Treating each other like we would like to be treated on an individual level. Give respect to each other.
Help thy neighbor raise thy barn.

Its the only way we will see a change and this change will take a long time. No movement or law will help. Its up to each person individually to treat each other equally and respectfully.

Until this happens there will continue to be problems....

I'm in, but how to get everyone else to follow your excellent advice? That is the question.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I find most of the posts that support not showing respect for our country disgusting. The above quote represent the ignorance that fosters this lack of respect for country when we all should, in togetherness, take a moment to honor the work and sacrifice it took to create and sustain this Nation.

When the Flag is shown and the anthem is played, I salute the Flag. An extremely high percentage of people that have served this nation, do the same. I am just one of them.

If you have a grievance to protest, pick another time and place, you have no need to piss on everyone that proud to be and American and even please to have served.

This is the ignorance right there. The ignoring (or unknowing) That not everyone is proud to be an american. We were just born in this country (NOT ME per say).


If you want to pull ny quote out and use it as a reference for ignorance, you better address the points I made, or you are simply validating my posts...

*Palm to forehead*....

That's like saying I was born in Germany in 1919... so I should be proud of my country and the superiority complex it had during that era...

Come on man...

How can you possibly use my quote as a basis for ignorance when your post is so vague it reaks of ignorance.

You do know our history and how this country came to be and how most of the rich became rich right?

 

[Orion Bailey]

I'm in, but how to get everyone else to follow your excellent advice? That is the question.

You cant. Its free will.

All we can do is control our own surroundings and how we interact with each other and hope it starts the domino effect. This effect can take years and decades to complete though, so it takes patience and persistence and not giving up in the face of adversity.

Stay the course.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Its been years since I was studying, or discussing this, so my wording was not exactly correct. The point being is it still holds truths. When we wrote the constitution, not all were treated equal even though it says we were created equal.

Yes, whole free persons and 3/5ths for everyone else.
Who owned slaves? The Chinese? Blacks? The Native Americans?
No. White euro transfers did.
So yes,my wording was not correct, but the implication of the wording is still there.

Not really. Because free black men were counted as 1 whole person. Free Asian men were counted as 1 whole person. Only slaves were counted as 3/5, and if a white person were a slave, he would have been counted at 3/5 as well--not because their ontology was considered inherently unequal, just their status, which was conceivably changeable.

 

[illmatic99]

I find most of the posts that support not showing respect for our country disgusting. The above quote represent the ignorance that fosters this lack of respect for country when we all should, in togetherness, take a moment to honor the work and sacrifice it took to create and sustain this Nation.

When the Flag is shown and the anthem is played, I salute the Flag. An extremely high percentage of people that have served this nation, do the same. I am just one of them.

If you have a grievance to protest, pick another time and place, you have no need to piss on everyone that proud to be and American and even please to have served.

On a similar respect, can you explain to me why you need to feel patriotic before a Blazer game? As you say, why not pick another time and place?

 

[Orion Bailey]

I find most of the posts that support not showing respect for our country disgusting. The above quote represent the ignorance that fosters this lack of respect for country when we all should, in togetherness, take a moment to honor the work and sacrifice it took to create and sustain this Nation.

When the Flag is shown and the anthem is played, I salute the Flag. An extremely high percentage of people that have served this nation, do the same. I am just one of them.

If you have a grievance to protest, pick another time and place, you have no need to piss on everyone that proud to be and American and even please to have served.

Sorry man, but I have to go further on this. You think others are ignorant? Honestly. What work and sacrifice did our founders make?

Are you referring to how we brought in Chinese slave workers to start our railroad system?

Or maybe it was the work that some did when they stuck a stick in the ground and said I own this land and then toss blacks in chains to pick their cotton or work their farms?

Or maybe it was how we acted as though we were fair when we traded muskets for land to the Native Americans... and then the sacrifice it took to then take the land?

Lots of work and sacrifice involved in that. Your right. I am ignorant.....



Sometimes, i'm embarrassed to be a white euro American, when others think we are owed this land or we don't have to atone for our actions from 100 years ago...

We may not be the cause of the problems that started generations ago, but to act as though it was all on the up and up and we shouldn't have to do anything to correct things is way more ignorant than my post you referenced

 

[Orion Bailey]

Not really. Because free black men were counted as 1 whole person. Free Asian men were counted as 1 whole person. Only slaves were counted as 3/5, and if a white person were a slave, he would have been counted at 3/5 as well--not because their ontology was considered inherently unequal, just their status, which was conceivably changeable.

And there were a large percentage of free blacks and chinese roaming the states then right?

