We won't trade Outlaw...

[C_note]

I'm calling it now.

It seems like this entire board is against him, but really I think it's just the win-now fans who bitch and cry all season that are the most vocal. I suspect there's a lot of us who are so fucking sick of refuting and repeating the same concepts over and over, there's just no point anymore. Let this be my one post of the year to do so.

Call it a gut feeling or whatever, but I don't think Outlaw will or should be traded. My gut was right with Randolph, Jack, Outlaw and Webster a few years ago...(Webster maybe still WIP)...and I have the same feeling now. KP seems to think the same way. It's not about winning now, it's about building for the long haul. Travis is so close to the reality of being an excellent backup. He's come so far, there's really not much more he needs to improve. It's true what Roy said...he hasn't had the big game experience some of the others on the team have had. It's not fair to judge the guy based off one playoff series.

Don't get me wrong, I was screaming at the TV because of him during this series just like the rest of you. But I am confident he will learn from this. If I was a GM in this league, Travis is a guy I want on my team. It's as simple as that. Bitch and moan all you want, he's not going anywhere.

Blake is the one we need to get rid of.


P.S. Let me just say, Houston is possibly the best defensive team in the league at the wings...top 3 overall easily.

 

[oldmangrouch]

I've been defending Outlaw all year, but there is a limit.

After 6 seasons, he no longer gets to hide behind the "young player" excuse. He has shown that he *can* play defense, but he rarely actually does it. He is a poor playmaker, and his rebounding is disappointing for a guy with his hops.

I agree with you that Houston is a high quality defensive team - but when the only thing a player really brings to the table is his scoring, he has to be able to bring that *every* night, not just against the easy teams.

 

[craigehlo]

If we expect to get to the next level you need players like Outlaw, that contribute almost 30 minutes per game, to be more than inconsistent scorers. He's poor rebounder and below average defender even with 6 seasons under his belt. There's not a lot of positive intangibles to his game.

His performance would be fine if he only played 10 minutes per game, but I don't think he'll even accept such a diminished role at this point in his career.

I'm a fan of renouncing his team option and then using the saving int he FA market, but I have a feeling he'll only be moved in a trade.

 

[Sinobas]

Travis did not improve this season, he has actually regressed a little bit since last year, his numbers reflect that.

To say Outlaw doesn't need to improve on much is so ridiculous is almost not even worth discussing, he needs to improve at EVERYTHING. He's been a one trick pony from the beginning of his career. That trick being, that he can elevate above almost anyone to get his jumper off. But he's had that since is sophomore year, where he shot nearly 50% from the field! The only area Travis has improved on is his 3pt shooting.

He has 6 seasons under his belt, and I'm sure that if KP doesn't trade him, we'll still have Travis defenders 5 years down the road when he's an 11 year NBA Vet, still waiting for him to "finally get it".

 

[Tince]

I'm not against outlaw, though I'm not against trading him either. I would agree that he is more likely to be on the roster than not.

 

[Wheels]

I'm not one of those win now overly vocal people... and I want him gone.. The point of not making moves at the deadline was to go to war with what we had and see what would happen.. now we have seen who will be able to step up and who adds almost nothing when we need it most. A weeding out if you will. Now as long as Travis is here I will root for him to succeed.. but at this point I have seen enough of him to understand that he is what he is.. and he wont improve or add much to this team when he isnt scoring. I love Outlaw and think he is a great guy.. and a good locker room guy.. but in the end this is about winning.. and Outlaw isnt adding to that.

 

[TehChad]

Well C Note, what do we do at the SF position next year then? With Webster's return, we have three quality SFs all capable of being starters, and I doubt Nate will find much playing time for all three. Instead, one is going to get benched every game and only play during garbage time (ala Bayless most of this season). There's no way Outlaw or Webster would be willing to do that, and Batum has WAY too much upside and is too good already to never play again. At least one of these three has to go in my mind, and if Martell makes a solid return from his injury (which I fully suspect he will), then Outlaw is just the weakest link. We also have a similar situation is going on at PG imo, and I really hope we find some PT for Bayless or trade him. He's another guy with a lot of potential.

It's unfortunate and I like Outlaw as much as the next guy, but Batum's emergence has changed things dramatically.

 

[MrJayremmie]

I don't want Outlaw gone, but I suspect either him or Webster will be gone before next season because the logjam at the SF spot.

 

[MAS RipCity]

Trav's going nowhere! Deal with it!

 

[Nikolokolus]

I don't know who is going and who is staying, but carrying 3 young small forwards in Batum, Webster and Trout seems a little unlikely. They all can't play and you're wasting money on the ones who end up with DNPs. The only way you can carry this many players at a single position is if their ages are spaced out such as: 1st or second year guy, a player in his prime and a 30+ year old -- this way young guys who are buried on the bench see a light at the end of the tunnel as the hoary vet rides off into the sunset.

