What if we trade nobody?

[Whyachi]

Everyone should stop complaining. Cronin likes where this team is going.

i believe Joe said 'happy' 22 times. I wonder if that was planned? Clyde Drexler representin'

 

[BIG Q]

Has anyone asked Cronin what it is specifically he likes? I would be interested. I’m thinking he likes having a good paying job. But about the team, what’s he like? There is a lot of uncertainty up and down the lineup. At least with KP we knew what his thoughts were for the most part. And of course let the cake bake. But Aldridge, Roy and Oden oozed talent and you could see it. Then injuries. With this current incarnation of Blazers basketball I see no direction. I see two timelines being straddled and the treadmill starting up soon.

 

[BIG Q]

And let me add, if he jumps this team onto the treadmill trying to make the play in next season, he should be fired, but won’t be. His marching orders come from Seattle. They do not have enough talent and the guys like Walker, Murray and Rupert are just meh when talking about strong roll players in the future. There’s no diamond in the rough. If Scoot or Sharpe don’t hit, along with a good rookie this year it will be until the team is sold for any light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[BonesJones]

I think I’m right but I try to keep an open mind. And to me, and no one has said anything new to change my mind. It’s been the same thing cycled over and over. I see Grant’s value being just fine in a year or two. Back half of his contract and hopefully continues near all star level play, which I see no reason why he can’t sustain his play for another 18-24 months when we can push some chips in to make that big swing.
If you are right that it takes longer, 3-4 years then maybe you are correct he diminishes. But I see the raw talent of our youth hopefully blossoming next season and full bloom the following.

Brogdon is in a position we presumably no longer need to address with the future of Scoot and Sharpe so he can be the other salary filler to go get a max contract all start. Him, Grant and picks in 18 months, for an all star in position of need is possible. Aston and Brogdon and picks for a position of need could be possible.
In the mean time, let Brogdon continue to help the kids. And if we trade grant/Ant and picks for an Embiid type, extend Brogdon and let him be our 6th man. Contenders need deep vet benches and he could be that 6th man.
With that said, the best angle might be trading Ant/Grant or Ant/Ayton for that difference maker.
I see many options in 18-24 months.
This is, of course if the youngsters pop. But until we confirm whether they are the core future, I just don’t see it as big of a deal to make a move now.

Same.

It seems like we agree on some things, because if I felt like we could contend in two years I'd be much more inclined to want to keep Grant. I'm just not as confident in that as you are.

I'd rather take a little extra time to build a sustainable contender instead of rushing things to try to get there too soon. I feel like there's some serious risk of getting stuck in the middle again and I want to avoid that.

I also feel like trading the vets now and embracing the struggle for a couple more years is the best way to avoid that as well as hedge our bets off the youngsters don't pop because we should get a couple more top draft picks and would have extra assets.

End of the day, the goal should be to contend even if we disagree on how. I hope the organization has that same goal.

 

[BonesJones]

 

[AngryFan]

They better be traded this summer and not for some borderline all-star. If the franchise is serious about contending we need a player with top 5 in the league potential.

Either Shaedon or Scoot have to pop and show that or we have to keep shedding talent to stay at the bottom of the league.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Same.

It seems like we agree on some things, because if I felt like we could contend in two years I'd be much more inclined to want to keep Grant. I'm just not as confident in that as you are.

I'd rather take a little extra time to build a sustainable contender instead of rushing things to try to get there too soon. I feel like there's some serious risk of getting stuck in the middle again and I want to avoid that.

I also feel like trading the vets now and embracing the struggle for a couple more years is the best way to avoid that as well as hedge our bets off the youngsters don't pop because we should get a couple more top draft picks and would have extra assets.

End of the day, the goal should be to contend even if we disagree on how. I hope the organization has that same goal.

Here is the thing though. Ive said several times my opinion may be wrong but..etc.

