OT White People

[jonnyboy]

links?
Ill read up.
But really. Im trying to educate myself and your gonna put me down for it?



i mean really now....

this is a quick way to get people to not care.
Ridicule people for not kNowing. Ridicule people for wanting to know...

ridicule ridicule ridicule.....
And then people wonder how can people be against the democratic party...

well... stop the “better than thou” stance and help people educate themselves....

They have no right to be shaming you or anybody else - and they can’t educate you because that would require skills and facts they don’t actually possess. It’s just a nose in the air act of trying to be authoritative. Their candidate was no better and had a worse history of racism, documented through quotes, actions and voting history. They will never admit that though. Don’t let them shit on you they have no room to talk. When their entire basis of Trumps racism sits on a foundation of misquotes and things taken way out of context it means they didn’t have much to work with in the first place. Trump was hiring minorities while the Ku Klux Clintons were overseeing massive cocaine shipments through Arkansas to support a crack epidemic that was decimating the black community. Fuck any Hillary voter with the nerve to talk shit on ANYONES voting choices. Seriously.

 

[Hoopguru]

@Orion Bailey - Do you REALLY not know that he came down the escalator at Trump Tower to launch his campaign and talked about borders and Mexicans being rapists? I mean, that is common knowledge. But if you don't know that, then you don't, but in that case, I shouldn't have "ridiculed" you, but you should have been WAY more educated before voting.

I wouldn't vote for Trump in a million years but I heard his comments about rapist. It was "some are rapist" which unfortunately ended up being true.

 

[andalusian]

I wouldn't vote for Trump in a million years but I heard his comments about rapist. It was "some are rapist" which unfortunately ended up being true.

Some are rapists is unfortunately true for every ethnic group. By singling out Mexicans - Trump showed his racist flag.

 

[riverman]

Ku Klux Clintons were overseeing massive cocaine shipments through Arkansas to support a crack epidemic that was decimating the black community

This is some real nose in the air authoritarian spin with no basis in proof other than fear mongering and hiding of Trump's racist past and present....as dictated by Bolton, Mary Trump, Michael Cohen and Amarossa....there are more.....all who voted for Trump and all who called him a racist......and I voted for Gary Johnson last time but nothing says fake blind spin like Ku Klux Clintons....sheesh...Mr Shithole countries fooled somebody I guess.......

 

[Hoopguru]

Some are rapists is unfortunately true for every ethnic group. By singling out Mexicans - Trump showed his racist flag.

agree....I just don't think he was saying all Mexicans are racist.

 

[RR7]

When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best,” he said in the same speech. “They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”

It wasn't some are rapists, quite the opposite. Its that some, presumably, are good people.

 

[Minstrel]

agree....I just don't think he was saying all Mexicans are racist.

Yeah, no one was saying that he was. He insinuates that some aren't by saying that some "probably" are good people. But andalusian nailed the point perfectly.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Is Trump racist?

 

[ehizzy3]

It was a known fact Trump was racist before the election and was a HUGE talking point

But but but what about the Benghazi scandal LMFAO

 

[RR7]

It was a known fact Trump was racist before the election and was a HUGE talking point

But but but what about the Benghazi scandal LMFAO

EMAILS!!!

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

So a thread @dviss1 started, about police abusing people turns into a political slinging contest because these parties both SUCK, and no ones actually talking about police reform, or really police at all.
I think this discussion proves the point, these parties aren't about fixing this crap they're about power, cause it always goes back to pointing political fingers for white people issues rather than working on reforming the system's so that everyone gets a shot at real justice.

 

[riverman]

So a thread @dviss1 started, about police abusing people turns into a political slinging contest because these parties both SUCK, and no ones actually talking about police reform, or really police at all.
I think this discussion proves the point, these parties aren't about fixing this crap they're about power, cause it always goes back to pointing political fingers for white people issues rather than working on reforming the system's so that everyone gets a shot at real justice.

