Politics Ukraine / Russia (2 Viewers)

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Good interview with Mark Hertling explaining what Ukraine is trying to do now, why Britains's Storm Shadow missiles are so important and how Ukraine puts together a sea drone costing maybe $2000 and attacks $100 million ships with it.
 
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Woman arrested in plot to assassinate President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, Ukraine says

https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...olodymyr-zelenskyy-ukraine/story?id=102065597



KYIV and LONDON -- A Ukrainian woman has been detained by Ukraine’s Security Service in connection with an apparent plot to attack President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, the service said on Monday.

The woman, who is from Mykolaiv but was not publicly named, was being questioned, officials said. She had been part of a plot aimed at assassinating Zelenskyy during his visit last week to Mykolaiv, a southeastern city near the front, officials said.

ukraine-woman-arrested-zelenskyy-plot_1691405017666_hpMain_16x9_992.jpg

An undated photo released by Ukraine's Security Services shows a woman, center, being detained by law enforcement after she was accused of plotting to assassinate President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.
Ukraine's Security Services
Law enforcement officials said she had been caught "red-handed" as she handed info to the Russians.

She allegedly was passing information on to Russian forces about Zelenskyy's location, including a full itinerary of the president's visit to the region. The Russians would have then ordered an airstrike to assassinate him, Ukrainian officials alleged.

Investigators learned of the woman's alleged plans ahead of the visit and Zelenskyy took “additional security measures” while in the area, security officials said.

“The Ukrainian Security Service continued to document the criminal actions of the enemy accomplice in order to obtain new data about her Russian ‘curators’ and the tasks received,” officials said in a Monday statement written in Ukrainian.

zelnskyy-Mykol_hpMain_20230807-071931_16x9_992.jpg

Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy speaks staff as he visits a military hospital in the town of Ochakov, in Mykolaiv region, Ukraine July 27, 2023.
Ukrainian Presidential Press Service via Reuters
As investigators gathered additional info, they found that the woman had been locating Ukraine’s defense systems and ammunition warehouses throughout the Ochakov region, they said. She traveled to the region and photographed sites, officials said.

The woman had allegedly been planning to share that info with Russia for “a new massive air strike” in the region.

Zelenksyy said he was briefed on "the struggle against traitors in Ukraine" during his daily conference call with Ukrainian leaders on Monday.
 
This is s small city in the eastern region that supposedly voted overwhelmingly for pro russian candidate. I wonder how they would vote now. This is clearly not a military target.
 
A 3 month old tiger cub Russia stole from Mariupol zoo has died in a Russian circus. The tiger was not bred as a circus animal.

I hope mama tiger has a chance to avenge her baby.
 
Hoopguru said:
As the world stands by and allows it!
Dont want to hear about oh they got nukes!
Its time for Nato to take Putin out!
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I am all for taking Putin out. BUT!

That alone will not end Russia's agression. It would take a complete destruction and rebuilding of Russia's system, similar to Japan after WW2.

If their one party system is allowed to continue, anyone replacing Putin will be pushing the same agendas. All opposition to Putins agendas have been removed and silenced.
 
Don't know if giving Ukraine long range rockets would be a good move...however, from what I've read the weaponry the US has already given Ukraine is only about 5% of our total defense budget.

And IMO, that's not nearly enough, even though the US has already contributed far more than anyone else.
 
yankeesince59 said:
Don't know if giving Ukraine long range rockets would be a good move...
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They already have long range missiles from Britain and France, they just need more. russia is able to fire 30-40 missiles per day at Ukrainian cities. Ukraine would be happy if they could fire 10 a day at russian military targets.
 
Good interview with ret general Ben Hodges. Main point: He can't understand why Biden won't commit to Ukraine actually winning the war and won't give them the long range rockets that they can win with.

 
UKRAINEFAN said:
They already have long range missiles from Britain and France, they just need more. russia is able to fire 30-40 missiles per day at Ukrainian cities. Ukraine would be happy if they could fire 10 a day at russian military targets.
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I understand, at least I think I do. But if they already have long range missiles why aren't they using them? We're in a very critical time..and other countries need to do more. And if the US really wants to be a leader in what's right and what's wrong, they need to act like it and just fucking stop with the half measures, because that approach is clearly not working.
 
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oldfisherman said:
I am all for taking Putin out. BUT!

That alone will not end Russia's agression. It would take a complete destruction and rebuilding of Russia's system, similar to Japan after WW2.

If their one party system is allowed to continue, anyone replacing Putin will be pushing the same agendas. All opposition to Putins agendas have been removed and silenced.
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Thanks,
When I made that rant I had just come in from ripping lips and had a couple snake bites.
I realize we need to use solid judgment but man, to watch this go on and on is very sad.
People that dont really have a fight are being killed and disrespected.
 
yankeesince59 said:
I understand, at least I think I do. But if they already have long range missiles why aren't they using them?
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They are using them, mostly against targets in Crimea. They hit two bridges there recently that connect Crimea to the mainland. They also hit a railroad and a refinery. One reason I don't think they have very many is a video I saw of one of the bridge strikes. There was just one big hole in the pavement of the bridge, but cars were still able to cross the bridge.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
They are using them, mostly against targets in Crimea. They hit two bridges there recently that connect Crimea to the mainland. They also hit a railroad and a refinery. One reason I don't think they have very many is a video I saw of one of the bridge strikes. There was just one big hole in the pavement of the bridge, but cars were still able to cross the bridge.
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Understood...for me, if the US raises the ante by giving Ukraine more rockets, Ukraine would have to promise the US that they would not be used inside the borders of Russia, and instead only be used to recapture Ukrainian land that Russia has seized.

