Politics Ukraine / Russia (2 Viewers)

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The first meeting of EU ministers ever outside the EU took place in Kyiv today also.
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Phatguysrule said:
This sounds like a mistake that the responsible party has apologized for and resigned because of.
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Zelensky is the responsible party. And no, he didn’t apologize. The Commons Speaker got thrown under the bus and stepped down as of it somehow excuses the fact that Zelensky is running around with Nazis.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
Right. Because people might discover where the real Nazis are right now, not 80 years ago:
Russian Neo-Nazis Participate in ‘Denazifying’ Ukraine – Der Spiegel
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022...ate-in-denazifying-ukraine-der-spiegel-a77762
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Pretty weak anecdotal example. No evidence, no proof, no numbers. Sort of just some “sources” saying “there are reports”. The fact that a handful of Neo Nazis exist in Russia isn’t exactly damming either, that is an unfortunate truth of every country. Most countries just don’t let them influence their government and military.
Meanwhile Ukrainian Nazis keep slipping onto our television screens and news articles. Whoopsie daisy! It’s apparently such a problem the editorial staffs can’t even keep up in hiding it.
 
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jonnyboy said:
Zelensky is the responsible party. And no, he didn’t apologize. The Commons Speaker got thrown under the bus and stepped down as of it somehow excuses the fact that Zelensky is running around with Nazis.
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Thanks Obama!
 
jonnyboy said:
Pretty weak anecdotal example. No evidence, no proof, no numbers. Sort of just some “sources” saying “there are reports”. The fact that a handful of Neo Nazis exist in Russia isn’t exactly damming either, that is an unfortunate truth of every country.
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Agree it wasn't much, I didn't really bother to research it. Since there are a few Nazis in every country, why did you make a big deal out of supposedly (your evidence also weak) some in Ukraine? I suspect that you and most Republicans are naturally inclined to be opposed to russian aggression, but because your cult leader is aligned with them, you blindly follow.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
Agree it wasn't much, I didn't really bother to research it. Since there are a few Nazis in every country, why did you make a big deal out of supposedly (your evidence also weak) some in Ukraine? I suspect that you and most Republicans are naturally inclined to be opposed to russian aggression, but because your cult leader is aligned with them, you blindly follow.
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This is deflection. And projection.
You are brushing off Ukraine’s well documented and basically irrefutable associations with Nazis while simultaneously trying to lump me in with what you see as extremists as a retort to me bringing it up.
 
jonnyboy said:
This is deflection. And projection.
You are brushing off Ukraine’s well documented and basically irrefutable associations with Nazis while simultaneously trying to lump me in with what you see as extremists as a retort to me bringing it up.
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There being some Nazis in Ukraine (assuming this is the case) doesn't make Russia's actions any more acceptable.

It wouldn't change anything.

Zelenski is a Jew. It would take an incredible amount of very reliable and unbiased evidence to convince me that he is sympathetic to Nazis.
 
Phatguysrule said:
There being some Nazis in Ukraine (assuming this is the case) doesn't make Russia's actions any more acceptable.

It wouldn't change anything.

Zelenski is a Jew. It would take an incredible amount of very reliable and unbiased evidence to convince me that he is sympathetic to Nazis.
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Prime minister is also Jewish.
 
Phatguysrule said:
There being some Nazis in Ukraine (assuming this is the case) doesn't make Russia's actions any more acceptable.

It wouldn't change anything.

Zelenski is a Jew. It would take an incredible amount of very reliable and unbiased evidence to convince me that he is sympathetic to Nazis.
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UKRAINEFAN said:
Prime minister is also Jewish.
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So what? Hitler himself quite possibly had Jewish blood. It doesn’t mean anything. Not sure how any of it changes the facts we already have. Zelensky just paraded a Nazi halfway across the world as a hero. He did that. Standing ovations. It happened. We all watched. The depth of Nazi influence within Ukrainian government and military is far outside the margins of error on what’s average or acceptable in any other western country, or any country anywhere for that matter.
 
jonnyboy said:
So what? Hitler himself quite possibly had Jewish blood. It doesn’t mean anything. Not sure how any of it changes the facts we already have. Zelensky just paraded a Nazi halfway across the world as a hero. He did that. Standing ovations. It happened. We all watched. The depth of Nazi influence within Ukrainian government and military is far outside the margins of error on what’s average or acceptable in any other western country, or any country anywhere for that matter.
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Let me know when Ukraine attacks somebody other than Russia or starts engaging in genocide of it's citizens. Then we can start comparing him to Hitler.

