Who do you want at #11?

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May 28th - Stocks are becoming clearer

Pick #11:
1a) Kasparas Jakucionis
1b) Hugo Gonzalez


Darkhorse:
• Jase Richardson
 
Fez Hammersticks said:
May 28th - Stocks are becoming clearer

Pick #11:
1a) Kasparas Jakucionis
1b) Hugo Gonzalez


Darkhorse:
• Jase Richardson
Click to expand...

Teams will pass on Jase because of his size, but he sure would be fun to have coming off our bench.
And since at 11, anyone we pick will probably be coming off our bench....why not? He is 3/4 of an inch shorter than Scoot, but a much better shooter.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Teams will pass on Jase because of his size, but he sure would be fun to have coming off our bench.
And since at 11, anyone we pick will probably be coming off our bench....why not? He is 3/4 of an inch shorter than Scoot, but a much better shooter.
Click to expand...

His reach is 8’3” as well - for comparison,
CJ’s is 8’0.5”

He’s super underrated
 
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Coward if Cons not there. McNeeley if we trade down. One of the better shooters in the draft some have compared him to Bogdonivich.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Teams will pass on Jase because of his size, but he sure would be fun to have coming off our bench.
And since at 11, anyone we pick will probably be coming off our bench....why not? He is 3/4 of an inch shorter than Scoot, but a much better shooter.
Click to expand...
Scoot is said to be 6'2.5" barefoot, so Jase is 2" shorter. Scoot also has +20lbs on him, a massive wingspan, tremendous athleticism & is just an overall beast. His size/speed allows him to switch onto wings on D much better then most PGs. If you like Jase fine, but there is no comparison of these two physically.

And shooting? We shall see how Jase does at the NBA 3 point line, but at the FT line Scoot is at 79% Jase 84%

STOMP
 
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Mediocre Man said:
Fleming will climb. I want him. If they keep the pick, of course
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Back at #11 is sort of an odd position as who am I choosing between and do I go today fit or upside? Fleming seems a sure rotation guy at least after Ayton is moved & would fit with this roster about as well as anyone realistically could between Deni and Donovan size wise. No he's likely never to be their guy in a marketing campaign or to lead them in any major statistical category, but he's a 4/5 that can switch on D, defend the rim and spread opponent's D with a legit 3 ball threat. I'm also liking options of Coward, Essengue, Bryant, Jakucionis & reserve the right to completely change my mind as I've just started this process.

What would help this discussion is if there was consensus on who is available at #11 as the mocks are wildly divergent. May I suggest going forward, Flagg, Harper, VJ , Ace, Tre, Fears & Kon (lock to the Jazz) are off the board?

STOMP
 
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Fez Hammersticks said:
His reach is 8’3” as well - for comparison,
CJ’s is 8’0.5”

He’s super underrated
Click to expand...
Tankathon's stat system has Richardson the highest rated lead guard in the draft, Demin and Jakucionis rated quite low. Their system not perfect but had very high ratings on Halliburton and SGA, neither of who were drafted very high.
 
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STOMP said:
Scoot is said to be 6'2.5" barefoot, so Jase is 2" shorter. Scoot also has +20lbs on him, a massive wingspan, tremendous athleticism & is just an overall beast. His size/speed allows him to switch onto wings on D much better then most PGs. If you like Jase fine, but there is no comparison of these two physically.

And shooting? We shall see how Jase does at the NBA 3 point line, but at the FT line Scoot is at 79% Jase 84%

STOMP
Click to expand...

Yes, I am fully aware that Scoot is bigger. Like I said, anyone they draft will more than likely come off the bench, so you don't need to convince me Scoot is better. I am just saying, if they did draft him, I wouldn't hate it because we will need a backup point guard and Jase
has a lot of talent, as was on full display against our Ducks in February when he went for 29. At the same time, there are others that I would prefer over him at 11.
 
May 29th:

Pick #11:
1a) Kasparas Jakucionis
1b) Jase Richardson

Darkhorse:
• Hugo Gonzalez

^^^^ Jase working out in Portland today :smiley-smiley-049:
 
When was the last time we drafted a player who never worked out for us? Scoot?
 
