What's a teacher make?

[maxiep]

I think they sell the bad assets at a loss and move on. Which is kinda like blowing it off in order to move on to a better investment, am I wrong?

You're wrong. First, an investor hands over their money and can't get their principal back for a specified period of time (2-10 years). Second, if you're underperforming, they're on you like white on rice. They have time and generally know other wealthy people (so word of mouth spreads quickly). If they decide to declare jihad on you and your fund, you're done. You'll never raise another fund again. I can't tell you how many times I've had to fly across the country so someone can ream me a new one and not allow me to explain my position. And if they can't get their money out early, they'll sue you.

The last thing I can do is blow someone off.

 

[andalusian]

I do not understand what the big fucking deal is - teachers work hard, they are allowed to complain about their jobs like the rest of us - they are going to get scrutinized by elected officials who "sign their checks" and by their "customers" - parents and kids - and at the end of the day, they know what they get in - the hard work, the lousy compensation, the crappy bureaucratic system - and they know what they get from it which is not reflect in their pay check - be it the summer vacations or the satisfaction or whatever. They get more security than most worker bees in the private section get - but they probably trade some of the monetary compensation for this safety. Life is always a set of choices - I have no problems with teachers complaints - some of them are right that they are under-appreciated, some of them are just bad. It's the nature of the game in every place.

The reality of the situation is that they make what the market is willing to pay them - they have the right to speak their mind like anyone else - and the option to get out of the profession if they do not like it.

I appreciate great teachers for what they do - just as I appreciate the other good professionals that cross my path and offer me services.

 

[chris_in_pdx]

The larger issue is the decline in opinions of teachers and the teaching profession as a whole. It used to be among the most respected of professions. However, after years of pouring more money into a system that hasn't produced improved results and watching the NEA and teachers unions put teachers and administrators over students time after time, the goodwill has been destroyed.

It's brand destruction bigger than Schlitz, which used to be considered the premium beer brand in the world.

Really? I see it more as a reflection of the state of parenting in this country, where kids have become annoyances and/or a "cramp in the style" of working parents (or parent, singular) and the teachers of the country have been expected to pick up the slack of raising these little entitled hellions, and when they fail because any and all methods of holding the kids accountable have been cut out from underneath them, suddenly it's all the teacher's faults. What, you can't make a diamond out of a pile of shit? What do we pay you for, anyway? Personally, I fail to see why anyone would want to become a teacher today. Mounds of mandates, paperwork, unappreciative students, parents, and management, shitty hours, low pay, and a public that's become poisoned against them because they can't fucking work miracles.

 

[maxiep]

Did you see me or the majority of teachers in the US? Just curious.

No, it's a minority. I think most teachers are earnest and effective. The problem is your unions and the NEA protects the worst among you. What's even worse is that those institutions do it at the expense of taxpayers and children. You shouldn't be surprised there's anger out there. Weed out the bad actors, put the kids first and perhaps your industry can rebuild its brand.

 

[Sug]

I do not understand what the big fucking deal is - teachers work hard, they are allowed to complain about their jobs like the rest of us - they are going to get scrutinized by elected officials who "sign their checks" and by their "customers" - parents and kids - and at the end of the day, they know what they get in - the hard work, the lousy compensation, the crappy bureaucratic system - and they know what they get from it which is not reflect in their pay check - be it the summer vacations or the satisfaction or whatever. They get more security than most worker bees in the private section get - but they probably trade some of the monetary compensation for this safety. Life is always a set of choices - I have no problems with teachers complaints - some of them are right that they are under-appreciated, some of them are just bad. It's the nature of the game in every place.

The reality of the situation is that they make what the market is willing to pay them - they have the right to speak their mind like anyone else - and the option to get out of the profession if they do not like it.

I appreciate great teachers for what they do - just as I appreciate the other good professionals that cross my path and offer me services.

Exactly

 

[blazerboy30]

Salaried employees in the private sector are putting in overtime to make someone money. If they do a good job they get rewarded appropriately. Teachers are putting in overtime to better their students. If they do a good job they get criticized for "whining about their job".