Also, these sea drones can really help Ukraines cause;

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ukraine-sea-drones-attacks-russia-war-rcna98721


Ukraine turns to sea drones in bid to take the war to Russia
A spate of recent attacks on high-profile targets signal an apparent shift in Kyiv’s effort to wear its invader down.
 
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yankeesince59 said:
Understood...for me, if the US raises the ante by giving Ukraine more rockets, Ukraine would have to promise the US that they would not be used inside the borders of Russia, and instead only be used to recapture Ukrainian land that Russia has seized.

Also, these sea drones can really help Ukraines cause;

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ukraine-sea-drones-attacks-russia-war-rcna98721


Ukraine turns to sea drones in bid to take the war to Russia
A spate of recent attacks on high-profile targets signal an apparent shift in Kyiv’s effort to wear its invader down.
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Ukraine has designed and are manufacturing these sea drones themselves. Also different enterprises in Ukraine are manufacturing air drones of different types and sizes, thousands and thousands a month. They are also manufacturing 152 and 155 mm shells for artillery.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
Ukraine has designed and are manufacturing these sea drones themselves. Also different enterprises in Ukraine are manufacturing air drones of different types and sizes, thousands and thousands a month. They are also manufacturing 152 and 155 mm shells for artillery.
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I worry about the future of the US Navy. These drone attacks are a lot cheaper/easier than other methods of ship-killing.

barfo
 
barfo said:
I worry about the future of the US Navy. These drone attacks are a lot cheaper/easier than other methods of ship-killing.

barfo
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China has and is investing heavily in that.

Here are some naval drones from China:
  • Flying submarine: A stealth craft designed to burst from the water and fly with fold-out wings
  • Zhu Hai Yun: The world's first unmanned drone carrier with autonomous navigation and remote-control functions
  • Caihong 5 (CH-5): China's answer to the MQ-9 Reaper drone, with a 21 meter wingspan and the ability to carry 1,000 kg of equipment
  • Spy drone: A drone that can map territory at night and in foggy weather
  • Unmanned underwater vehicles (UUVs): Including HSU001, which was unveiled in 2019 at a military parade
  • Wing Loong-3: China's latest military drone model, with intercontinental range
  • WZ-7: Considered one of China's most advanced drones
  • Guizhou WZ-7 Soaring Dragon: A high-altitude, long-endurance unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) with a joined-wing design
 
Some salty dog pirate mention cheap and easy drones? How about one made out of cardboard?

It will not sink a ship, but it could take out a tank, among other things.

 
"The list of American security assistance to Ukraine since the beginning of Russia’s “unprovoked and brutal invasion” is impressive. What is more impressive is that $21.9 billion in U.S. military aid has been dominated by largely second-string gear, comprised of unpopular or lower-tech systems that were, in many cases, on the way to the scrapyard.
As Congress gears up to constrain the Biden Administration’s relative largesse, it is worth emphasizing that the aid, to date, is neither excessive nor threatening to U.S. national security.

In fact, U.S. military support to Ukraine has cost less than what Congress is paying to procure two Gerald R. Ford (CVN 78) class nuclear-powered aircraft carriers. In total, taxpayers will put some $26 billion into the USS Gerald R. Ford (CVN 78) and the USS John F. Kennedy (CVN 79). In comparison to these troubled flattops, the $21.9 billion for Ukraine appears to be a far more effective return on investment."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/craigh...-surplus-into-fearsome-force/?sh=41644861370a
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
"The list of American security assistance to Ukraine since the beginning of Russia’s “unprovoked and brutal invasion” is impressive. What is more impressive is that $21.9 billion in U.S. military aid has been dominated by largely second-string gear, comprised of unpopular or lower-tech systems that were, in many cases, on the way to the scrapyard.
As Congress gears up to constrain the Biden Administration’s relative largesse, it is worth emphasizing that the aid, to date, is neither excessive nor threatening to U.S. national security.

In fact, U.S. military support to Ukraine has cost less than what Congress is paying to procure two Gerald R. Ford (CVN 78) class nuclear-powered aircraft carriers. In total, taxpayers will put some $26 billion into the USS Gerald R. Ford (CVN 78) and the USS John F. Kennedy (CVN 79). In comparison to these troubled flattops, the $21.9 billion for Ukraine appears to be a far more effective return on investment."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/craigh...-surplus-into-fearsome-force/?sh=41644861370a
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Posting this to refute any claims that somehow USA is hurting their own military capability by helping Ukraine.
"While the numbers and lists of gear are impressive, America hasn’t given very much that might impact America’s security in any substantial way. We’ve handed over a lot of former Russian or otherwise obsolete equipment, including 45 Russian-built T-72B main battle tanks and 20 Mi-17 helicopters. Much of the gear sent to Ukraine was headed for either the scrapheap or to other allies.