And how many white slaves were around then?

I get your point, but its symantics man.

The fact is, we enslaved humans and then said they arent to be counted as whole people. and those who were enslaved were largely Black and Chinese.

Again... there were alot of white slaves working for free back then right?

 

[blue32]

That not everyone is proud to be an american. We were just born in this country (NOT ME per say).

Then those people can use the freedom that this country affords them and they can get the fuck out if they don't like it..

 

[Wheels]

On a similar respect, can you explain to me why you need to feel patriotic before a Blazer game? As you say, why not pick another time and place?

This! This! This! This! This!

Or at least "why not this, AND the game?" if some reeeeally feel the need to show patriotism on so many occasions.

 

[MarAzul]

That not everyone is proud to be an american.

>> It is too bad, perhaps that is the problem. Most of the people that have served this Nation are proud to be an American.

We were just born in this country

>> Most learn this is a blessing. Three of my grandparents and father immigrated to this country and never let it be unknown that I was fortunate to be born here.
My Father was proud to serve in the US Navy, his last day was on the job.

How can you possibly use my quote as a basis for ignorance

Because you did not quote the current Constitution (as modified by amendments) and then asking, "How much pride should we take in it?".
Well you know, the things you bitch about have been corrected? A long time ago now! And even so, the original word written were to guide a new Nation, better than the one that existed, not to create Nirvana. The framers did not create slavery, it had existed in the world for many thousands of years prior to the creation of this country. The history here needs to be understood and you simply call them racist! Very inaccurate, but more than I want to type to correct.

You do know our history and how this country came to be

You bet, read most everything written on the subject.

how most of the rich became rich right?

No I do not. But I have heard the tales of how some became rich.

 

[Wheels]

Then those people can use the freedom that this country affords them and they can get the fuck out if they don't like it..

eyeroll.gif

 

[MarAzul]

Sometimes, i'm embarrassed to be a white euro American

Sorry man, but I can't stand people that give off this vib, let alone say it.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

Then those people can use the freedom that this country affords them and they can get the fuck out if they don't like it..

Or we can just stay and not be patriotic.

 

[MarAzul]

On a similar respect, can you explain to me why you need to feel patriotic before a Blazer game? As you say, why not pick another time and place?

If you want to see if you can get the Blazers to not do the anthem before ball games, I would have no objection. The NBA might though.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Then those people can use the freedom that this country affords them and they can get the fuck out if they don't like it..

But see, you are now going the opposite of what this country is SUPPOSED to represent... the ability to accept multiple ideas or opinions, but if someone disagrees wqith how you feel about the country, they should leave?:

Hypocritical, dont you think?

>> It is too bad, perhaps that is the problem. Most of the people that have served this Nation are proud to be an American.



>> Most learn this is a blessing. Three of my grandparents and father immigrated to this country and never let it be unknown that I was fortunate to be born here.
My Father was proud to serve in the US Navy, his last day was on the job.



Because you did not quote the current Constitution (as modified by amendments) and then asking, "How much pride should we take in it?".
Well you know, the things you bitch about have been corrected? A long time ago now! And even so, the original word written were to guide a new Nation, better than the one that existed, not to create Nirvana. The framers did not create slavery, it had existed in the world for many thousands of years prior to the creation of this country. The history here needs to be understood and you simply call them racist! Very inaccurate, but more than I want to type to correct.



You bet, read most everything written on the subject.



No I do not. But I have heard the tails of how some became rich.

Sorry man, but I can't stand people that give off this vib, let alone say it.

It is indeed too bad and is indeed part of the problem.

Listen. I dont disagree with you and I stand every game and remove my hat. What i am saying is that not all Americans view the country as others do. To say this was all corrected years ago is also ignorant. as if a law just made the problems go away.

Didn't strop my grandfather from calling the neighborhood kid his N** that comes and mows his lawn.

Nothing has stopped the bigotry and no laws will. Again, its up to us as an individual and if you think the government created some laws and all of a sudden, poof... things are equal.. well then that is also ignorant.

How do you pay back or make up for enslaving generations of a race? You cant.

Other than giving it time and changing ourselves on an individual level, but people aren't doing that and my grandfather is proof of that.. so... younger generations see it isn't changing even if the laws say it has changed, so they protest.


Most learn being born in America is a blessing, when your not born into poverty. Yes. It is a blessing to be born here and be a white male.

 

[blue32]

thumbsup.gif

FTFY

Or we can just stay and not be patriotic.

Hypocritical, dont you think?

Not at all. But I won't get into it. It's hip now to be un-patriotic.