The above is just garbage and strawmen. Nothing more.

You wouldn't last a day in most classrooms

Irrelevant. Just as irrelevant as how 99.99% of teachers wouldn't last an hour trying to do my job.

 

[Sug]

No, it's a minority. I think most teachers are earnest and effective. The problem is your unions and the NEA protects the worst among you. What's even worse is that those institutions do it at the expense of taxpayers and children. You shouldn't be surprised there's anger out there. Weed out the bad actors, put the kids first and perhaps your industry can rebuild its brand.

95% of teachers put kids first IMO, the other 5% got into the profession because they thought it was easy.

 

[blazerboy30]

That is such bullshit, if I walked away from teaching today I could have five jobs paying twice as much in companies simply because I know people that are at high level positions. In teaching, you cannot do that. You have to have the credentials which take time and money to obtain. Out of college I could have had a 200k a year gig in LA because my friend wanted me to come work with him. You are being ignorant again. Getting a job in teaching is not easy, it is one of the most difficult professions to obtain a position in.

This is laughable. I encourage you to send your resume to my company and see how close you get to a job offer.

 

[chris_in_pdx]

This is laughable. I encourage you to send your resume to my company and see how close you get to a job offer.

He doesn't have to. One of the earlier arguments was in a public sector job, it's what you know. In a private sector job, it's WHO you know. So he doesn't give a shit about your company, since he apparently already has five companies where he has contacts and open job offers.

 

[Sug]

This is laughable. I encourage you to send your resume to my company and see how close you get to a job offer.

You do the same with a school district and let's see who gets the job first LMAO.

 

[maxiep]

I think that the fund investors aren't concerned whether a peon like you, a cog in the machine, has a job or not, or how much you get paid. They take out their anger at the CEOs making the billions. It's the CEO trickling that shitstorm downhill that you need to be concerned about, but as long as he's still making his billions, he could give a rip, either.

You're absolutely right. I'm only as good as my last investment. If I don't perform, it doesn't matter if I'm your best friend; I'm done. And it's not just anger directed at me while I try to do my job; my career is over.

Since you have no data, proof, or anything other than your personal biases that think that Teachers are overpaid and coddled, but you do have a vote and can call up your governmental representative and piss and whine about the glorified babysitters that you think should be fired, you are a little more dangerous to them than the "fund investors" are to you.

Please don't put words in my mouth; I can explain my position on my own just fine.

I actually think teachers are underpaid. I simply don't like tenure or defined pensions. What that video reminds me of is that Chris Rock routine about how he loves black people but hates ******s.

*****s always want credit for some shit they supposed to do. A ***** will brag about some shit a normal man just does. A ***** will say some shit like, "I take care of my kids." You're supposed to, you dumb motherfucker! What kind of ignorant shit is that? "I ain't never been to jail!" What do you want, a cookie?! You're not supposed to go to jail, you low-expectation-having motherfucker!

That video is the teacher equivalent of Chris Rock's ******.

 

[maxiep]

That is such bullshit, if I walked away from teaching today I could have five jobs paying twice as much in companies simply because I know people that are at high level positions. In teaching, you cannot do that. You have to have the credentials which take time and money to obtain. Out of college I could have had a 200k a year gig in LA because my friend wanted me to come work with him. You are being ignorant again. Getting a job in teaching is not easy, it is one of the most difficult professions to obtain a position in.

Congratulations on your awesomeness; I'm sure your students bow before you knowing that you're too good for them.

Your entire thought process gives away your biases. You're not focused on achievement, you're focused on credentials and the process. You're right that I would have a harder time getting a job at an elementary or secondary school than at a university. Does that relate to achievement or process? Of course it's the latter.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

This is laughable. I encourage you to send your resume to my company and see how close you get to a job offer.

"but I know blazerboy30!!!!!"

 

[chris_in_pdx]

Congratulations on your awesomeness; I'm sure your student bow before you knowing that you're too good for them.

