What if we trade nobody?

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PtldPlatypus said:
If we deal Brogdon now, sure. But I kinda feel like Scoot/Sharpe/Brogdon makes more sense in the short and long term than Scoot/Ant/Sharpe.
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agree because if our young guys pop in the starting lineup and we are near playoff ready we need a seasoned legit bench. Id rather move Simons and some for a young front court guy like a Wagner from Orlando.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
I want to have faith in the FO. I just don't. I have yet to be particularly impressed by a Cronin-led deadline deal. I'm hoping this year is different, but I'm certainly not holding my breath.
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Then my post wasn't directed to you, Plat.

I think you'd admit that there are people out there, though, that will hate on the FO (or a person, organization, ideology, duck-billed mammal, etc.) regardless of the data and outcomes, especially when the outcomes haven't yet been realized. There is a group of people that won't be satisfied with anything other than a championship won on their own parameters leading to said championship. Which might be fine, but just own that POV. If one wants to be a fountain of negativity or pick the low-hanging fruit, OK, just don't try to costume it as something else.
 
Phatguysrule said:
That's a bad gamble with his health, IMO. I don't see any way we get more out of Brogdon next year than now or this summer. And keeping him for a few months longer isn't going to be a major factor in the development of our young players.

Just my opinion, but Brogdon is worth as much now as he will be the rest of his career. However, I'd be very happy for him if he proved me wrong. I just wouldn't want to count on it if I'm building a team.
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It's no worse a gamble than trading him for spare parts and letting the young guys figure it out on their own. Six of one, half-dozen of another. There's room for nuance.
 
Samuel said:
I'm sorta meh on Cronin and this coaching staff, but I believe they are trying to get Brogdon to a good spot and get value back—and they're willing wait out teams until they get what they're looking for.
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Yeah.

There are any number of reasons to play this either way. There are varying degrees of validity to all of them. Being meh on Cronin does not = the reverse pollyannaism we see here (or, in fairness, every fan board I've ever been part of). He got a better return on Dame than most fans (and pretty much any pundit) said he would in the midst of that send-him-to-Miami nonsense. He got Matisse and Camara for nothing, a first for Josh Hart, discovered a playable backup C in 27-year-old journeyman Duop Reath. None of those are major victories, but they still should go into his plus column. That alone should earn him a certain amount of latitude.
 
PCmor7 said:
It's no worse a gamble than trading him for spare parts and letting the young guys figure it out on their own. Six of one, half-dozen of another. There's room for nuance.
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I don't think a first round pick is spare parts.

And I think a first would be a far better risk to take.
 
PCmor7 said:
Yeah.

There are any number of reasons to play this either way. There are varying degrees of validity to all of them. Being meh on Cronin does not = the reverse pollyannaism we see here (or, in fairness, every fan board I've ever been part of). He got a better return on Dame than most fans (and pretty much any pundit) said he would in the midst of that send-him-to-Miami nonsense. He got Matisse and Camara for nothing, a first for Josh Hart, discovered a playable backup C in 27-year-old journeyman Duop Reath. None of those are major victories, but they still should go into his plus column. That alone should earn him a certain amount of latitude.
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this summer reminded me that GMs don't like to broadcast their intentions. so if we're unclear on what the direction is, that's often intentional. as fans we project our anxieties onto that lack of certainty and will sometimes read it as a 'lack of a plan.' I think GMs have general ideas of where they want to go, and players they want to monitor and make a move for, but often times it's about being hyper-flexible and keeping movable value players on the books so that if you do need to pivot, you can.

a firesale team isn't going to get great offers if they're believed to be selling items at a discount—everything must go—and the other teams know that.

a tax team is going to leveraged by the market because the other teams know they intend to get under by the deadline.

a team with an expiring player who will very obviously not re-sign will probably not return full value because there's not as much team control baked in—and the other teams know that.

the mystery is intentional.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I don't think a first round pick is spare parts.

And I think a first would be a far better risk to take.
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It's going to drive Sly crazy, but it depends where and when. I'd counter that, first, that's subjective in valuable compensation, and, second, a first-round pick would do nothing in regards to changing what I said about leaving a bunch of young, inexperienced players to try to figure it out by themselves.

In that sense, I'm not sure where your disagreement is with my post. A first-round pick might in a vacuum be a reasonable return, but it's still a gamble, is it not? And the deeper you get into the first round, the bigger a gamble it is, is it not?

I don't think your response to me really is addressing the point I was making. If I wasn't clear, my bad. I just don't see what you feel about the worth of a hypothetical future first that I never even brought into the discussion has to do with what I said.
 
Hoopguru said:
agree because if our young guys pop in the starting lineup and we are near playoff ready we need a seasoned legit bench. Id rather move Simons and some for a young front court guy like a Wagner from Orlando.
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Well Wagner certainly wouldn't be a realistic return on an Ant deal. But the one I suggested above--a FRP, a recent lottery pick (who isn't getting any PT), and a young, low-risk reclamation project would be pretty reasonable.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Well Wagner certainly wouldn't be a realistic return on an Ant deal. But the one I suggested above--a FRP, a recent lottery pick (who isn't getting any PT), and a young, low-risk reclamation project would be pretty reasonable.
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I honestly think unless Joe and Chauncey have just been posturing all season in regards to Ant it would take more than that for any team to pry Ant away from this team at this point. Do not get me wrong, I think he makes both Scoot and Shaedon much worse when either young guy shares the floor with Ant and I wish we would trade him for a reasonable offer like your idea, I just think Joe is really in love with Ant's game and who knows how big of a role Joe had in drafting Ant.