It would take an incredible amount of very reliable and unbiased evidence to convince me that Zelenski is sympathetic to Nazis.
 
jonnyboy said:
Zelensky just paraded a Nazi halfway across the world as a hero. He did that. Standing ovations. It happened. We all watched. The depth of Nazi influence within Ukrainian government and military is far outside the margins of error on what’s average or acceptable in any other western country, or any country anywhere for that matter.
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Unfortunately, as usual, you can't stick to the facts. The Canadian Parliament honored a 98 year old veteran; they did not know he had served in a German army unit during WW II. Zelensky certainly didn't know that or even have any foreknowledge that this guy would be honored. The guy is Canadian, Zelensky did not bring him as you imply. Really had nothing to do with Ukraine. Is your argument that USA should not give military aid to Ukraine because a Ukrainian served in the German army 80 years ago?
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
Unfortunately, as usual, you can't stick to the facts. The Canadian Parliament honored a 98 year old veteran; they did not know he had served in a German army unit during WW II. Zelensky certainly didn't know that or even have any foreknowledge that this guy would be honored. The guy is Canadian, Zelensky did not bring him as you imply. Really had nothing to do with Ukraine. Is your argument that USA should not give military aid to Ukraine because a Ukrainian served in the German army 80 years ago?
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We should obviously invade Canada, they're full of old Nazis.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Let me know when Ukraine attacks somebody other than Russia or starts engaging in genocide of it's citizens. Then we can start comparing him to Hitler.

It would take an incredible amount of very reliable and unbiased evidence to convince me that Zelenski is sympathetic to Nazis.
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I wasn’t comparing him to Hitler, moreso making the point that being Jewish, or part of any other group for that matter, doesn’t necessarily bar you from partaking in any contradictory ideologies. I don’t know why the Ukrainian government has so many Nazi ties, it could be for a number of reasons well outside of Zelenskys control. I’m sure the Ukrainian government has its dark, swampy recesses just the same as ours does. Theirs just has a white supremacy flare to it for whatever reason.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
Unfortunately, as usual, you can't stick to the facts. The Canadian Parliament honored a 98 year old veteran; they did not know he had served in a German army unit during WW II. Zelensky certainly didn't know that or even have any foreknowledge that this guy would be honored. The guy is Canadian, Zelensky did not bring him as you imply. Really had nothing to do with Ukraine. Is your argument that USA should not give military aid to Ukraine because a Ukrainian served in the German army 80 years ago?
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Even if one was to give this latest incident a full pass, there are still a whole host of others to choose from that would be much, much harder to defend.
 
jonnyboy said:
I wasn’t comparing him to Hitler, moreso making the point that being Jewish, or part of any other group for that matter, doesn’t necessarily bar you from partaking in any contradictory ideologies. I don’t know why the Ukrainian government has so many Nazi ties, it could be for a number of reasons well outside of Zelenskys control. I’m sure the Ukrainian government has its dark, swampy recesses just the same as ours does. Theirs just has a white supremacy flare to it for whatever reason.
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I've seen no evidence that Zelenski is sympathetic to Nazis, and I assume anything Putin says is a lie.
 
jonnyboy said:
You haven’t looked for it then. Putin doesn’t have anything to do with it.
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Why would I look for something like that? When you search it all you see is Putin spreading propaganda.

I haven't found any legitimate sources that support this theory.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Why would I look for something like that? When you search it all you see is Putin spreading propaganda.

I haven't found any legitimate sources that support this theory.
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Yeah. I imagine the content you selectively consume is a big part of the reason you vehemently support sending hoards of young Ukrainians to certain death in a war that will never be “won” in any sense of the word and cheerleading from a safe distance.
 
How much must the people of Ukraine suffer? russia also hit a hospital in a different town today.
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jonnyboy said:
Yeah. I imagine the content you selectively consume is a big part of the reason you vehemently support sending hoards of young Ukrainians to certain death in a war that will never be “won” in any sense of the word and cheerleading from a safe distance.
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They are being invaded. You don't have to "send" them anywhere.

I support supporting the defense of Ukraine.

A very clear victory will be Ukraine expelling Russian military from the borders of Ukraine and Ukraine controlling its own sovereignty.
 
Phatguysrule said:
They are being invaded. You don't have to "send" them anywhere.

I support supporting the defense of Ukraine.

A very clear victory will be Ukraine expelling Russian military from the borders of Ukraine and Ukraine controlling its own sovereignty.
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They opted out of two peace treaties they said they were going to sign which would’ve avoided all this. Zelensky ran his campaign on signing Minsk I and II accords and then didn’t. He’s a puppet dictator for the west and NATO and the Ukrainian people are being used as human shields for a contractor’s war.
 
jonnyboy said:
They opted out of two peace treaties they said they were going to sign which would’ve avoided all this. Zelensky ran his campaign on signing Minsk I and II accords and then didn’t. He’s a puppet dictator for the west and NATO and the Ukrainian people are being used as human shields for a contractor’s war.
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There is no treaty that justifies Russia invading Ukraine.

Russia can GTFO and I will support the Ukraine defense effort until Russia does exactly that.
 
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