STOMP said:
Back at #11 is sort of an odd position as who am I choosing between and do I go today fit or upside? Fleming seems a sure rotation guy at least after Ayton is moved & would fit with this roster about as well as anyone realistically could between Deni and Donovan size wise. No he's likely never to be their guy in a marketing campaign or to lead them in any major statistical category, but he's a 4/5 that can switch on D, defend the rim and spread opponent's D with a legit 3 ball threat. I'm also liking options of Coward, Essengue, Bryant, Jakucionis & reserve the right to completely change my mind as I've just started this process.

What would help this discussion is if there was consensus on who is available at #11 as the mocks are wildly divergent. May I suggest going forward, Flagg, Harper, VJ , Ace, Tre, Fears & Kon (lock to the Jazz) are off the board?

STOMP
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A fundamentally good question. Who will be off the board when the Blazers pick at 11? Someone falls a bit or even out of the lottery who was getting serious, widespread hype. Someone jumps up a lot … a team falls in love. But the “first 3” and “the next 3” look pretty good. You have named 7 draftees who “should” be gone by 11.

Maluach is the 7’ plus center in the lottery — safe guess. All the other centers or PF or PF/C usual suspects are less than 6’10”. New Orleans (7) and Toronto (9) are weak at center. Houston (10) could use a big beside Sengun — Queen, CMB, Sorber, Fleming, Newell.
Jakucionis isn’t uber athletic or with amazing handles or … but he looks like a starter who plays on and off the ball at PG. Excellent passer.
Bryant had limited time on court, but his D and physical profile and play coming on late …
[Total guess but these are my next 3 prior to Portland.]

Demin with height, vision, passing makes him an outlier at PG. Playmaker.
Essengue is this year’s Salaun/Cody Williams for looking special if he develops physically and skills and … in a couple, few years.
Along with the less-than-6’10 bigs above, there are 3 other dudes who are known for an NBA skill/ability:
Traore as a quick PG with height who plays both ends. McNeeley has positional size and is known for his stroke and skills. Coward has SG/SF size, length, shooting, rebounds, connective, fills a stat table, “want to” … at WSU. That’s 8 plus the 5 bigs at PF or PF/C.

After about the first 7 you mentioned — Three more of the above are gone (at 8-10). Out of about 10 guys (a guesstimation), the question for me is, “Who does Schmitz like?”

At 11, it’s Demin or Coward. IMHO.

[Demin is my favorite … but I see some dog in Coward like the skill-adding Wesley Matthews … a taller, longer Norman Powell … truly, some Mikal Bridges … and with my record, that means Demin isn’t picked — it’s Cedric Coward.]
 
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UPSIDE PICK: Nolan Traore, Cedric Coward (bit old for an upside pick, but people are throwing "late bloomer" around), Carter Bryant, Derik Queen, Hugo Gonzalez
IMMEDIATE CONTRIBUTOR: Nique Clifford, Jase Richardson, Collin Murray-Boyles, Thomas Sorber, Rasheer Fleming

Richardson is honestly a bit of both, given that he's relatively young. (And having really pushed Jared McCain last year, I feel like if I'm consistent I should push him too.) And Bryant could also contribute, although he does seem to duplicate a type we have a surfeit of.

I have a feeling that Clifford may turn out to be this draft's Desmond Bane, though. He certainly passes the eye test, whatever that's worth.

Current top four, in no particular order
Clifford, CMB, Traore, Richardson (you talked me into it Fez). Of those I'd be most nervous about Traore, but I believe he has the highest ceiling.
 
HoopsFanAZ said:
At 11, it’s Demin or Coward. IMHO.

[Demin is my favorite … but I see some dog in Coward like the skill-adding Wesley Matthews … a taller, longer Norman Powell … truly, some Mikal Bridges … and with my record, that means Demin isn’t picked — it’s Cedric Coward.]
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I love what I'm seeing with Coward & he may end up being my choice, but Demin seems a ways away from contributing. Of course they're very different ages with Coward being closer to a 3&D finished product, but with Demin I've real questions about his physical ability to not be targeted on D and his handle seems too weak at this point to lead an attack. That relegates him to a secondary playmaker where he'll need to hit 3s at a decent rate, which wasn't the case in college. I see him seasons away from being a regular in a rotation if he ever does. His combine run/jump numbers reflected the underwhelming athleticism I saw on tape. As someone who believes in him, please tell me how I've got it wrong and what you see... thanks!