Your entire thought process gives away your biases. You're not focused on achievement, you're focused on credentials and the process. You're right that I would have a harder time getting a job at an elementary or secondary school than at a university. Does that relate to achievement or process? Of course it's the latter.

Wow, in your world, teachers can't win, can they? Well, yes they can: if they work an efficient 8 hour day for non-competitive pay, shitty benefits, and the job security of a burger-flipper, churning out Rhodes Scholars from the inner city ghetto, and do it with a zen-like calm of the promise of an etherical reward that doesn't translate to real world perks but just to an inner satisfaction that they have helped society.

Oh, and doesn't bat an eye, Jesus-like, when a pissed off parent screams at them for expecting little Tiffany to actually learn something rather than letting her play with her iPhone all day long.

 

[andalusian]

Your entire thought process gives away your biases. You're not focused on achievement, you're focused on credentials and the process. You're right that I would have a harder time getting a job at an elementary or secondary school than at a university. Does that relate to achievement or process? Of course it's the latter.

I can see why you think that - but I am not sure I agree with the idea that teaching at a university is more of an achievement. The difference is that at university you basically teach adults that know how to behave - where in school you have to deal with kids and all that gets around it. From a purely professional / intellectual POV - you are right, it is more of an achievement to teach at university - the knowledge and technical know-how of the subject is higher and more refined - but since you can just concentrate on the technical know-how and do not need to deal with all the other stuff you need to do with kids and what is and is not appropriate. Also - there is more of a self-selection at university - if someone can not handle the material - it is his/her problem, not the instructors. This is not as easy at a school where teachers have to adjust to a more diverse selection of students - you can't just lift your hands and tell a kid "maybe you are too stupid for this class".

The process is there, I suspect, to get people the experience and knowledge to handle all these things that teaching kids require - which are not directly related to the actual act of passing a specific curriculum to them. I do not think it is as black and white as you try to paint it.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Wow, in your world, teachers can't win, can they? Well, yes they can: if they work an efficient 8 hour day for non-competitive pay, shitty benefits, and the job security of a burger-flipper, churning out Rhodes Scholars from the inner city ghetto, and do it with a zen-like calm of the promise of an etherical reward that doesn't translate to real world perks but just to an inner satisfaction that they have helped society.

Oh, and doesn't bat an eye, Jesus-like, when a pissed off parent screams at them for expecting little Tiffany to actually learn something rather than letting her play with her iPhone all day long.

non-competitive pay and shitty benefits? teachers get paid fairly well. When you factor they only work 8 months out of the year, its even more scaled to a full year.

 

[Sug]

non-competitive pay and shitty benefits? teachers get paid fairly well. When you factor they only work 8 months out of the year, its even more scaled to a full year.

8 months? LMAO

 

[chris_in_pdx]

non-competitive pay and shitty benefits? teachers get paid fairly well. When you factor they only work 8 months out of the year, its even more scaled to a full year.

Teachers who have worked in the job for over 10 years get paid fairly well, and deserve it. Entry level teachers make shit.

And the whole "9 (or 8?) months out of 12" crap has been laid to rest, except for the teacher haters.

 

[blazerboy30]

I still don't get what the whining is about.

Somebody explain to me why if you aren't happy with your job / compensation / benefits why you don't look for another job.

 

[porkchopexpress]

I would be down for higher teacher pay if they had performance based evaluation, no tenure, no job security and if they had to watch their backs like everyone else.


X

http://sportstwo.com/threads/178093-Work-Observations?highlight=lunch

OK...employees that work TOO hard...like they're super dedicated. In the real world do they actually move up that much? Seems to me that those that work hard and good actually harm their ability to advance in the workplace as they will remain a good low-paid "worker bee" for the managers/directors

I have found if you work extremely hard in spurts then fake it the rest of the time, people will assume you work hard all the time. Just get the stuff done quick, act hyper and agressive but then surf the net the rest of the day = success!