 

[MAS RipCity]

Batum is staying..bottom line..I don't think I'll get any arguments from that one..hell KP turned down every deal involving him
Martell can play the 2 or 3..could stay if we trade Rudy while his value is high
Travis can play the 3 or 4..most likely will stay as he is more valuable to us than others

 

[bigbailes]

i also am not a "win now" guy and i think trout should be traded, but i don't know if he will be traded. i agree that he is in his 6th year and isn't going to change much. he's good at elevating over his defender but he still doesn't rebound or play defense and he's at a position where the other two players have more "upside". i think that we also saw in the playoffs that another PF that is willing to do the little things is important and if we bring in that guy that means the travis at PF experiment will be over.

 

[bigbailes]

Trav's going nowhere! Deal with it!

i guess we know now what SN Pritchard goes by.

 

[LittleAlex]

Outlaw won't get traded because no wants to trade for him.

 

[MrSelfDestruct]

If we expect to get to the next level you need players like Outlaw, that contribute almost 30 minutes per game, to be more than inconsistent scorers. He's poor rebounder and below average defender even with 6 seasons under his belt. There's not a lot of positive intangibles to his game.

His performance would be fine if he only played 10 minutes per game, but I don't think he'll even accept such a diminished role at this point in his career.

I'm a fan of renouncing his team option and then using the saving int he FA market, but I have a feeling he'll only be moved in a trade.

Agreed 100%.

 

[Natebishop3]

I say cut Travis Outlaw. Fuck trading him.

 

[oldmangrouch]

BTW, I love how some people use "win now fan" as an insult. How is being a "lose now" fan anything to boast about?

Damn straight I am a "win now" fan - and proud of it. There is no "next year" to wait till....just ask NO.

 

[Ghost Pepper]

Outlaw has to play very well on offense to make up for his very bad defense and we all know that. If we had Prince, Artest or Wallace I'd think those easy baskets to the rim against us would go wayyyyy down!

 

[Tince]

BTW, I love how some people use "win now fan" as an insult. How is being a "lose now" fan anything to boast about?

Damn straight I am a "win now" fan - and proud of it. There is no "next year" to wait till....just ask NO.

We won 54 games and lost 28. We won now, we just didn't beat a great Houston team in the playoffs.

It's not that people are coming across as "win now", it's more that they think unless we win it all, the season is a failure.

 

[Ghost Pepper]

The season is far far from a failure, but there are glaring issues that must be addressed if we expect to ever get out of the first round. Defensive IQ players, and a PG that can feed ODEN and often are on top of the list! The good teams in the NBA that we will see next year same time, and same channel understand our defense sucks and we can't get the ball into our big men and ROY and LA are the whole team. Not fixing these problems for the hope that Travis is finally going to get it makes zilch sense. Having another year of watching Sergio not play defense and Blake not be able to find Oden doesn't get us to the next level, it just idles the boat another year.

 

[C_note]

Well C Note, what do we do at the SF position next year then? With Webster's return, we have three quality SFs all capable of being starters, and I doubt Nate will find much playing time for all three. Instead, one is going to get benched every game and only play during garbage time (ala Bayless most of this season). There's no way Outlaw or Webster would be willing to do that, and Batum has WAY too much upside and is too good already to never play again. At least one of these three has to go in my mind, and if Martell makes a solid return from his injury (which I fully suspect he will), then Outlaw is just the weakest link. We also have a similar situation is going on at PG imo, and I really hope we find some PT for Bayless or trade him. He's another guy with a lot of potential.

It's unfortunate and I like Outlaw as much as the next guy, but Batum's emergence has changed things dramatically.

I say we get rid of Frye and Blake and put Travis at the backup PF. That's ideal. LMA 35-40 Webster 25-30 Batum 20, OUtlaw filling in the gaps. There's just barely enough room.

 

[C_note]

BTW, I love how some people use "win now fan" as an insult. How is being a "lose now" fan anything to boast about?

Damn straight I am a "win now" fan - and proud of it. There is no "next year" to wait till....just ask NO.

I'm saying these people will always find something to bitch about, as failure will always be realized in their eyes...Then of course the ludicrous trade everyone proposals start, the crying, the bitching...I'm sure you get the picture.

 

[C_note]

The season is far far from a failure, but there are glaring issues that must be addressed if we expect to ever get out of the first round. Defensive IQ players, and a PG that can feed ODEN and often are on top of the list! The good teams in the NBA that we will see next year same time, and same channel understand our defense sucks and we can't get the ball into our big men and ROY and LA are the whole team. Not fixing these problems for the hope that Travis is finally going to get it makes zilch sense. Having another year of watching Sergio not play defense and Blake not be able to find Oden doesn't get us to the next level, it just idles the boat another year.

I agree 100%. These are the 2 issues I would point out first as well. Outlaw obviously needs to improve still, and he will I think...but people have made him the scapegoat. The truth is, our defense is fucking horrible and our PGs can't do their goddamn jobs...that's why we lost.