STOMP
 
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Mike really likes Demin. Check out this quote.


“Demin shined as one of the top long-term prospects we saw abroad,” Schmitz says, noting that the guard “has ideal size for a modern playmaker and the type of focus, intensity and poise you look for in an international prospect.” He adds: “Demin was constantly talking defensively and directing traffic offensively, showcasing a feel for the game and maturity you rarely see from a player his age outside of young phenoms like [Luka] Doncic.”



 
STOMP said:
I love what I'm seeing with Coward & he may end up being my choice, but Demin seems a ways away from contributing. Of course they're very different ages with Coward being closer to a 3&D finished product, but with Demin I've real questions about his physical ability to not be targeted on D and his handle seems too weak at this point to lead an attack. That relegates him to a secondary playmaker where he'll need to hit 3s at a decent rate, which wasn't the case in college. I see him seasons away from being a regular in a rotation if he ever does. His combine run/jump numbers reflected the underwhelming athleticism I saw on tape. As someone who believes in him, please tell me how I've got it wrong and what you see... thanks!

STOMP
Click to expand...

You’re not wrong. And that’s not a back-handed compliment at all. Demin is a risk.
IMHO … he has 3 fixable issues:

1. His strength. His frame at 6’8.25 with decent wingspan is okay and he’s already put on good weight (recently) to about 200 pounds. He does get pressured, and he doesn’t get downhill on his own enough. He needs some core strength and muscle to work from the center and in the paint. His strength needs 2 years and 20 pounds … but he’s young, so I’m not overly concerned.

2. His handles and dribbling upright. Add in his less strength and here comes the pressure and double teams. His handles need tightening, control … but think of it this way. At his height (and with his vision and size and passing skills), his handles are actually okay — not as a primary ball handler in traffic but as a secondary initiator, point-forward? Initiator from the elbow right away. I like.

So his handles and strength are related as problems. 2 years. And with Scoot as the starter, Demin has time. His D is helped by his size and switching will happen. Strength and experience have me seeing him down the line as an “okay” NBA defender since his size helps. He’s court smart. I’ve read and heard some knowledgeable people talking about him being less aggressive to the hoop. I’m not particularly concerned about that for now as it wasn’t his role, and he has some limitations, currently.

3. Shooting — It ain’t broke. He finishes and dunks (for now) with both hands on a runway and with angles. Handles and strength would help. He’s just over 50% inside the arc. Over half of his shots are from 3, and for college he’s got some volume at 4.7 attempts per game. He has confidence. Now, I won’t deep dive on his shot chart, closely contested, off the bounce … I’ll leave that to the more knowledgeable on this board.

STRENGTHS
Size, vision, playmaker passer — at a very high level (at his age) and “can’t be taught.” His combination of these 3 makes him my favorite.

[Based on what I’ve seen over the decades and styles in the NBA, he’s about maximum height as a PG to deal with tough defenders with serious pressure. Barefoot, 6’3 to 6’6 is about the range I prefer.]
 
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Sheldon Shape said:
Mike really likes Demin. Check out this quote.


“Demin shined as one of the top long-term prospects we saw abroad,” Schmitz says, noting that the guard “has ideal size for a modern playmaker and the type of focus, intensity and poise you look for in an international prospect.” He adds: “Demin was constantly talking defensively and directing traffic offensively, showcasing a feel for the game and maturity you rarely see from a player his age outside of young phenoms like [Luka] Doncic.”



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Id still take Coward if he's there at 11?
 
Hoopguru said:
Id still take Coward if he's there at 11?
Click to expand...

I like Coward.
I like Carter Bryant.

