Rumor What's going on in Portland? (3 Viewers)

[Orion Bailey]

Sure. As I just said, whatever you suggest has been tried forever, and the government won't budge. Fire away.

sure ill continue but you must first address my first statement. Why arent they not camped out in Salem on the capital steps vandalizing it until change happens?

To go after small business owners makes no sense to me and i see no way it will ever provide improvement.

 

[jlprk]

sure ill continue but you must first address my first statement. Why arent they not camped out in Salem on the capital steps vandalizing it until change happens? To go after small business owners makes no sense to me and i see no way it will ever provide improvement.

Because the government defends its own buildings more than those of small business. Duh. If you want to vandalize, you pick your targets for success. This is obvious.

Okay, now you can answer my question. You put no condition on your challenge to me, when you said, you want me(you) to continue? When I took you up on it, you made a condition.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Because the government defends its own buildings more than those of small business. Duh. If you want to vandalize, you pick your targets for success. This is obvious.

Okay, now you can answer my question. You put no condition on your challenge to me, when you said, you want me(you) to continue? When I took you up on it, you made a condition.

so when it gets tough bug out and go after innocents because its easier?

sorry not buying that. I believe that if the protestors did what they do every night but dod it on the capital steps it would have far more reaching positive energy and movement.


Now which question? How do we stop police killings?
Or when would i support vandalism against a government?

we will never stop police killings 100% just like we cant stop corrupt politicians 100%.
But i would definitely start with police training and recruitment reform. I would stop giving preference to military soldiers not fit for civil policing. i would have more officers required to police their own neighborhoods. Not only to get more familiar with their own community but to hopefully gain trust of the community that its one of their own who is policing the area.
many more things can and should be done, but that would be a start.
The second question, i would ask you to clarify. When would i support anti government methods to change things? Thats very vague and a totally loaded question.
Which anti government methods? change which things?
Its all relevant and situational.

 

[Chris Craig]

so when it gets tough bug out and go after innocents because its easier?

sorry not buying that. I believe that if the protestors did what they do every night but dod it on the capital steps it would have far more reaching positive energy and movement.


Now which question? How do we stop police killings?
Or when would i support vandalism against a government?

we will never stop police killings 100% just like we cant stop corrupt politicians 100%.
But i would definitely start with police training and recruitment reform. I would stop giving preference to military soldiers not fit for civil policing. i would have more officers required to police their own neighborhoods. Not only to get more familiar with their own community but to hopefully gain trust of the community that its one of their own who is policing the area.
many more things can and should be done, but that would be a start.
The second question, i would ask you to clarify. When would i support anti government methods to change things? Thats very vague and a totally loaded question.
Which anti government methods? change which things?
Its all relevant and situational.

Cops need to spend more time training in de-esculation and less time at shooting ranges.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Cops need to spend more time training in de-esculation and less time at shooting ranges.

absolutely. Another quality reform innitiative.

 

[Phatguysrule]

when they are outnumbered 100-1, you cant expect the cops’ cameras to catch everything, even if they are on...

seems like an excuse to accept vandalism to me.

The police don't have body cameras in Portland. They have refused them. Coincidence? There are not 100 acts of violence or property damage at all times. If a cop can see it well enough to warrant arresting somebody the odds are pretty good it would be on a body cam as well.

Do we want the problem solved or not?

 

[Phatguysrule]

absolutely. Another quality reform innitiative.

That's what the BLM protests were about... shifting funds from military grade weapons to de-escalation training and other less violent solutions...

 

[Chris Craig]

The police don't have body cameras in Portland. They have refused them. Coincidence? There are not 100 acts of violence or property damage at all times. If a cop can see it well enough to warrant arresting somebody the odds are pretty good it would be on a body cam as well.

Do we want the problem solved or not?

Should be required

 

[HailBlazers]

Hey look on the bright side hard drugs are legalized.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Many cases are not being prosecuted because there are informants and undercover officers in the crowd. To prosecute would mean to disclose this.

