Science Your trans friend(s)

[BlazerCaravan]

would be a shame for our youth if that was the future but at this rate I wouldn't doubt if we all actually lived in bubbles that protected us from any sort of reality in the future

Well for our youth it's the present; the ability to get access to hormones earlier means the testosterone poisoning I got as a teen that gave me all this body and facial hair I have to manage, this deep voice, etc., isn't happening to teens these days (except of course when their families disown them and they become homeless or what have you).

So the percentages of trans people who are invisibly trans, who pass perfectly as their expressed gender, is going up and soon that will be the norm and hulking lady gorillas like me will be the exception.

 

[Denny Crane]

barfarella

menstral

 

[tlongII]

I have no idea. I have never asked anyone if they are transgender and no one has told me they are transgender. That doesn't mean there aren't any that are my friends though.

 

[crandc]

Just like a lot of people said they never knew anyone gay ... until they learned they did.

I once met a man who said he'd never met an atheist. I shook his hand, said Hi, my name is [crandc], pleased to meet you.

 

[Denny Crane]

I've known a few, and in my experience they're perfectly capable of doing anything that anyone else can. In general. I mean not everyone is an artist or good at computers, etc.

I never found them to be somehow less human or humane, worthy of pity or disgust. That's just ignoring who the person is and what they have to offer.

If you love the constitution, consider that everyone has the right to pursue happiness. Let them pursue their happiness. Judge people on what they say and do and if they can do the job. You'll be better off for it.

 

[Cippy91]

Well for our youth it's the present; the ability to get access to hormones earlier means the testosterone poisoning I got as a teen that gave me all this body and facial hair I have to manage, this deep voice, etc., isn't happening to teens these days (except of course when their families disown them and they become homeless or what have you).

So the percentages of trans people who are invisibly trans, who pass perfectly as their expressed gender, is going up and soon that will be the norm and hulking lady gorillas like me will be the exception.

Giving hormones to kids is a horrible thing to do when they are that young and the brain is developing. It's criminal really.

 

[Stevenson]

We have a good family friend who is fairly famous and is trans. Bob Tur practically invented eye-in-the-sky news. That's his OJ slow Bronco chase footage you know - filmed from his helicopter - and he also shot Reginald Denny's beating in the L.A. riots. Bob is now Zoey. Here's a piece in Los Angeles magazine about her and her transition. Really interesting.

Irony of ironies - Bob's biggest competitor back in the day was another jetcopter news reporter. He is a woman now too!

 

[MarAzul]

testosterone poisoning

 

[MarAzul]

I've known a few, and in my experience they're perfectly capable of doing anything that anyone else can. In general. I mean not everyone is an artist or good at computers, etc.

I never found them to be somehow less human or humane, worthy of pity or disgust. That's just ignoring who the person is and what they have to offer.

If you love the constitution, consider that everyone has the right to pursue happiness. Let them pursue their happiness. Judge people on what they say and do and if they can do the job. You'll be better off for it.

Seems about right Denny. But I wonder how you knew? I would imagine I worked with some along the way, but I don't know it.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Giving hormones to kids is a horrible thing to do when they are that young and the brain is developing. It's criminal really.

I agree; I never consented to all the testosterone I received as a teen. That's why I'm all for blocking all puberty-causing hormones for kids who think they might be trans before they hit puberty, then waiting until they're 18 to start the actual hormones of their choice (this is the standard of care, btw)

 

[MarAzul]

I agree; I never consented to all the testosterone I received as a teen. That's why I'm all for blocking all puberty-causing hormones for kids who think they might be trans before they hit puberty, then waiting until they're 18 to start the actual hormones of their choice (this is the standard of care, btw)

What do you mean, "blocking all puberty causing hormones"?

 

[barfo]

Seems about right Denny. But I wonder how you knew? I would imagine I worked with some along the way, but I don't know it.

Sometimes people tell you things, if they think you aren't an asshole.

barfo

 

[BlazerCaravan]

What do you mean, "blocking all puberty causing hormones"?