I'd say you're sort of ignoring the dialogue about white leadership being racist which is connected to systemic racism and police abuse of power.....white people need to address racism and it's position in our current system if they're going to change it and some think an election year is condusive to doing just that.....if you see a racist and you don't like it....there's nothing wrong with pointing a finger at it no matter what your political affiliation is....dviss first post says white people fix this shit.....then when white people talk about this shit it doesn't mean they're ignorant of why it needs to be talked about....I'm trying to see where your post addresses the issue but it seems to be addressing posters in the thread and more concerned with that than the OP

 

[riverman]

So a thread @dviss1 started, about police abusing people turns into a political slinging contest because these parties both SUCK, and no ones actually talking about police reform, or really police at all.
I think this discussion proves the point, these parties aren't about fixing this crap they're about power, cause it always goes back to pointing political fingers for white people issues rather than working on reforming the system's so that everyone gets a shot at real justice.

I would recommend everyone here watch the oversight committee's grilling of Barr yesterday...it opens eyes if you have any doubts at this point.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I'd say you're sort of ignoring the dialogue about white leadership being racist which is connected to systemic racism and police abuse of power.....white people need to address racism and it's position in our current system if they're going to change it and some think an election year is condusive to doing just that.....if you see a racist and you don't like it....there's nothing wrong with pointing a finger at it no matter what your political affiliation is.....

It's classic white people crap. Black guy says we need police reform and justice. White people go your side's racist, no your side's more racist. Which person with a racist history is going to the president to screw minorities some more! Black Lives Matter is saying let's talk about police reform and justice for Black people, but we always make it about which political party is going to be in power and make justice partisan, and you can pretend like one of the political parties is better than the other, but the fact is both sides have a crappy history in this country when it comes to law enforcement and minorities. Too busy using them for votes rather than doing anything for them.
MalcolmX was right.

 

[e_blazer]

It's classic white people crap. Black guy says we need police reform and justice. White people go your side's racist, no your side's more racist. Which person with a racist history is going to the president to screw minorities some more! Black Lives Matter is saying let's talk about police reform and justice for Black people, but we always make it about which political party is going to be in power and make justice partisan, and you can pretend like one of the political parties is better than the other, but the fact is both sides have a crappy history in this country when it comes to law enforcement and minorities. Too busy using them for votes rather than doing anything for them.
MalcolmX was right.

So, at what point does BLM stop letting Ted Wheeler divert attention with whole anti-Trump stuff (which now seems to be getting resolved by the Governor), and start holding his feet to the fire to start formal discussions about what changes need to be made with PPB? Protesting is one thing. Getting stuff done is another.

 

[riverman]

It's classic white people crap. Black guy says we need police reform and justice. White people go your side's racist, no your side's more racist. Which person with a racist history is going to the president to screw minorities some more! Black Lives Matter is saying let's talk about police reform and justice for Black people, but we always make it about which political party is going to be in power and make justice partisan, and you can pretend like one of the political parties is better than the other, but the fact is both sides have a crappy history in this country when it comes to law enforcement and minorities. Too busy using them for votes rather than doing anything for them.
MalcolmX was right.

The issue is that Malcom X was killed for being right...and it starts here...with this election and hopefully black women obtaining political appointments in the next administration....millions of protesters across the world are not playing right or left ping pong...they are crossing lines to address equality and unfair racial profiling...it's an important chapter in our history no matter how burned out one might seem from partisan bickering

 

[riverman]

It's classic white people crap. Black guy says we need police reform and justice. White people go your side's racist, no your side's more racist. Which person with a racist history is going to the president to screw minorities some more! Black Lives Matter is saying let's talk about police reform and justice for Black people, but we always make it about which political party is going to be in power and make justice partisan, and you can pretend like one of the political parties is better than the other, but the fact is both sides have a crappy history in this country when it comes to law enforcement and minorities. Too busy using them for votes rather than doing anything for them.
MalcolmX was right.

I'm going to make one thing really clear here.....overwhelmingly racists vote republican in America....overwhelmingly white supremacists vote republican in America....yeah...sucks but it's not a question which party has that subcultures loyalty

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I'm going to make one thing really clear here.....overwhelmingly racists vote republican in America....overwhelmingly white supremacists vote republican in America....yeah...sucks but it's not an question which party has that subcultures loyalty

The vocal racists are republicans. The subvert ones are democrats. MalcolmX told the truth.
So the police and justice system needs fixed.