But several on the opposite side are condescending in their posts.
Management( and thus, anyone agreeing with management) is short sided.
This is simple( implying those who think otherwise cant even think simply)
Are statements that cement an opinion and show zero ability to even entertain the possibility that there might be even a portion of their opinion could be off.
These statements show the people making them are so firm in their opinion, they think it is fact.
We are debating a future timeline of which there are no facts and the way some post their opinions does not at all make me think they understand its an opinion but instead think their opinions or stance is factual and anyone sho disagrees is an idiot.
When some people post in that manner, it solidifies my thought that they are immovable in their thoughts regardless of none of it being factual.
Makes having discussions very difficult. We Re all hypothesizing about the moves the Blazers do or don't make, but some post as if they are in the room and know all the details that led to the decisions to make moves or not make moves.
Its a very condescending conversational style that gains little respect from me and actually pushes me to return in kind( mostly in mockery).

its not the opinions themselves, its how those opinions are presented. To be clear I'm not singling you out. Actually I'm thinking of one or two other posters in particular that consistently talk down to those with opposing opinions as if they aren't right in the head or something…and these are the same posters that bitch and complain about sooo many things every day.
but i guess I'm being short sided or something in this. Lol.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Same.

It seems like we agree on some things, because if I felt like we could contend in two years I'd be much more inclined to want to keep Grant. I'm just not as confident in that as you are.

I'd rather take a little extra time to build a sustainable contender instead of rushing things to try to get there too soon. I feel like there's some serious risk of getting stuck in the middle again and I want to avoid that.

I also feel like trading the vets now and embracing the struggle for a couple more years is the best way to avoid that as well as hedge our bets off the youngsters don't pop because we should get a couple more top draft picks and would have extra assets.

End of the day, the goal should be to contend even if we disagree on how. I hope the organization has that same goal.

To be clear. I dont think we can contend in two years. I think we could be a playin/lower playoff seed in two years. And that is when we then push the chips in to bump ourselves into contention for the following few years.

I think, in two years, if I'm wrong, then we clean house again over the next year, trading for more future picks/assets and try to draft a new core towards the end of the decade when we have the additional firsts we already have, to sift through the drafts for those potential core gems.

 

[Hoopguru]

IMO, one of he main reason Joe has hung around so long with the mothership is that besides being a numbers guy he has that nice guy/play it safe personality that doesn't rub anyone wrong at Corporate. Perfect candidate for Bert & Jody to continue their strategy for the organization which, imo, its to create enough excitement to sell seats, stay under the cap and be profitable. I may be wrong but Im not so sure Joe has the negotiating/persistence skills to thrive as NBA GM. Sure, he may have a few discussions and make a few calls but I just get the feeling that he doesn't want take any risk and if he gets a negative vibe in the beginning process, he moves on. For me, this offseason will be the final exam for Joe. This really is the third year in a rebuild, not year one as many think.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Yeah he should’ve said…”we suck and I’m looking to trade everyone”

that’s what us fans deserve right?
Let every other team know we do not like our players. “ hey guys we really dont Like thybulle! Can someone give us a protected 2nd round pick?”

I think everyone knows the position requires a bit of a salesman type of disposition, but then some fans get all mad when he portrays such disposition, which is needed to keep the cards close hold.
Even if he thinks we don't have the talent we thought we had, why on earth would he publicly admit such a thing?

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Cronin proved at the presser that he is a complete idiot and if this does not open the eyes of some of his fans / supporters then I am afraid nothing will short of two years down the road and this team is still rebuilding and no closer to doing anything.

Can yoy name a GM presser from any team that is 100% forthright and honest? What you want is not reality and backs him into a corner for future negotiations.

 

[riverman]

Every GM has the same disclaimer..."unless something pops up that makes us better" .....GMs speculate just like fans do...I don't think that's the same as lying....lying would be trading damaged players without disclosure, etc....they are in the franchise projection business. Why shouldn't Joe be happy? Because some podcast isn't happy? This team has building blocks and it's not poorly constructed...there is room for better offensive production but we have two way players and the best bench we've had in years.

 

[BonesJones]

Every GM has the same disclaimer..."unless something pops up that makes us better" .....GMs speculate just like fans do...I don't think that's the same as lying....lying would be trading damaged players without disclosure, etc....they are in the franchise projection business. Why shouldn't Joe be happy? Because some podcast isn't happy? This team has building blocks and it's not poorly constructed...there is room for better offensive production but we have two way players and the best bench we've had in years.

