Vote on the debt limit

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Denny, do you mean to say that we have worthless government bonds (as we have nothing to back them with) printed and purchased by the feds and the feds give back a portion of the interest? Seems like a shell game to me.

 

[jlprk]

The Treasurer of the U.S. lacks legal authority to print new currency, so a trillion-dollar bill is out of the question. But he has legal authority to stamp as many coins as he wishes, since Congress figured that was pennies on the dollar.

The Treasurer should simply manufacture several coins in the amount of $1 trillion dollars each. He can store them in Fort Knox. This will increase the money supply and back up America's credit.

If he does this, of course, Republicans will immediately demand tax cuts for the rich, as they did when Bush inherited Clinton's annual surplus. As Republicans said then, what good is a surplus if you're just using it to pay down the debt?

 

[jlprk]

A summary of Karl Rove's latest article, in which he details 2012 campaign strategy, keyed upon causing an economic emergency between now and then.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/07/18/117704/commentary-keeping-some-voters.html

 

[Paxil]

The fact that 25% of the people answering the survey have been convinced that defaulting is a good thing is absolutely mind boggling. The money that think you are saving on taxes (even though no one on here is in a bracket that would raise anyway) will actually be worth *less* when the dollar drops. Oh well... if that makes sense to you I hope all your savings are in gold.

 

[maxiep]

We're securitizing the debt on a pool of properties and was on a conference call about it this morning with Fitch. After we discussed our properties, of course we had a number of questions about their view of what was going on in Washington. Their point of view was interesting. The risk to our credit rating isn't whether or not Ds and Rs agree on a debt limit increase, but rather we'll get serious about tackling our debt. Their position is if we miss this opportunity to change the trajectory of what they view as unsustainable spending, then we'll get downgraded.

They've been talking with our largest holders of Treasuries. The T-bill holders have sent the message in the market that if we're late on a payment or miss a payment or two, it won't be a big deal as long as a deal to alter spending is reached. If we don't do anything about spending and just issue $2.4T more in debt, it WILL be a big deal. as the result of that path will be to devalue the notes they hold.

NO ONE in the markets are worried about default. They know we'll pay our current debt obligations. They're worried about the larger picture. And that's the view of both bond investors and ratings agencies. Anyway, I thought it was interesting.

 

[Denny Crane]

The fact that 25% of the people answering the survey have been convinced that defaulting is a good thing is absolutely mind boggling. The money that think you are saving on taxes (even though no one on here is in a bracket that would raise anyway) will actually be worth *less* when the dollar drops. Oh well... if that makes sense to you I hope all your savings are in gold.

There is no option in the poll to not raise the debt limit and not default. The idea here is to pay the $20B in debt obligations from the $200B in revenues, then prioritize what the remaining $180B gets spent on. Those are monthly amounts, fwiw.

The $20B in IOU payments is the only kind of default that matters.

 

[Denny Crane]

It seems Harry Reid has seen the light. He's going to get bipartisan support for $2.7T in cuts in exchange for a bump in the borrowing limit long enough to last past the 2012 elections. Why the elections matter is the dems don't want to be on the wrong side of this issue again when voters will vote them out.

 

[Denny Crane]

In response to maxiep, one of the former CBO directors was on C-SPAN over the weekend. He said that if we took the president's rosiest scenario from his budget proposal, the deficits would never go below $1.2T. Trajectory, indeed. It's no given that the president's projections will come close to matching reality, they haven't so far.

 

[maxiep]

http://keithhennessey.com/2011/07/25/president-obama-says-no-to-a-bipartisan-debt-limit-plan/

 

[Ed O]

http://keithhennessey.com/2011/07/25/president-obama-says-no-to-a-bipartisan-debt-limit-plan/

The House GOP should pass that and force Reid to help the GOP pass it in the Senate... then let Obama either sign it or try to explain a veto away as something other than pure politics...

Ed O.

 

[barfo]

The House GOP should pass that and force Reid to help the GOP pass it in the Senate... then let Obama either sign it or try to explain a veto away as something other than pure politics...

Ed O.

How does the 'force Reid to help the GOP pass it' part work?

barfo

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

How does the 'force Reid to help the GOP pass it' part work?

barfo

quid pro quo

 

[barfo]

quid pro quo

What's the quo?

barfo

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

What's the quo?

barfo

Probably whatever Reid wants, don't you think?

 

[barfo]

Probably whatever Reid wants, don't you think?

What do you think it is that he wants that the Republicans are both capable of delivering, and willing to deliver?

barfo

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

What do you think it is that he wants that the Republicans are both capable of delivering, and willing to deliver?

barfo

Who ever knows. Maybe a new dam in Nevada or some other pork barrel project. Deals are made all the time in politics.

 

[Denny Crane]

What do you think it is that he wants that the Republicans are both capable of delivering, and willing to deliver?

barfo

$2.7T in spending cuts. And no new taxes.

 

[Ed O]

How does the 'force Reid to help the GOP pass it' part work?

Tell him to put his money where his mouth is. If it's "his" plan, it should be something that he supports. All he has to to is swing four or five Democrats to vote with the GOP in the Senate and they can pass anything.

Ed O.

 

[barfo]

Tell him to put his money where his mouth is. If it's "his" plan, it should be something that he supports. All he has to to is swing four or five Democrats to vote with the GOP in the Senate and they can pass anything.

Ed O.

Ah, I see. I had somehow missed that that article said that Reid was in favor of that particular plan. Yes, if he's actually in favor of it, then he could (and presumably would) just help the republicans pass it. So I suspect he isn't actually in favor of it.

barfo

 

[Ed O]

Ah, I see. I had somehow missed that that article said that Reid was in favor of that particular plan. Yes, if he's actually in favor of it, then he could (and presumably would) just help the republicans pass it. So I suspect he isn't actually in favor of it.

Is he in favor of ANY plan? I thought the GOP was the party of "no".

We'll see if Reid has or has not come up with a plan that cuts spending without increasing revenues. Multiple reports certainly indicate that he has.

Ed O.

 

[maxiep]

Watching President Obama speak and then Speaker Boehner right after him, I had trouble figuring out which one was more orange.

 

[maxiep]

http://keithhennessey.com/2011/07/27/why-i-support-the-boehner-bill/

Not my view, but an interesting analysis.

 

[Sug]

http://keithhennessey.com/2011/07/27/why-i-support-the-boehner-bill/

Not my view, but an interesting analysis.

Best comment

Keith,

You worked as a budget/economic advisor for GWB when he crammed through Medicare Part D, "abandoned the free market" in order to save it, told us Armageddon would happen if not for the $700 billion TARP bailout, and used our money to hand GM over to the unions. You also worked as one of his top advisors when he asked for SEVEN debt limit increases that DOUBLED the debt limit. It took our country 217 years to accumulate as much debt as you and your boss racked up in only eight years.

In short, your support of Boehner's debt package is all I need to know to determine that Boehner's tiny debt package is a terrible, terrible joke.

 

[maxiep]

Best comment

I'm glad you're coming around to the Tea Party point of view, Sug. There's hope for you yet. We're out of money, and the only thing that's going to avoid a credit downgrade is a MASSIVE cut in our budget.