 

[dviss1]

Not standing at attention in a protest of the flag that itself is supposed to stand for equality. Isn't protesting the heroes who fought and died for this country.
Nor is it disrespectful to them. Actually I find it extremely respectful.
(As do my great-uncle who was in Nam, and my grandfather who was in WW2. They fought for freedom and the right to exist. As well as equality for all. If I could talk to my great grandfather I'm sure he'd utter the same words as my uncle and grandfather)
Disrespectful would be burning, spitting on their uniform etc ~.
But no the protesters who don't stand at attention during the anthem are extremely peaceful.
I don't like Kap, but I support his right to protest as long as it's peaceful.
I don't like football, but I support those players who protest peacefully and those who aren't protesting equally.

The flag doesn't represent what it's supposed to.
Liberty and Justice for all.

Great post. Not only servicemen and servicewomen died for that flag. Millions of Natives and millions of slaves were killed too. And, since those times that flag has NEVER represented us all. Ask the black soldier who had to stand on the train while his German POW got a seat. He went and fought Nazi Germany for that flag and before he even got home knew that the flag he was fighting under didn't respect him or his people.

 

[illmatic99]

So it started as a symbol of wartime patriotism (and to wake up a bored fan base): http://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/6957582/the-history-national-anthem-sports-espn-magazine

And it has transformed into a contrived, forced patriotism before watching multi-millionaire (mostly entitled) prima donnas play a game.

Just not the time or place I feel.

 

[blue32]

So it started as a symbol of wartime patriotism (and to wake up a bored fan base): http://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/6957582/the-history-national-anthem-sports-espn-magazine

And it has transformed into a contrived, forced patriotism before watching multi-millionaire (mostly entitled) prima donnas play a game.

Just not the time or place I feel.

I can totally agree with removing it from games. I never liked it there in the first place. But please people, do respect it when its going.

 

[dviss1]

Not ONE of you in here complains about the fact that there are WELLS FARGO LOGOS on the flag during the anthem but have something to say about this.

Please spare your selective outrage.

 

[blue32]

Not ONE of you in here complains about the fact that there are WELLS FARGO LOGOS on the flag during the anthem but have something to say about this.

Please spare your selective outrage.

Please spare us your selective posts.... christ man.

 

[dviss1]

Please spare us your selective posts.... christ man.

Don't deflect. I've been complaining about it for years. I even sent a complaint to the Blazers that went unheard. There are 4 logos, each at a corner of the flag, as the anthem plays. THIS is MUCH more offensive than any players kneeling or huddling.

 

[oldfisherman]

The constitution starts off with these three words, in large print.

WE THE PEOPLE

The problem is, when our constitution was written, “we the people” were only white males. No Blacks, no Native Americans, not even women could vote. None of them had a official say in our government.

A lot has changed since then, and more changes are coming. We are not perfect yet, but getting better.

To make everyone truly equal in our country is a long painful fluid process.

 

[MarAzul]

Don't deflect. I've been complaining about it for years. I even sent a complaint to the Blazers that went unheard. There are 4 logos, each at a corner of the flag, as the anthem plays. THIS is MUCH more offensive than any players kneeling or huddling.

Please, by all means, get the logos off the flag. This is simply desecration. But the team huddling should stop too. I sure won't pay to see the team disrespect the nation and those that serve.

 

[blue32]

Don't deflect. I've been complaining about it for years. I even sent a complaint to the Blazers that went unheard. There are 4 logos, each at a corner of the flag, as the anthem plays. THIS is MUCH more offensive than any players kneeling or huddling.

I don't disagree that they should be removed, but using this is apples to oranges when debating about honoring the anthem/country.

 

[H.C.]

I'm curious. What are they doing about the 40 or so murders of black people that happen every month in Chicago alone? Murders that are committed by other black people, by the way. Where is the outrage about that? Where are the national protests? I guess if you're a black person killed by another black person you're just shit out of luck. No protest for you!

This post right here just goes to show that some white people are disconnected and fed media driven drivel without actual knowledge.
Considering there have been protests in the past week or so for a white man dying by unnecessary police force.
Your post just shows me you watch CNN too much.

There are a couple others in this thread who fall under this category as well.
Too much CNN.

 

[blue32]

This post right here just goes to show that some white people are disconnected and fed media driven drivel without actual knowledge.
Considering there have been protests in the past week or so for a white man dying by unnecessary police force.
Your post just shows me you watch CNN too much.

There are a couple others in this thread who fall under this category as well.
Too much CNN.

I think he was referring to black on black crime which is taking a huge back-seat compared to the police shootings, even though black on black crime is far and above more prevalent than police shootings.