Yes, that podcast rules everything, glad you figured it out.

 

[BonesJones]

IMO, one of he main reason Joe has hung around so long with the mothership is that besides being a numbers guy he has that nice guy/play it safe personality that doesn't rub anyone wrong at Corporate. Perfect candidate for Bert & Jody to continue their strategy for the organization which, imo, its to create enough excitement to sell seats, stay under the cap and be profitable. I may be wrong but Im not so sure Joe has the negotiating/persistence skills to thrive as NBA GM. Sure, he may have a few discussions and make a few calls but I just get the feeling that he doesn't want take any risk and if he gets a negative vibe in the beginning process, he moves on. For me, this offseason will be the final exam for Joe. This really is the third year in a rebuild, not year one as many think.

Exactly. Well said.

 

[Samuel]

Can yoy name a GM presser from any team that is 100% forthright and honest? What you want is not reality and backs him into a corner for future negotiations.

Joe isn’t a great GM but folks are gonna cook this guy as long as this team is rebuilding. He just got lampooned consecutively for his deadline and offseason pressers for getting bullied into revealing his hand (‘we cant wait to overpay for someone’). Keep it positive keep it vague. If I had any minor critique for his pressers the dude should put a narrative framework around his rebuild; morey had the process, Pritchard had ‘let it bake’, Joe has ‘we want to be good next year.’ (ha)

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Joe isn’t a great GM but folks are gonna cook this guy as long as this team is rebuilding. He just got lampooned consecutively for his deadline and offseason pressers for getting bullied into revealing his hand (‘we cant wait to overpay for someone’). Keep it positive keep it vague. If I had any minor critique for his pressers the dude should put a narrative framework around his rebuild; morey had the process, Pritchard had ‘let it bake’, Joe has ‘we want to be good next year.’ (ha)

Thats a fair take i agree with.

 

[riverman]

Yes, that podcast rules everything, glad you figured it out.

No...the podcast that is consistently unhappy with the the organization and rants against it ? ....maybe that's your rule but Bones, I don't need to figure it out. Your not the only unhappy podcast covering the Blazers although I'm sure you see it that way. Richman is unhappy with the trade deadline and has a podcast.....I subscribe to a handful of Blazer podcasts so don't get too full of yourself. I generalized my post but if you want to take it personally, well that's in line with your rules I guess. Choices. I check your podcast regularly Torey ...last one you compared Danalo Banton to Mario Herzonjia....we disagree about that and that's ok.

 

[Ed O]

Joe isn’t a great GM but folks are gonna cook this guy as long as this team is rebuilding. He just got lampooned consecutively for his deadline and offseason pressers for getting bullied into revealing his hand (‘we cant wait to overpay for someone’). Keep it positive keep it vague. If I had any minor critique for his pressers the dude should put a narrative framework around his rebuild; morey had the process, Pritchard had ‘let it bake’, Joe has ‘we want to be good next year.’ (ha)

I don't agree that he'd be getting criticized during a rebuild no matter what he did... we have one of the worst teams and one of the highest payrolls. We don't have an extraordinary amount of draft capital in the next couple of drafts. We only have one player of consequence above 6'9" on our roster. We are being ravaged by injuries. We have a first-time head coach that has one of the worst winning percentages in NBA history for guys who've coached 200+ games (I think he's 13th or so at the moment).

He is failing on almost every front, so while I think it's possible that he'd be criticized if he were doing a lot of things right during a rebuild, I don't think we know that based on how he's falling on his face in almost every way as a GM so far.

(Two good things: Sharpe and Scoot are good picks, no one is getting arrested. I can't really think of many beyond that.)

 

[GrandpaBlaze]

I don't agree that he'd be getting criticized during a rebuild no matter what he did... we have one of the worst teams and one of the highest payrolls. We don't have an extraordinary amount of draft capital in the next couple of drafts. We only have one player of consequence above 6'9" on our roster. We are being ravaged by injuries. We have a first-time head coach that has one of the worst winning percentages in NBA history for guys who've coached 200+ games (I think he's 13th or so at the moment).