 

[RR7]

Hey look on the bright side hard drugs are legalized.

Derp derp

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Hey look on the bright side hard drugs are legalized.

Not true.

Decriminalized in certain instances.

 

[Chris Craig]

Hey look on the bright side hard drugs are legalized.

In small quantities

 

[Phatguysrule]

unless a fellow vandal is going to testify against his/her buddy, you are asking for near impossibilities. Cops must be on hand to witness and be them be evidence.
We can install cameras every five feet of every block downtown, but how muhc money will that cost and how much more when tye vandals tear them down?
The only way i can think of off hand is to drastically increase police presence on an already squeezed department.
How do you think that would go over, if done?


Let me ask you this, what would be your answer to stopping the vandalism, capturing and convicting the guilty?

You could pretty easily fly drones with cameras around the protests. Body cameras would be an excellent start. After all, if a cop isn't present to witness vandalism or violence how are they arresting people for it? But if there is any evidence I'm fine with them being prosecuted per the law.

But there has always been vandalism in Portland. Heck, a lot of it looks pretty cool and isn't vandalism as much as it is a plywood canvas. The big problem is the homeless making it a stinking mess. The solution is to solve homelessness.

This can not be done economically or humanely at the city, or really even the state level for most states.

 

[Orion Bailey]

The police don't have body cameras in Portland. They have refused them. Coincidence? There are not 100 acts of violence or property damage at all times. If a cop can see it well enough to warrant arresting somebody the odds are pretty good it would be on a body cam as well.

Do we want the problem solved or not?

Okay... lets try to be rational here.
There are hundreds of protestors. A couple dozen cops. A few vandals intermixed in the protestors.
Do you think the cops have a realistic chance of catching the bulk of the vandals on camera or in the act?

Of course i want the problem solved. And I think that starts with being accurate of our depictions of events when vandalism occurs, where the officers are at the time, and the fact that most of the vandalism happens while on the move.
Cops are not going to be there during the act. What percent of crimes occur while in the presence of an officer?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I think a huge mistake in policing these crowds was the decision by PPD to eliminate the mounted horse patrols.

Those horses were surprisingly great in crowd control situations.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Okay... lets try to be rational here.
There are hundreds of protestors. A couple dozen cops. A few vandals intermixed in the protestors.
Do you think the cops have a realistic chance of catching the bulk of the vandals on camera or in the act?

Of course i want the problem solved. And I think that starts with being accurate of our depictions of events when vandalism occurs, where the officers are at the time, and the fact that most of the vandalism happens while on the move.
Cops are not going to be there during the act. What percent of crimes occur while in the presence of an officer?

If there is no evidence then it should go unpunished. Far better than having innocent people on the streets getting arrested and charged without evidence.

The solution is to make changes to curb the problem people are protesting about. Or, in general, quit having so many miserable people. There are too many people in the US working far too hard while making too little money.

It's not a good situation. And this is the result.

 

[HailBlazers]

I think a huge mistake in policing these crowds was the decision by PPD to eliminate the mounted horse patrols.

Those horses were surprisingly great in crowd control situations.

Yeah. was sad when they sent them to glue factory.

 

[Orion Bailey]

You could pretty easily fly drones with cameras around the protests. Body cameras would be an excellent start. After all, if a cop isn't present to witness vandalism or violence how are they arresting people for it? But if there is any evidence I'm fine with them being prosecuted per the law.

But there has always been vandalism in Portland. Heck, a lot of it looks pretty cool and isn't vandalism as much as it is a plywood canvas. The big problem is the homeless making it a stinking mess. The solution is to solve homelessness.

This can not be done economically or humanely at the city, or really even the state level for most states.

im not following you. Are you implying that the bulk of the vandalism over the last year has been graffiti art and is no different than it has always been?

because i thought we were talking about broken windows and trashed stores fronts? And who gives the vandals the right to choose how an owners storefront should look?

Again. This all sounds like an excuse for accepting vandalism. Sorry.