Both have some unknowns because of court time for Bryant and level of competition plus half a dozen games for WSU with the labrum surgery for Coward. Their D and catch and shoot 3’s I believe in. Getting their own shot less so. Team play, “want to” and work ethic look strong.

At 11, I won’t be disappointed in either one.

Since I like Payton Pritchard so much … and Jalen Brunson is a self-made stud who has been grinding for years at ½ an inch taller than Jase … and 2 of my 3 favorite PGs were not big (Steve Nash and John Stockton with the 3rd, and favorite, is Jason Kidd) … is Jase not only worth it at 11 but is he a dude?

I would appreciate being convinced by a believer.
 
HoopsFanAZ said:
You’re not wrong. And that’s not a back-handed compliment at all. Demin is a risk.
IMHO … he has 3 fixable issues:

1. His strength. His frame at 6’8.25 with decent wingspan is okay and he’s already put on good weight (recently) to about 200 pounds. He does get pressured, and he doesn’t get downhill on his own enough. He needs some core strength and muscle to work from the center and in the paint. His strength needs 2 years and 20 pounds … but he’s young, so I’m not overly concerned.

2. His handles and dribbling upright. Add in his less strength and here comes the pressure and double teams. His handles need tightening, control … but think of it this way. At his height (and with his vision and size and passing skills), his handles are actually okay — not as a primary ball handler in traffic but as a secondary initiator, point-forward? Initiator from the elbow right away. I like.

So his handles and strength are related as problems. 2 years. And with Scoot as the starter, Demin has time. His D is helped by his size and switching will happen. Strength and experience have me seeing him down the line as an “okay” NBA defender since his size helps. He’s court smart. I’ve read and heard some knowledgeable people talking about him being less aggressive to the hoop. I’m not particularly concerned about that for now as it wasn’t his role, and he has some limitations, currently.

3. Shooting — It ain’t broke. He finishes and dunks (for now) with both hands on a runway and with angles. Handles and strength would help. He’s just over 50% inside the arc. Over half of his shots are from 3, and for college he’s got some volume at 4.7 attempts per game. He has confidence. Now, I won’t deep dive on his shot chart, closely contested, off the bounce … I’ll leave that to the more knowledgeable on this board.

STRENGTHS
Size, vision, playmaker passer — at a very high level (at his age) and “can’t be taught.” His combination of these 3 makes him my favorite.

[Based on what I’ve seen over the decades and styles in the NBA, he’s about maximum height as a PG to deal with tough defenders with serious pressure. Barefoot, 6’3 to 6’6 is about the range I prefer.]
Click to expand...
I won't be disappointed at all if they choose Demin. What that will mean is that they believe in his upside and that in time he'll overcome the obvious weaknesses that we've both noted. They're certainly in a better position to judge how he's trending (especially physically) then we are.

STOMP
 
CBS Sports:

“Jase Richardson has a wide draft range because of an underwhelming height measurement at the NBA Draft Combine but it wouldn't surprise if he still snuck into the lottery. He plays bigger than his measurements with a silky scoring game and long reach on the defensive end to impact winning at a high level.”

6’6” WS - and a near 8’3” reach
 
Fez Hammersticks said:
CBS Sports:

“Jase Richardson has a wide draft range because of an underwhelming height measurement at the NBA Draft Combine but it wouldn't surprise if he still snuck into the lottery. He plays bigger than his measurements with a silky scoring game and long reach on the defensive end to impact winning at a high level.”

6’6” WS - and a near 8’3” reach
Click to expand...

no...more...tiny...SG's...a decade of failure is enough
 
Why give up a great pick for a guy like KD who is anti-chemistry? The guy is graphite; inert.
 
wizenheimer said:
no...more...tiny...SG's...a decade of failure is enough
Click to expand...
Jase compares favorably to these guys...
https://tankathon.com/players/compa...ey--collin-sexton--cameron-payne--cj-mccollum

Tiny SG have a role in the NBA and can be very valuable. The issue is when you try to expand their role beyond what is warranted or try to make them a big minute starter (ie -> CJ and Ant).

I really like Jase as a prospect. If you pick him up at #16 with the intent for him being a scorer off the bench -> that is great value.
 
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