He is failing on almost every front, so while I think it's possible that he'd be criticized if he were doing a lot of things right during a rebuild, I don't think we know that based on how he's falling on his face in almost every way as a GM so far.

(Two good things: Sharpe and Scoot are good picks, no one is getting arrested. I can't really think of many beyond that.)

Since Joe's taken over we've had anything but stability with respect to our roster.

Previously we had largely the same core and a few changes around the outside to give the illusion of progress.

We have no such illusion now. Since the start of the 2022 season, the Blazers have had 46 players log minutes. Consider this with respect to new players:

• 2017 - 5 new players
  
• 2018 - 4 new players
  
• 2019 - 7 new players
  
• 2020 - 9 new players
  
• 2021 - 8 new players
• 2022 - 20 new players
• 2023 - 14 new players
• 2024 (so far) - 14 new players

Billups hasn't proven anything coaching-wise (other than his teams lose a lot) but then again, he is often playing with the equivalent of a pick-up roster. Hard to judge a guy when half his players are injured.

Its almost like he is coaching a "Replacements" team (without Keanu Reeves) vs. real teams. Yes, we lose a lot and sometimes get blown out but amazingly enough, we aren't the worst out there.

However, that being said, if the cycling through players continues for much longer, then the problem really does start pointing at the GM doing something wrong. You can only blame injuries for so long.

Of course, if some had their way, we'd trade anyone that's been here for more than two seasons or is above the legal drinking age and draft a bunch of new guys to start the cycle all over again.

Gramps...

 

[Samuel]

I don't agree that he'd be getting criticized during a rebuild no matter what he did... we have one of the worst teams and one of the highest payrolls.

I need someone to explain to me why that matters since we'll probably be trading Brogdon and/or Grant in the summer anyway. There are now a very limited number of wholly negative contracts in the league based on the new cba rules and the salary floor makes it more difficult for GMs to be able to absorb guys every summer like Presti did.

We don't have an extraordinary amount of draft capital in the next couple of drafts.

Not after 2024 they don't. I think the reason they held out on trading at the deadline was because they dont need any more 2024 picks and they want future picks further out. Teams will be able to trade further out starting in the summer. I'd rather have a protected 2025 or later pick than a 3rd first in this year's draft. I'd imagine this was part of that strategy—you might be on the same page with Joe here.

We only have one player of consequence above 6'9" on our roster. We are being ravaged by injuries. We have a first-time head coach that has one of the worst winning percentages in NBA history for guys who've coached 200+ games (I think he's 13th or so at the moment).

I don't disagree that Chuancey sucks, though I'm not sure the move is to fire him now (I wanted him gone after that road trip from hell, btw).

He is failing on almost every front

By all indications it looks like they're trying to build through the draft—so let's take a beat and evaluate him on that: they've got like 7 developmental players on the roster, 2 of which look like they'll be impact players at this stage of their development, and Camara/Walker look like serviceable guys who you could at worst flip if you don't want to keep around. It doesn't appear like they're misses. I think we'll get more information about Kris Murray and Rayan Rupert pretty soon, and I actually like Murray more than Camara because he has a more diverse set of skills. We'll see once he adds volume/usage.

I don't think we know that based on how he's falling on his face in almost every way as a GM so far.

I think you're being hyperbolic.

The last GM that had a positive approval rating IMO was canned 14 years ago. I don't think Cronin has been that good, but I don't think he's "falling on his face in almost every way as a GM"—his individual basketball moves have been largely defensible (I wasn't a fan of the Roco/Norm trade but I also get that they were about to throw money at Nurkic/Ant to keep Dame happy). If the glass is at 50%, this is a fanbase that sees it as half empty every time.

I get that people want the ship to turn around ASAP but I prefer the measured approach vs. the 'take it down to the studs' approach. I'm a sicko so I have watched more than my fill of Rockets, Thunder and Pistons basketball the last few seasons, and lord—those were some dire times.

I think the draft capital thing will look different this summer.

 

[Tince]

Since Joe's taken over we've had anything but stability with respect to our roster.

Previously we had largely the same core and a few changes around the outside to give the illusion of progress.