There are pills you can take coloquially called "puberty blockers" or "puberty delayers". Basically, you take them, and they prevent all that testosterone or estrogen from flooding into your system in puberty; it just doesn't happen until you stop taking them. You get older, but you don't go through puberty. Doctors will prescribe these for trans kids (mostly trans women) who want more time to decide how they want to express their gender, and to get to a point where they can properly consent to permanent physical changes to their body.

Since the body is going to do its number on you at ages 13-18, by the time you're legally able to consent, you've already had permanent changes done to your body (lower voice, body hair, wider shoulders, taller, etc.) by the hormones. The blockers help even the playing field so that you can consent first, and make the informed decision as a legal adult.

 

[Denny Crane]

Seems about right Denny. But I wonder how you knew? I would imagine I worked with some along the way, but I don't know it.

I don't have any problem telling who's trans and who's not.

Big hands and an adam's apple are giveaways.

Again, it doesn't bother me in the least.

What I wrote in BC's coming out thread is only common sense. The person is the same person you knew and loved yesterday before you knew about them being gay or wanting a sex change or whatever. They're the same person tomorrow, too. This new knowledge about the person doesn't change who they are.

Society has put real hardship on these people for far too long. That they suffer verbal and physical attacks is more than sufficient evidence of this hardship. I don't see the value in continuing the stigma or making things any tougher on these folks who just want to pursue happiness.

This last bit is my only concern for LGBT in the military. You've got absolute morons with guns and people they hate for no good reason, to potentially shoot at or inappropriately haze.

I see some merit in (some of) the military's argument. Boot camp/basic training/whatever involves a large element of brainwashing. The drill sergeant and various regulations are designed to build a bond among the recruits, that they'd throw themselves on a grenade to save the rest. The techniques are brutal and not politically correct (nor should they be). The military shouldn't have to change this for some social agenda reason.

 

[MarAzul]

Sometimes people tell you things, if they think you aren't an asshole.

barfo

Very good barf. And I want to know all I need to know.

I remember a fella I transferred in on a good recommendation and I thought all was going well. But one day, one of my lead guys came and told me the newby was not getting it done.
So I called him in for a little talk. He soon got to the point of telling me things, I suppose he forgot to check to see if I was an asshole.
Anyway, he offered up an excuse for not getting his work done;

It seems, his girl friend was his wifes best friend and it was causing him some anxiety. Sleepless it seems.
I cut it short at that point and call the guys manager. We put him on the measured mile, but he didn't take the opportunity to straighten shit up. Fired him about 6 weeks later.

 

[MarAzul]

I don't have any problem telling who's trans and who's not.

Big hands and an adam's apple are giveaways.

Again, it doesn't bother me in the least.

What I wrote in BC's coming out thread is only common sense. The person is the same person you knew and loved yesterday before you knew about them being gay or wanting a sex change or whatever. They're the same person tomorrow, too. This new knowledge about the person doesn't change who they are.

Society has put real hardship on these people for far too long. That they suffer verbal and physical attacks is more than sufficient evidence of this hardship. I don't see the value in continuing the stigma or making things any tougher on these folks who just want to pursue happiness.

This last bit is my only concern for LGBT in the military. You've got absolute morons with guns and people they hate for no good reason, to potentially shoot at or inappropriately haze.

I see some merit in (some of) the military's argument. Boot camp/basic training/whatever involves a large element of brainwashing. The drill sergeant and various regulations are designed to build a bond among the recruits, that they'd throw themselves on a grenade to save the rest. The techniques are brutal and not politically correct (nor should they be). The military shouldn't have to change this for some social agenda reason.

Thank you for sharing Denny. I support your position in every way.

 

[MarAzul]

Btw. My response above to barf has nothing to do with this thread. It just gave me a chuckle to share it with him.

 

[MarAzul]

mostly trans women

uh, how the heck do you know you are a "trans women" when you are still a child that has not went through puberty yet? Quite possibly, never heard the term.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

uh, how the heck do you know you are a "trans women" when you are still a child that has not went through puberty yet? Quite possibly, never heard the term.

A lot of trans people know as early as age 4 what their gender is. Imagine a sandwich... (if you read that post, it explains the difference in "shape" between your gender and the way society makes you express your gender if they think its different). Folks like me who don't put it together until later are the exception, not the rule.