Apparently there are lazy workers in the private sector too. And they not only keep their jobs, but will get rewarded upon their evaluations. The hate on teachers here is insane. Yes, there are some bad teachers, but there are just as many, if not more, bad private sector workers.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Teachers who have worked in the job for over 10 years get paid fairly well, and deserve it. Entry level teachers make shit.
.

Just like most professions....

 

[blazerboy30]

Teachers who have worked in the job for over 10 years get paid fairly well, and deserve it.

What does that even mean?

I deserve a unicorn and rainbows, but I don't seem to be getting them.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

http://sportstwo.com/threads/178093-Work-Observations?highlight=lunch





Apparently there are lazy workers in the private sector too. And they not only keep their jobs, but will get rewarded upon their evaluations. The hate on teachers here is insane. Yes, there are some bad teachers, but there are just as many, if not more, bad private sector workers.

of course there are lazy private workers. some people are results based though. in the private sector you need to know how to network to get ahead and step on people if you need to.

 

[blazerboy30]

Apparently there are lazy workers in the private sector too. And they not only keep their jobs, but will get rewarded upon their evaluations. The hate on teachers here is insane. Yes, there are some bad teachers, but there are just as many, if not more, bad private sector workers.

And if the lazy, private sector workers whine about their job and compensation, they won't get any sympathy either. They'll be asked why they don't look for another job.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Teachers who have worked in the job for over 10 years get paid fairly well, and deserve it. Entry level teachers make shit.

And the whole "9 (or 8?) months out of 12" crap has been laid to rest, except for the teacher haters.

3 months summer vacation + christmas break + spring break. THEN they still get vacation and sick days.

 

[Sug]

Congratulations on your awesomeness; I'm sure your student bow before you knowing that you're too good for them.

Your entire thought process gives away your biases. You're not focused on achievement, you're focused on credentials and the process. You're right that I would have a harder time getting a job at an elementary or secondary school than at a university. Does that relate to achievement or process? Of course it's the latter.

First off Maxie nothing in what I said tells you anything about my character or approach to being an educator. Secondly, yes I am bias in that I feel the job I do has it's challenges and is a worthwhile profession. My comment on the process of becoming an educator is simply there to contrast the simplistic process of hiring that occurs all over the private sector. I also think becoming a successful teacher is an achievement, and one that I am proud of. Should I be ashamed of feeling successful? Should you? I am proud of the work that my students do, and I am proud of the effort and energy I put into my professional life. I care about my students understanding the content, and demonstrating their ability to do the work independently. I could give a shit about having a masters in teaching, or needing a certificate. It is a barrier to the process, but one that must be overcome if you truly want to teach. I love teaching, and nothing is going to stop that love of working with others to help them better understand the world around them.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

from earlier:


Average number of school days: *http://ask.yahoo.com/20050509.html

180 days. Lets assume 10 more days (2 weeks) for teacher's inservice, setting up before school year, etc (that is being generous) so 190 days total.


versus the number of work days.

260 days vacations =14 days holidays=10 days vacation.
260-14-10=236 so on average 236 days.


So...per year, a teacher making 60k per year would be equivalent of another working $74,500 per year if based on time actually "worked".

Furthermore, since they only "work" 6 hours per day, the "real" equivalent for work performed is about $100k per year.

 

[porkchopexpress]

I still don't get what the whining is about.

Somebody explain to me why if you aren't happy with your job / compensation / benefits why you don't look for another job.

They complain because people like you, El Pres and Maxiep constantly berate their profession. I'm sure it gets tiring hearing that you don't work hard or very much and get to live this cushy life style when the reality is, especially for young teachers, that they put in a ton of hours, work extremely hard and make shit. Oh, but they get better benefits than some. The horror! Better go strip the only financially positive aspect of the job away from them.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

46 days less...22 work days per month....so I guess its 2 months.

 

[porkchopexpress]

of course there are lazy private workers. some people are results based though. in the private sector you need to know how to network to get ahead and step on people if you need to.

Those were your words. YOU are the lazy worker. But as long as you fake like you're working hard, it ok. Again, your words.