Here's my ideas.
1. Training
more intense training and longer 'boot camps' of training Training to include de-escalation training. Non-lethal ways to arrest someone. Should require a minimum of one-year training before being put onto the streets. Every year an officer should be required to go through a month of retraining.
Police with only high school education, are required an extra year of training and education, and off fieldwork before being put on the street.
2. Mental Health)
Every 6 months a police officer must go through a psychiatric exam. Police see the worst in humanity almost every day, everyone, their peers, citizens, etc need to know that their mental health is being checked upon. If they don't pass the exam then they need to have a time off period, where they don't do field duty work, they go through counseling for 6 months. When they retake the exam a pass means they can assume full duties. A fail means they are mentally unfit for the job, now they should have some sort of package for them that continues to help them with mental health, and helping them to find other jobs. The last thing we want is a mentally deranged ex-cop who has lost everything shoved out onto the world with no fall back and a gun.
3. Accountability.)
All complaints against a police officer must be reviewed by a third party overseen on a national level. police should not investigate their own friends. DA’s also must go through audits every 6 months. All investigation and audit findings need to be public knowledge. My chicken scratch way to handle this is that every officer and DA receives an accountability score of some sort. Minor things would give lower amount of points. Major things if found true would be an automatic termination, with no severance pay. If the minor things added up to enough points that would result in automatic termination.
4. Community) police representatives must be required to have monthly meetings with their community, they should have the hard discussions, and community concerns need to have tangible plans and results to community concerns. Body cams need to be on all the times.
5. Demilitarization)
"Brotherhood" isn't a bad thing, in the sense that people seeing what police see need to have a bond with who they're working with, but their needs to be less of this we protect our brothers when they do bad things attitude from the police.
They should not basically be a government gang. You fight this by having requirements for body cam's. If an officer is caught to be falsifying information of another cop, even on minor things it's a minimum 1-year prison term, no parole. - Police are at a higher standard than citizens.
6. Pay) This is a demanding Job it should be paid as one to incentivize people to do it.
7. Bodycam footage should be reviewed daily by state agencies and made public with no edits (unless there are EXTREME) circumstances.

All that may end up in bigger police budgets I don't know, but I think that's a better system than what we have.

 

[Propagandist]

It's beginning to look more like anarchy. MLK was a great leader. Who's leading the charge today?

I understand, that as a hardwired follower, it is difficult for you to understand a movement without a Jesus or a Trump, but at the moment that's what is happening. You aren't proving any point by saying the lacking the leader thing over and over. I mean the country has a leader and how are we doing...?

And fuck off with mixing your creepy religious pro-life stance with politics. What kind of sheep is willing to accept Trump and his incredibly irreligious and sacrilegious behavior and not feel like a hypocritical sinner?

What do you think of this notion @ABM: I think pro-lifers are lazy frauds. If children's lives meant anything to you, I believe you would fix the foster system. You would work tirelessly to create an inviting option for women that find themselves carrying an unwanted child and maybe refrain from shaming and stigmatizing them, and I don't know, respect them for a change. Because otherwise it's just a hyphenated word that says: "I'm a no solution kinda person that doesn't mind if the child's life sucks just as long as they are alive and with someone who didn't want to have them in the first place."

Your stance is too simple, too black and white. If you believe the scriptures and it matters to you, change things with positivity. Not by restrictive laws like some dictatorial fuck, not by voting in fascist and fuckasses, but through actual kindness and understand.

Or don't, and keep repeating yourself indefinitely like you have been....

 

[riverman]

The vocal racists are republicans. The subvert ones are democrats. MalcolmX told the truth.
So the police and justice system needs fixed.