 

[Wheels]

I say we get rid of Frye and Blake and put Travis at the backup PF. That's ideal. LMA 35-40 Webster 25-30 Batum 20, OUtlaw filling in the gaps. There's just barely enough room.

There are a total of 96 Minutes between both forward positions... with your bare minimum minute predictions of LA at 35 Webster at 25 and Batum at 20.. thats 80 minutes right there.. that leaves 16 minutes For Outlaw.. with our better players playing the minimum... sorry it just doesnt work.

 

[RayDavies]

I think Outlaw is a decent bargain for what he is paid. He is relaxed in the clutch and a solid jump shooter. He seems like the type of guy who floats through the game at times, not giving his best effort or at least not playing as determined as he could. When he is into the game, he can be a killer- blocking shots, grabbing boards and driving to the hole. He will also jack up crazy shots with plenty of time on the clock, make terrible passes into traffic, and get discouraged/hesitant for stretches.

Travis might have the worst lateral movement of any SF in the NBA... he can barely keep his man in front of him when he has to guard an offensive minded 3; he is a liability on Defense when guarding a strong 4 as well. All the positive mismatches he creates are on offense, however he doesn't seem to know when to take advantage of them most of the time (see Outlaw posting up a 1, only to kick it out to a man who isn't open).

Why some folks seem to think he is some kind of amazing player who is untouchable, is beyond me. There is a reason he comes of the bench. He is a slightly above average NBA player who is still inconsistent. Could he break out and become a star? After 6 years in the league, you would think we would have seen flashes by now.

If we could somehow use Trav to upgrade at PG or SF, I sure hope we do it. Batum, Webster, and Outlaw= 3 below average starters. Something has to give...

 

[C_note]

I think Outlaw is a decent bargain for what he is paid. He is relaxed in the clutch and a solid jump shooter. He seems like the type of guy who floats through the game at times, not giving his best effort or at least not playing as determined as he could. When he is into the game, he can be a killer- blocking shots, grabbing boards and driving to the hole. He will also jack up crazy shots with plenty of time on the clock, make terrible passes into traffic, and get discouraged/hesitant for stretches.

Travis might have the worst lateral movement of any SF in the NBA... he can barely keep his man in front of him when he has to guard an offensive minded 3; he is a liability on Defense when guarding a strong 4 as well. All the positive mismatches he creates are on offense, however he doesn't seem to know when to take advantage of them most of the time (see Outlaw posting up a 1, only to kick it out to a man who isn't open).

Why some folks seem to think he is some kind of amazing player who is untouchable, is beyond me. There is a reason he comes of the bench. He is a slightly above average NBA player who is still inconsistent. Could he break out and become a star? After 6 years in the league, you would think we would have seen flashes by now.

If we could somehow use Trav to upgrade at PG or SF, I sure hope we do it. Batum, Webster, and Outlaw= 3 below average starters. Something has to give...

Lol, this is a joke. Outlaw is an above-average man defender...everyone gets beat from time to time though...

Where he's terrible defensively is playing a zone. But I like how you point out things that are completely false.

 

[RayDavies]

Lol, this is a joke. Outlaw is an above-average man defender...everyone gets beat from time to time though...

Where he's terrible defensively is playing a zone. But I like how you point out things that are completely false.

Outlaw is by no means an above-average defender. What games are you watching?

you say what I am saying is false...Like what?

 

[andalusian]

Outlaw actually is a very good man defender when he pays attention and is committed to defense. The real problem with his defense is that he is not often paying attention. A shame - because he has the tools to be really good at it.

 

[Ed O]

Lol, this is a joke. Outlaw is an above-average man defender...everyone gets beat from time to time though...

Where he's terrible defensively is playing a zone. But I like how you point out things that are completely false.

I would put him in the "gets lit up on a regular basis" group, rather than "above-average".

Does he have the tools to be better? Probably. I don't think that it's likely that he will improve markedly, though, given the number of chances he's had and number of minutes he's played.

Ed O.

 

[yakbladder]

Outlaw actually is a very good man defender when he pays attention and is committed to defense. The real problem with his defense is that he is not often paying attention. A shame - because he has the tools to be really good at it.

When he pays attention, knows what he's doing, and has practiced the same routine through a bazillion games and practices.

The problem is he has a tendency to lapse during games. We've all seen it - the guy ends up out of position and looks lost. I don't know if he's under-thinking it or over-thinking it. He seems like a nice guy who has an incredible host of athletic ability. Unfortunately, at least to me, he rarely seems to take advantage of that ability.

In any event, I think that he has one tangible quality that we'd need to find to replace him - and that's the ability(?) / nerve (?) / guts (?) / stupidity (?) to take the 4Q shots. Someone besides Roy who can take and make a game winner. I feel like LMA may be a possibility, but we won't know till next year.