I guess my biggest wish is that a team would blow Joe away with an offer and we would trade Ant and come away with a ridiculous haul. It's the only way I see Ant leaving right now no matter if any of us like it or not.
 
PCmor7 said:
It's going to drive Sly crazy, but it depends where and when. I'd counter that, first, that's subjective in valuable compensation, and, second, a first-round pick would do nothing in regards to changing what I said about leaving a bunch of young, inexperienced players to try to figure it out by themselves.

In that sense, I'm not sure where your disagreement is with my post. A first-round pick might in a vacuum be a reasonable return, but it's still a gamble, is it not? And the deeper you get into the first round, the bigger a gamble it is, is it not?

I don't think your response to me really is addressing the point I was making. If I wasn't clear, my bad. I just don't see what you feel about the worth of a hypothetical future first that I never even brought into the discussion has to do with what I said.
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Not so much disagreeing with your position as clarifying my position. I don't think we should deal Brogdon for spare parts.

I think there are plenty of vets we could bring in to show the kids the ropes who wouldn't also have to take their minutes.
 
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Phatguysrule said:
Not so much disagreeing with your position as clarifying my position.

I think there are plenty of vets we could bring in to show the kids the ropes who wouldn't also take their minutes
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Agree that we can also bring in other vets.

Was just finishing up the Simons -Redick interview that was referenced earlier and there's the part early on where Simons mentions Dame coming to him, being a mentor, etc. in his rookie year, and how big it was. And then later on in the interview, what hasn't been mentioned in this thread(conveniently?) i him talking about how he is helping Scoot in that same way.
I know others have kind of mentioned it but, I see no reason why Ant can't be that mentor for Scoot. Brogdon came in to the league as a 24 year old rookie. Simons, much like Scoot, came in at 19, with no college experience what so ever Has gone through similar learning curves as Scoot, even more so. Feels very relatable.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Interesting suggestion from the Magic RealGM board:

ORL sends Fultz, Chuma, ORL 25 frp (top 5), ORL 26 srp for Brogdon
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not very interested in trading Brogdon for another guard; would depend of protections for the pick I suppose

I'd wonder about Ant for WCJ, Harris, and that 1st
 
wizenheimer said:
not very interested in trading Brogdon for another guard; would depend of protections for the pick I suppose

I'd wonder about Ant for WCJ, Harris, and that 1st
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top 5 protected.
And Fultz is strictly there to match salary.
IMO, that's an awful trade for Simons, but that's not a road worth going down. Though I'd suggest listening to some Orlando fans discuss WCJ
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Interesting suggestion from the Magic RealGM board:

ORL sends Fultz, Chuma, ORL 25 frp (top 5), ORL 26 srp for Brogdon
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That meets the threshold of an adequate deal... No issues with proceeding here.
 
we are nobody so perhaps we do nobody things
 
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Natebishop3 said:
Sure but you misquoted me even when it was something that actually was pretty clearly written. People misinterpret statements all the time and they draw their own conclusions.
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No I didn't. I clarified it and asked you about it and from what I saw you never responded, which can be typical around here. Very few times does anyone say, you are right about this. Instead, just ignore and move on. Sly comes at me with WTF and I clarify him things and ask him questions and he doesn't respond. Likely, like what typically happens around here, because he feels I'm right but doesn't want to admit so, because you know. I'm me.

I'm pretty sure knows I'm right when I say its best to be details to avoid confusion. He knows I'm right when I say vague statements can be backtracked on. But won't admit he agrees with me or I'm right on that. If he doesn't agree... holy shit man.....
I also said I'm guilty of making that mistake and am working on it. But I'm not the only one how makes that mistake, but pretty sure the only one honest ands real enough to admit it, but yet no one gives credit to me for that statement. LOL.
I made valid points that I'm sure most agree with and it was dismissed... as usual. There is no room for me in this conversation I see, so Ill move on bro. Have at it. :cheers:
 
PCmor7 said:
Then my post wasn't directed to you, Plat.

I think you'd admit that there are people out there, though, that will hate on the FO (or a person, organization, ideology, duck-billed mammal, etc.) regardless of the data and outcomes, especially when the outcomes haven't yet been realized. There is a group of people that won't be satisfied with anything other than a championship won on their own parameters leading to said championship. Which might be fine, but just own that POV. If one wants to be a fountain of negativity or pick the low-hanging fruit, OK, just don't try to costume it as something else.
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Who are those people? I don't think anyone would hate on Cronin if he traded Malcolm for a 1st. And I talk to a ton of people that can't stand Cronin...
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Well Wagner certainly wouldn't be a realistic return on an Ant deal. But the one I suggested above--a FRP, a recent lottery pick (who isn't getting any PT), and a young, low-risk reclamation project would be pretty reasonable.
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Is its that Orlando wouldn't part with Franz Wagner, that he's more valuable to them. I realize we would have to take on a bad contract and/or engineer a workable trade. He's young enough and fits what we would be looking for he's better imo than Isaac.
 
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BonesJones said:
Who are those people? I don't think anyone would hate on Cronin if he traded Malcolm for a 1st. And I talk to a ton of people that can't stand Cronin...
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I'm sure there would be a few people who either overvalue Brogdon or will critize Cronin regardless of what he does. But, to your point, I think the majority understand that's probably the going rate for Brogdon.
 
Hoopguru said:
Is its that Orlando wouldn't part with Franz Wagner, that he's more valuable to them. I realize we would have to take on a bad contract and/or engineer a workable trade. He's young enough and fits what we would be looking for he's better imo than Isaac.
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Obviously Wagner would be preferable to Isaac. But I'm fully convinced that he's not available for anything we could offer.

Edit: That said...

 
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