Here's my ideas.
1. Training
more intense training and longer 'boot camps' of training Training to include de-escalation training. Non-lethal ways to arrest someone. Should require a minimum of one-year training before being put onto the streets. Every year an officer should be required to go through a month of retraining.
Police with only high school education, are required an extra year of training and education, and off fieldwork before being put on the street.
2. Mental Health)
Every 6 months a police officer must go through a psychiatric exam. Police see the worst in humanity almost every day, everyone, their peers, citizens, etc need to know that their mental health is being checked upon. If they don't pass the exam then they need to have a time off period, where they don't do field duty work, they go through counseling for 6 months. When they retake the exam a pass means they can assume full duties. A fail means they are mentally unfit for the job, now they should have some sort of package for them that continues to help them with mental health, and helping them to find other jobs. The last thing we want is a mentally deranged ex-cop who has lost everything shoved out onto the world with no fall back and a gun.
3. Accountability.)
All complaints against a police officer must be reviewed by a third party overseen on a national level. police should not investigate their own friends. DA’s also must go through audits every 6 months. All investigation and audit findings need to be public knowledge. My chicken scratch way to handle this is that every officer and DA receives an accountability score of some sort. Minor things would give lower amount of points. Major things if found true would be an automatic termination, with no severance pay. If the minor things added up to enough points that would result in automatic termination.
4. Community) police representatives must be required to have monthly meetings with their community, they should have the hard discussions, and community concerns need to have tangible plans and results to community concerns. Body cams need to be on all the times.
5. Demilitarization)
"Brotherhood" isn't a bad thing, in the sense that people seeing what police see need to have a bond with who they're working with, but their needs to be less of this we protect our brothers when they do bad things attitude from the police.
They should not basically be a government gang. You fight this by having requirements for body cam's. If an officer is caught to be falsifying information of another cop, even on minor things it's a minimum 1-year prison term, no parole. - Police are at a higher standard than citizens.
6. Pay) This is a demanding Job it should be paid as one to incentivize people to do it.
7. Bodycam footage should be reviewed daily by state agencies and made public with no edits (unless there are EXTREME) circumstances.

All that may end up in bigger police budgets I don't know, but I think that's a better system than what we have.

Bernie Sanders mentioned that peace keeping officers should specialize in what they are trained to respond to.....mental illness cases need people trained to deal with the mentally ill...linguists need to be available for second language citizens or residents....and this is where defunding the swat teams and diversifying the divisions to deal with social problems need be addressed...community peace keeping needs local funding, not harrassment and armed responders for every issue that gets called in...and the police would be better served with officers that fit the demographics of their beat more than they do now.....there is a lot of work to do...some of your points are good ones....my local sheriff dept meets at the library weekly to hear from locals about complaints they have....they know all the homeless by first name and they will drive a drunk home instead of sending him to jail if he's not bothering anyone....we're lucky that way around here....very little harrassment around Lane County..noone should be allowed to be a police officer just because they can shoot a gun or overpower someone

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I understand, that as a hardwired follower, it is difficult for you to understand a movement without a Jesus or a Trump, but at the moment that's what is happening. You aren't proving any point by saying the lacking the leader thing over and over. I mean the country has a leader and how are we doing...?

And fuck off with mixing your creepy religious pro-life stance with politics. What kind of sheep is willing to accept Trump and his incredibly irreligious and sacrilegious behavior and not feel like a hypocritical sinner?

What do you think of this notion @ABM: I think pro-lifers are lazy frauds. If children's lives meant anything to you, I believe you would fix the foster system. You would work tirelessly to create an inviting option for women that find themselves carrying an unwanted child and maybe refrain from shaming and stigmatizing them, and I don't know, respect them for a change. Because otherwise it's just a hyphenated word that says: "I'm a no solution kinda person that doesn't mind if the child's life sucks just as long as they are alive and with someone who didn't want to have them in the first place."

Your stance is too simple, too black and white. If you believe the scriptures and it matters to you, change things with positivity. Not by restrictive laws like some dictatorial fuck, not by voting in fascist and fuckasses, but through actual kindness and understand.

Or don't, and keep repeating yourself indefinitely like you have been....

I think pro-life and pro-choice are both just semantics in a lot of ways and if we take the words "pro choice" and "pro life" to their literal meanings then there is a lot of hypocrisy by people who say they are for or against them. Really it's just, "pro-abortion", "anti-abortion". Trying to nail down one side because they say they are, "pro-life" but are for the death-penalty isn't a fair interpretation of what someone means when they say they are pro-life. Just as someone saying they are "Pro choice", but are for "mandatory face masks" isn't a fair interpretation of what someone saying they are "pro choice" is trying to convey. It's the issue with using 'slogans', and 'political word games', to speak of their position's on specific issues.

One of the things that I think is somewhat of a logical fallacy is that if "people cared" they'd work tirelessly on all these issues. It's the same narrative that, "NBA Players don't care about China's atrocities because they are talking about BLM", well they can care about those things, but also care more and have better resources to help issues in Black communities than they can in Hong Kong. So saying how can you say you're "pro-life" but not be working tirelessly on foster kids, people have resources that are finite, both in time and money some people do work really hard to place kids with good families.