 

[Orion Bailey]

If there is no evidence then it should go unpunished. Far better than having innocent people on the streets getting arrested and charged without evidence.

The solution is to make changes to curb the problem people are protesting about. Or, in general, quick having so many miserable people. There are too many people in the US working far to hard while making too little money.

It's not a good situation. And this is the result.

Thats an economic situation. Not a police excessive force issue.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

im not following you. Are you implying that the bulk of the vandalism over the last year has been graffiti art and is no different than it has always been?

because i thought we were talking about broken windows and trashed stores fronts? And who gives the vandals the right to choose how an owners storefront should look?

Again. This all sounds like an excuse for accepting vandalism. Sorry.

Blazers won.

I'm going to go vandalize my stomach tomorrow with some free chicken McNuggies.

 

[HailBlazers]

If there is no evidence then it should go unpunished. Far better than having innocent people on the streets getting arrested and charged without evidence.

The solution is to make changes to curb the problem people are protesting about. Or, in general, quick having so many miserable people. There are too many people in the US working far to hard while making too little money.

It's not a good situation. And this is the result.

I dont think protestors are vandalizing much. I think vandals are vandalizing much. In the cover of darkness. I never feel unsafe cuz im used to it but Portland is like mad max. Even my buddy from Seattle remarked how different things were here.

 

[Orion Bailey]

You could pretty easily fly drones with cameras around the protests. Body cameras would be an excellent start. After all, if a cop isn't present to witness vandalism or violence how are they arresting people for it? But if there is any evidence I'm fine with them being prosecuted per the law.

But there has always been vandalism in Portland. Heck, a lot of it looks pretty cool and isn't vandalism as much as it is a plywood canvas. The big problem is the homeless making it a stinking mess. The solution is to solve homelessness.

This can not be done economically or humanely at the city, or really even the state level for most states.

So you are okay with big brother tossing its eyes everywhere?

i thought the issue was corruption, but the answer is to give them big brother visuals and then trust that the footage they put out is accurate?

 

[Phatguysrule]

im not following you. Are you implying that the bulk of the vandalism over the last year has been graffiti art and is no different than it has always been?

because i thought we were talking about broken windows and trashed stores fronts? And who gives the vandals the right to choose how an owners storefront should look?

Again. This all sounds like an excuse for accepting vandalism. Sorry.

It's not an excuse. But vandalism in Portland has always happened and gone unpunished. It's nothing new. If we want to solve the increased amount of vandalism we'll need to make people unmiserable enough that they don't want to protest.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Blazers won.

I'm going to go vandalize my stomach tomorrow with some free chicken McNuggies.

Thats not vandalism, thats attempted suicide. Could you use a friend right now?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

So you are okay with big brother tossing its eyes everywhere?

i thought the issue was corruption, but the answer is to give them big brother visuals and then trust that the footage they put out is accurate?

If the video is easily accessible by the general public it is only a public safety tool. It's when only the police have access to it or requires an attorney to help a citizen get copies of footage is when you get corruption.

 

[Phatguysrule]

So you are okay with big brother tossing its eyes everywhere?

i thought the issue was corruption, but the answer is to give them big brother visuals and then trust that the footage they put out is accurate?

I'm fine with police having cameras when the data is controlled by a third party. Isn't that better than just taking the word of the police? It's far more difficult to doctor a video than tell a lie.

 

[Orion Bailey]

It's not an excuse. But vandalism in Portland has always happened and gone unpunished. It's nothing new. If we want to solve the increased amount of vandalism we'll need to make people unmiserable enough that they don't want to protest.

well it seems now you are shifting the cause of the vandalism from cop killing minorities to economic divisions?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

https://www.earthcam.com/usa/nevada/lasvegas/index.php?cam=catsmeow_lv_fremont

 

[Phatguysrule]

Thats an economic situation. Not a police excessive force issue.

The police are going to be dealing with this until we solve the economic problems. The less stability people have the worse this will get. And at no point will I support police arresting or harrassing people without evidence.