We have no such illusion now. Since the start of the 2022 season, the Blazers have had 46 players log minutes. Consider this with respect to new players:

• 2017 - 5 new players
  
• 2018 - 4 new players
  
• 2019 - 7 new players
  
• 2020 - 9 new players
  
• 2021 - 8 new players
• 2022 - 20 new players
• 2023 - 14 new players
• 2024 (so far) - 14 new players

Billups hasn't proven anything coaching-wise (other than his teams lose a lot) but then again, he is often playing with the equivalent of a pick-up roster. Hard to judge a guy when half his players are injured.

Its almost like he is coaching a "Replacements" team (without Keanu Reeves) vs. real teams. Yes, we lose a lot and sometimes get blown out but amazingly enough, we aren't the worst out there.

However, that being said, if the cycling through players continues for much longer, then the problem really does start pointing at the GM doing something wrong. You can only blame injuries for so long.

Of course, if some had their way, we'd trade anyone that's been here for more than two seasons or is above the legal drinking age and draft a bunch of new guys to start the cycle all over again.

Gramps...

How quickly we've gone from being disgruntled with the lack of roster changes and first round exits to the instability of the roster and return trips to the lottery.

 

[Samuel]

How quickly we've gone from being disgruntled with the lack of roster changes and first round exits to the instability of the roster and return trips to the lottery.

people were still cheering for more churn at the deadline. take a banton and a glass of water and call me in the summer.

 

[bemac]

I prefer to read the players, especially the veterans who have seen enough to know when something good is cooking. Players seem happy, wanting to stay, and playing hard. I'm pretty confident that a few disgruntled fans griping in a forum are not keeping him up at night. I've not been in the arena of running a sports organization, let alone doing it in a small market with state income tax, so I don't have much to say on specifics. Like many fans, I'm enjoying the season, can see the potential, and look forward to the development. It's a fantastic and entertaining escape from the daily grind.

 

[GrandpaBlaze]

How quickly we've gone from being disgruntled with the lack of roster changes and first round exits to the instability of the roster and return trips to the lottery.

All I'm trying to say is that, while I have doubts about Billups coaching abilities, I also see him constantly dealing with new people and lineups and it is difficult to establish a system when every month or so you drop a couple of players and pick up a couple new ones and the guys that have been around are injured so you have to play they new, inexperienced people.

To a degree, that helps me understand why at times, the Blazers look like they are playing pick-up ball - because, in essence, they are.

 

[Tince]

All I'm trying to say is that, while I have doubts about Billups coaching abilities, I also see him constantly dealing with new people and lineups and it is difficult to establish a system when every month or so you drop a couple of players and pick up a couple new ones and the guys that have been around are injured so you have to play they new, inexperienced people.

To a degree, that helps me understand why at times, the Blazers look like they are playing pick-up ball - because, in essence, they are.

I agee with you!

 

[GrandpaBlaze]

I agee with you!

No, probably more like I agree with you. A mediocre mind agreeing with a great mind.

 

[Tince]

No, probably more like I agree with you. A mediocre mind agreeing with a great mind.

One of us is great and it certainly isn't me!

 

[Whyachi]

Dallas traded a bag of potato chips for PJ Washington & Daniel Gafford. Both young players, both with frontline skillsets that could help Portland now & later.

The ever insightful Danny Marang told Cronin he shouldn't have to worry about roster decisions for 18 months, unless of course it's a tax dodging transaction.

The team is soooo happy. I guess we add Brogdon to the list of vets that get a fat Jody Allen bag, to sit games out and watch their team lose?

 

[GrandpaBlaze]

One of us is great and it certainly isn't me!

Agree to disagree.

 

[Tince]

Dallas traded a bag of potato chips for PJ Washington & Daniel Gafford. Both young players, both with frontline skillsets that could help Portland now & later.

The ever insightful Danny Marang told Cronin he shouldn't have to worry about roster decisions for 18 months, unless of course it's a tax dodging transaction.

The team is soooo happy. I guess we add Brogdon to the list of vets that get a fat Jody Allen bag, to sit games out and watch their team lose?

But the rebuild will be more fun than getting knocked out of the playoffs, they said.