I'm not defending anyone's position on this at all, just pointing out that I think there are logical flaws in some of the arguments you presented. Not that my logic is always spot on, I make mistakes too. It's obvious though that when someone says their "pro-life" that is really just saying they are anti-abortion, it doesn't mean that every other issue is defined by that phrase. Just like someone saying they are pro-choice, is saying they are for abortion. It doesn't mean they believe that people should have a choice in everything they do. Do you think everyone should be required to vaccinate? Do you think everyone should wear masks? Do you think everyone should be forced to go to school? Most people would say people should be required to do certain things to be part of the society at large, that doesn't negate that they are pro-choice in terms of abortion though.

 

[riverman]

Do you think everyone should wear masks?

Yes...because pregnancy is not a pandemic that can threaten or even spread throughout the community .....it's a relationship between a mother and a fertilized egg....not a mother and the general population...I'd say that's an unfair comparison..also I'll say women need to make these decisions and men need to respect them and allow them to control their own bodies and choices concerning their bodies...but they have a short window with which to do that.....late term pregnancies should not be treated like the morning after pill...as it stands those checks and balances exist concerning abortion

 

[SlyPokerDog]

So a thread @dviss1 started, about police abusing people turns into a political slinging contest because these parties both SUCK, and no ones actually talking about police reform, or really police at all.
I think this discussion proves the point, these parties aren't about fixing this crap they're about power, cause it always goes back to pointing political fingers for white people issues rather than working on reforming the system's so that everyone gets a shot at real justice.

I have posted a lot about criminal justice reform in multiple threads. I even invited you to have the same discussion about the BLM website that invited ABM to have. I figured you were busy and that's why you didn't respond.


Anyway, the thread is open, if you would like to reboot the conversation then I think a lot of people would welcome it.

 

[Minstrel]

Really it's just, "pro-abortion", "anti-abortion".

It isn't actually that simple, though. There are a lot of people (largely Democrats) who oppose abortion personally but believe in a woman's right to choose. In other words, they would never have an abortion and they would never counsel anyone to have an abortion because they are personally opposed to it but they don't feel that they should enforce their beliefs on others. These people can in no way be called "pro-abortion."

And calling even people who would consider abortion "pro-abortion" is fairly insulting, like they're all for killing fetuses--pro-choice people call themselves pro "choice" because they realize that sometimes people end up in shitty situations and have to make difficult decisions and they should have a choice in that circumstance. Acting like because someone understands why a 15 year old in a poor family might not consider that a good situation to have a child, that person is gung-ho about abortions doesn't make sense. I doubt there's really much of anyone who's "pro-abortion." A lot of people are pro-"Life creates a lot of very difficult choices around pregnancy and the government shouldn't make those choices."

Or, "pro-choice" for short.

 

[crandc]

Jonnyboy posts a fact free screed saying against all evidence Trump is not a racist. Then claims with no evidence the Clintons are personally responsible for crack epidemic and somehow associated with Ku Klux Klan, which supports Trump. And ABM gives a like.

To paraphrase West Side Story, when you're with Trump you're with Trump all the way. No nonsense about not really liking him but want to be able to force yourself on women. With Trump, accept lying and racism, incompetence and corruption, out of control pandemic, recession, bounties on American soldiers, everything.

It's possible to critically support other candidates, most of us do. We vote for person with whom we are most aligned although we might disagree on some issues. But Trump is god emperor. No disagreement, no questioning, everything he does is perfect. Own it, Trumpers. Again to paraphrase West Side Story, everything he is, you are too.

 

[Propagandist]

I think pro-life and pro-choice are both just semantics in a lot of ways and if we take the words "pro choice" and "pro life" to their literal meanings then there is a lot of hypocrisy by people who say they are for or against them. Really it's just, "pro-abortion", "anti-abortion". Trying to nail down one side because they say they are, "pro-life" but are for the death-penalty isn't a fair interpretation of what someone means when they say they are pro-life. Just as someone saying they are "Pro choice", but are for "mandatory face masks" isn't a fair interpretation of what someone saying they are "pro choice" is trying to convey. It's the issue with using 'slogans', and 'political word games', to speak of their position's on specific issues.