 

[MarAzul]

A lot of trans people know as early as age 4 what their gender is. Imagine a sandwich... (if you read that post, it explains the difference in "shape" between your gender and the way society makes you express your gender if they think its different). Folks like me who don't put it together until later are the exception, not the rule.

So who makes the decision?

Someone disagreed here? Platypus maybe?

 

[BlazerCaravan]

So who makes the decision?

Someone disagreed here? Platypus maybe?

Which decision?

 

[MarAzul]

Which decision?

Well you basically are recommending the person be neutered through their growth period. Someone needs to make that decision. Who?
I can't see many fathers doing that to their son. Probably no Grandfathers supporting them.
How does this happen?

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Well you basically are recommending the person be neutered through their growth period. Someone needs to make that decision. Who?
I can't see many father doing that to their son. Probably no Grandfathers supporting them.
How does this happen?

The parents, the child, the endocrinologist, the pediatrician, and the child's therapist make the decision together, based on the child's desire and need to express a gender (and importantly not express the gender opposite their identified gender).

You're right, not every parent is accepting of this. When there's no acceptance, the children have a suicide attempt rate of about 45%. When there is acceptance, the suicide attempt rate is pretty much normal. I bet that, if the parents talk with their child's pediatrician, this statistic is noted, so it's ultimately up to the parents which they would rather deal with.

It's important to note that, if the child stops taking the blockers, they start puberty as normal with no ill effects.

 

[MarAzul]

The parents, the child, the endocrinologist, the pediatrician, and the child's therapist make the decision together, based on the child's desire and need to express a gender (and importantly not express the gender opposite their identified gender).

You're right, not every parent is accepting of this. When there's no acceptance, the children have a suicide attempt rate of about 45%. When there is acceptance, the suicide attempt rate is pretty much normal. I bet that, if the parents talk with their child's pediatrician, this statistic is noted, so it's ultimately up to the parents which they would rather deal with.

It's important to note that, if the child stops taking the blockers, they start puberty as normal with no ill effects.

Thank you.

A final thought. I can't see starting puberty at 18 with no ill effects.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Thank you.

A final thought. I can't see starting puberty at 18 with no ill effects.

Some folks do naturally; I knew a kid in HS who was 5'3" his senior year, but at the 5 year reunion was 6'1". 18 isn't bad to start puberty.

 

[MarAzul]

Some folks do naturally; I knew a kid in HS who was 5'3" his senior year, but at the 5 year reunion was 6'1". 18 isn't bad to start puberty.

Right. glad you gave it some thought.

 

[Cippy91]

A lot of trans people know as early as age 4 what their gender is. Imagine a sandwich... (if you read that post, it explains the difference in "shape" between your gender and the way society makes you express your gender if they think its different). Folks like me who don't put it together until later are the exception, not the rule.

I don't even remember anything from when I was 4 yet you are saying kids up to 4 years old just know what they wanna be? I don't care if anybody wants to act as if they are a man or woman, whatever but people aren't understanding in todays world just how important brain development is in a child. People jump the gun all the time on these things. "our child can't sit still, must have ADD". No, your kid is just being a kid. Fuck it though just give him/her ritalin.

 

[MarAzul]

just give him/her ritalin.

Hold that ritalin Cippy.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

Some folks do naturally; I knew a kid in HS who was 5'3" his senior year, but at the 5 year reunion was 6'1". 18 isn't bad to start puberty.

Where I have trouble with this is the use of an obvious extreme. How do you reconcile your opinion when so many young men are playing sport at a high level or even turning pro at 18?

 

[BlazerCaravan]

I don't even remember anything from when I was 4 yet you are saying kids up to 4 years old just know what they wanna be?

They know what they are. Big difference.

https://www.healthychildren.org/Eng...dentity-and-Gender-Confusion-In-Children.aspx

The thing is, nobody is saying "Johnny said he was a girl once when he was four so we're railroading her into being a girl forever!" This is a thing that is expressed by the child consistently and constantly, not just once.