To a general audience, armored personnel carriers sound impressive. The fact that America gave Ukraine some 200 M113 Armored Personnel Carriers sounds like a big deal. But military experts know that America stopped building these tracked utility vehicles about 25 years ago and is busy stripping them from the U.S. force.

Other surplus gear has gone to Ukraine. During America’s counterinsurgency conflicts, the Army procured lots of M1117 Armored Security Vehicles—a wheeled armored car—between 1999 and 2014. More appropriate for military constabulary duties than full-scale conflict, the U.S. has already been drawing down the vehicle inventory, so the 250 sent to Ukraine won’t be missed. To give an idea of where Ukraine sits in terms of donations, the U.S. gave 200 of these vehicles to Columbia in 2020. Over 700 were produced for the Afghanistan Army and 400 went to the Iraqi armed forces. At least, in Ukraine, these vehicles are directly supporting U.S. goals.

Some fancy militarized-sounding gifts have centered around mobility. A grant of almost 300-400 “Tactical Vehicles” may impress a general audience, but they’re all just military trucks built to carry between 2.5 or 5 tons.

American taxpayers gave Ukraine 477 Mine Resistant Ambush Protected Vehicles (MRAPs). Built for a grinding counterinsurgency, the U.S. military has been so eager to shed the heavy, hard-to-maintain vehicles it has handed them out to police departments all over the United States."
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
"The list of American security assistance to Ukraine since the beginning of Russia’s “unprovoked and brutal invasion” is impressive. What is more impressive is that $21.9 billion in U.S. military aid has been dominated by largely second-string gear, comprised of unpopular or lower-tech systems that were, in many cases, on the way to the scrapyard.
As Congress gears up to constrain the Biden Administration’s relative largesse, it is worth emphasizing that the aid, to date, is neither excessive nor threatening to U.S. national security.

In fact, U.S. military support to Ukraine has cost less than what Congress is paying to procure two Gerald R. Ford (CVN 78) class nuclear-powered aircraft carriers. In total, taxpayers will put some $26 billion into the USS Gerald R. Ford (CVN 78) and the USS John F. Kennedy (CVN 79). In comparison to these troubled flattops, the $21.9 billion for Ukraine appears to be a far more effective return on investment."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/craigh...-surplus-into-fearsome-force/?sh=41644861370a
Click to expand...

UKRAINEFAN said:
Posting this to refute any claims that somehow USA is hurting their own military capability by helping Ukraine.
"While the numbers and lists of gear are impressive, America hasn’t given very much that might impact America’s security in any substantial way. We’ve handed over a lot of former Russian or otherwise obsolete equipment, including 45 Russian-built T-72B main battle tanks and 20 Mi-17 helicopters. Much of the gear sent to Ukraine was headed for either the scrapheap or to other allies.

To a general audience, armored personnel carriers sound impressive. The fact that America gave Ukraine some 200 M113 Armored Personnel Carriers sounds like a big deal. But military experts know that America stopped building these tracked utility vehicles about 25 years ago and is busy stripping them from the U.S. force.

Other surplus gear has gone to Ukraine. During America’s counterinsurgency conflicts, the Army procured lots of M1117 Armored Security Vehicles—a wheeled armored car—between 1999 and 2014. More appropriate for military constabulary duties than full-scale conflict, the U.S. has already been drawing down the vehicle inventory, so the 250 sent to Ukraine won’t be missed. To give an idea of where Ukraine sits in terms of donations, the U.S. gave 200 of these vehicles to Columbia in 2020. Over 700 were produced for the Afghanistan Army and 400 went to the Iraqi armed forces. At least, in Ukraine, these vehicles are directly supporting U.S. goals.

Some fancy militarized-sounding gifts have centered around mobility. A grant of almost 300-400 “Tactical Vehicles” may impress a general audience, but they’re all just military trucks built to carry between 2.5 or 5 tons.

American taxpayers gave Ukraine 477 Mine Resistant Ambush Protected Vehicles (MRAPs). Built for a grinding counterinsurgency, the U.S. military has been so eager to shed the heavy, hard-to-maintain vehicles it has handed them out to police departments all over the United States."
Click to expand...


IMO, the US is not doing enough...from what I understand, though they have contributed the most, but the US is still only using 5% of our military budget on Ukraine.
 
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I always feel better after listening to General Ben.
General Ben Hodges responds to pessimistic view (coming from USA) of Ukraine's offensive.
He feels they are doing well considering the lack of air support and lack of long range missiles that they need desperately. He thinks their tactics of going slow with small groups of infantry are the correct ones.

As he says, Ukraine should be given enough long range rockets so that they could attack multiple targets in Crimea every day, not twice a month.
Reminds that war is a test of wills. Ukraine has the will, does the West? Also a test of logistics, which he thinks Ukraine is doing well at.
He finds it amazing that after 18 months of war, russia has not been able to hit a single train or convoy bringing arms from Poland into Ukraine.
 
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