One of the things that I think is somewhat of a logical fallacy is that if "people cared" they'd work tirelessly on all these issues. It's the same narrative that, "NBA Players don't care about China's atrocities because they are talking about BLM", well they can care about those things, but also care more and have better resources to help issues in Black communities than they can in Hong Kong. So saying how can you say you're "pro-life" but not be working tirelessly on foster kids, people have resources that are finite, both in time and money some people do work really hard to place kids with good families.

I'm not defending anyone's position on this at all, just pointing out that I think there are logical flaws in some of the arguments you presented. Not that my logic is always spot on, I make mistakes too. It's obvious though that when someone says their "pro-life" that is really just saying they are anti-abortion, it doesn't mean that every other issue is defined by that phrase. Just like someone saying they are pro-choice, is saying they are for abortion. It doesn't mean they believe that people should have a choice in everything they do. Do you think everyone should be required to vaccinate? Do you think everyone should wear masks? Do you think everyone should be forced to go to school? Most people would say people should be required to do certain things to be part of the society at large, that doesn't negate that they are pro-choice in terms of abortion though.

I don't agree with the comparisons. I think they are unfair.

But you got me thinking. If I my logic is flawed, it's because I tend to assume the best about people. I am assuming that pro-life means that they care about not only the child's life but also the child's WELL BEING. But perhaps the well being of the child doesn't matter. The politics of pro-choice voters certainly suggest it doesn't matter...

 

[SlyPokerDog]

When I'm named king I going to do the following to end the pro-life/pro-choice debates.

1. No more abortions. Instead all fetuses of women no longer wanting to be pregnant will be removed and frozen for later implantation in women who want a child but are unable to conceive.

2. Fund science to implant frozen fetuses.

3. Increase federal deductions on adopted children or fetus implantations to twice that of a regular child as a way to encourage adoptions and fetus implantations.

4. Free birth control to everyone who wants it.

 

[riverman]

When I'm named king I going to do the following to end the pro-life/pro-choice debates.

1. No more abortions. Instead all fetuses of women no longer wanting to be pregnant will be removed and frozen for later implantation in women who want a child but are unable to conceive.

2. Fund science to implant frozen fetuses.

3. Increase federal deductions on adopted children or fetus implantations to twice that of a regular child as a way to encourage adoptions and fetus implantations.

4. Free birth control to everyone who wants it.

DrSlypokerMoreau!

 

[ABM]

I understand, that as a hardwired follower, it is difficult for you to understand a movement without a Jesus or a Trump, but at the moment that's what is happening. You aren't proving any point by saying the lacking the leader thing over and over. I mean the country has a leader and how are we doing...?

And fuck off with mixing your creepy religious pro-life stance with politics. What kind of sheep is willing to accept Trump and his incredibly irreligious and sacrilegious behavior and not feel like a hypocritical sinner?

What do you think of this notion @ABM: I think pro-lifers are lazy frauds. If children's lives meant anything to you, I believe you would fix the foster system. You would work tirelessly to create an inviting option for women that find themselves carrying an unwanted child and maybe refrain from shaming and stigmatizing them, and I don't know, respect them for a change. Because otherwise it's just a hyphenated word that says: "I'm a no solution kinda person that doesn't mind if the child's life sucks just as long as they are alive and with someone who didn't want to have them in the first place."

Your stance is too simple, too black and white. If you believe the scriptures and it matters to you, change things with positivity. Not by restrictive laws like some dictatorial fuck, not by voting in fascist and fuckasses, but through actual kindness and understand.

Or don't, and keep repeating yourself indefinitely like you have been....

Harsh words. As @Minstrel sometimes bemoans, we'll just have to agree to disagree. And that's not a cop-out. Trust me.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I don't agree with the comparisons. I think they are unfair.

But you got me thinking. If I my logic is flawed, it's because I tend to assume the best about people. I am assuming that pro-life means that they care about not only the child's life but also the child's WELL BEING. But perhaps the well being of the child doesn't matter. The politics of pro-choice voters certainly suggest it doesn't matter...

Im not intending to make a comparison, Im attemping to show that pro-choice and pro-life are essentially buzzwords about a specific subject, not an all encompassing world-view.