Exclusive Zach Collins - An In-Depth Discussion

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I think Zach is ok, but the Blazers need a forward who can help run the offense. Since this started with the Draymond comparison defensively, offensively while Zach's a better shooter and has better footwork in the post. He really needs to be a better ball handler and passer. I think what Draymond really does for GS is allows their guards to play off the ball where they cant be keyed in on as much. If they want to start Zach then that's fine to me, but the other forward's gotta be someone who can create/run the offense. I don't think Hood, Ariza, or Melo is that either. So it's not so much Zach in a vacuum as it's the forwards in general for the Blazers need someone they can trust with the ball. I think @hoopsjock mentioned, Zach needs to work on his handle, and his hands in general, I'd agree there.

Also, you guys have definitely gotten better over the last 5-6 months.
 
My first reaction to "Zach Collins" is...overrated.
Has never really shown the consistent ability (1 game?) to do.......anything.
Not a fan.
 
I like Zach a lot, but it would be a risky plan, given his injuries, to pencil him in for starters minutes next season. I'd feel better going into next season with an established veteran player at the 4, and Zach backing up the 4 and 5.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
I think Zach is ok, but the Blazers need a forward who can help run the offense. Since this started with the Draymond comparison defensively, offensively while Zach's a better shooter and has better footwork in the post. He really needs to be a better ball handler and passer. I think what Draymond really does for GS is allows their guards to play off the ball where they cant be keyed in on as much. If they want to start Zach then that's fine to me, but the other forward's gotta be someone who can create/run the offense. I don't think Hood, Ariza, or Melo is that either. So it's not so much Zach in a vacuum as it's the forwards in general for the Blazers need someone they can trust with the ball. I think @hoopsjock mentioned, Zach needs to work on his handle, and his hands in general, I'd agree there.

Also, you guys have definitely gotten better over the last 5-6 months.
Click to expand...

This is why I'd be extremely happy if we'd somehow would be able to sign Harry Giles. He fits the mold. Then again, with our luck in the injury department...
 
Wade Garrett said:
My first reaction to "Zach Collins" is...overrated.
Has never really shown the consistent ability (1 game?) to do.......anything.
Not a fan.
Click to expand...

You can be disappointed in his production so far, but "never shown the consistent ability to do......anything" is just hogwash. He showed (18-19) that as the 5th option on the team, he puts up decent #s. People seem to think that because a player in another system puts up good #s, it means they will in Portland.

let's take, for example, the other Collins. He got the 2nd most touches (before he missed games) on his current team. Same with the year before that and it's highly unlikely JC would be averaging 14-15 shots per game in Portland. In Portland, they have CJ, Dame, Nurk/Whiteside and Anthony. It's doubtful JC would be putting up those #'s based on the pecking order.

Not saying that ZC would be putting up the same #'s, but people tend to forget roles.
 
julius said:
You can be disappointed in his production so far, but "never shown the consistent ability to do......anything" is just hogwash. He showed (18-19) that as the 5th option on the team, he puts up decent #s. People seem to think that because a player in another system puts up good #s, it means they will in Portland.

let's take, for example, the other Collins. He got the 2nd most touches (before he missed games) on his current team. Same with the year before that and it's highly unlikely JC would be averaging 14-15 shots per game in Portland. In Portland, they have CJ, Dame, Nurk/Whiteside and Anthony. It's doubtful JC would be putting up those #'s based on the pecking order.

Not saying that ZC would be putting up the same #'s, but people tend to forget roles.
Click to expand...
You're right.
He has shown the consistent ability to foul.
So, there's that.
 
GriLtCheeZ said:
I like Zach a lot, but it would be a risky plan, given his injuries, to pencil him in for starters minutes next season. I'd feel better going into next season with an established veteran player at the 4, and Zach backing up the 4 and 5.
Click to expand...

Yeah thats what I tend to think, we need another rotational PF, someone who can start if needed.

Zach had injury history but Nurk as well. We need another big who can start if one of them is out half the season.

If we get an awesome PF even better, then Zach can be the C backup and a few minutes at PF if he deserves such. Maybe Zach could succeed some as a starter next year, but he certainly isn't entitled to any sort of such role.
 
julius said:
that he has. But what about the other aspect I addressed?
Click to expand...
Lost interest after reading "5th option.."
That is at best, all he will be, based on what I have seen for what seems a Meyers Leonard-like eternity.
Plus, you elude to a "JC" and I'm not sure who that even is.
So, my apologies for not addressing.
 
Wade Garrett said:
Lost interest after reading "5th option.."
That is at best, all he will be, based on what I have seen for what seems a Meyers Leonard-like eternity.
Plus, you elude to a "JC" and I'm not sure who that even is.
So, my apologies for not addressing.
Click to expand...

John Collins.

My point is that people are upset that the 5th player on the offensive chart isn't producing the same as someone who would be the 2nd or 1st on their team. And thinking those #'s would translate to Portland too.
 
julius said:
John Collins.

My point is that people are upset that the 5th player on the offensive chart isn't producing the same as someone who would be the 2nd or 1st on their team. And thinking those #'s would translate to Portland too.
Click to expand...
I see.
Well, I have never thought to compare Zach with anyone.
I'd just like to see him make an IMPACT PLAY......Just once....
Block a last second shot......Get an offensive rebound, DUNK it and get fouled, then actually convert the free throw....Make a crunchtime 3....
Do something...Anything....
Your 5pts and 5rebs and 5 fouls make me sick.
Sorry man, I rooted for Meyers Leonard for 8+ seasons....
I aint doin' that again.
 
julius said:
You can be disappointed in his production so far, but "never shown the consistent ability to do......anything" is just hogwash. He showed (18-19) that as the 5th option on the team, he puts up decent #s. People seem to think that because a player in another system puts up good #s, it means they will in Portland.

let's take, for example, the other Collins. He got the 2nd most touches (before he missed games) on his current team. Same with the year before that and it's highly unlikely JC would be averaging 14-15 shots per game in Portland. In Portland, they have CJ, Dame, Nurk/Whiteside and Anthony. It's doubtful JC would be putting up those #'s based on the pecking order.

Not saying that ZC would be putting up the same #'s, but people tend to forget roles.
Click to expand...

wut? why not?

Melo averaged 13.5 shots and he had a crappy TS% of .525. It's weird to suggest JC couldn't get one more FGA a game than Melo when JC has a TS% of .659. If Blazers had JC that very likely wouldn't have Melo

as far as Collins vs Collins, so far:

FG%: Zach .444....John .571
2ptFG%: Zach .504....John .615
3ptFG%: Zach .324....John .369 (JC shot 40.1% this season)
FT%: Zach .722....John .757
eFG%: Zach .498....John .604

PER: Zach 10.8....John 21.0
TS%: Zach .528....John .634
FT rate: Zach .232....John .304
OffReb%: Zach 7.2%....John 11.0%
DefReb%: Zach 17.1%....John 22.9%
TotReb%: Zach .444....John .571
Assist rate: Zach 7.1%....John 9.3%
Turnover rate: Zach 15.2%....John 11.8%
Steal rate: Zach 0.9%....John 1.0%
Block Rate: Zach 3.1%....John 3.2%
Winshares: Zach 3.9....John 16.4
Winshares/48: Zach .069....John .158
Box +/-: Zach -2.6....John +1.1
Value Over Replacement: Zach -0.4....John +3.9

all those categories and Zach didn't win a single one; not one. John even had a higher block rate than Zach. Isn't that supposed to be one of Zach's strengths?

yeah, John Collins has had more opportunity, but almost all of those categories have nothing to do with volume or usage. Besides that, JC posted those numbers playing against opposing starting units, While Zach spent a lot of time on the floor against 2nd units. And that JC has had that kind of opportunity against starters and has still posted excellent efficiency is impressive

I get that people like Zach and want him to succeed. I hope he succeeds too. I'm just not nearly as impressed with his alleged potential as many here are. He'll be 23 in 2 months and has played in 174 NBA games; and he has had consistent opportunity in those games. He hasn't had his playing time jerked around like a lot of young players do. That's a resume that means the 'he's young and inexperienced' excuse is wearing really thin. John Collins is only 2 months older than Zach. Jaren Jackson is 2 years younger. Bam Adebayo is only 4 months older.

to this point, Zach has had less impact for Portland than Mo Harkless. To suggest he's close to the level of John Collins, except for some circumstances, seems a real big stretch
 
Wade Garrett said:
I see.
Well, I have never thought to compare Zach with anyone.
I'd just like to see him make an IMPACT PLAY......Just once....
Block a last second shot......Get an offensive rebound, DUNK it and get fouled, then actually convert the free throw....Make a crunchtime 3....
Do something...Anything....
Your 5pts and 5rebs and 5 fouls make me sick.
Sorry man, I rooted for Meyers Leonard for 8+ seasons....
I aint doin' that again.
Click to expand...

Then I don't know what to respond with, because while he's not a star, he has made impact plays.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
I think Zach is ok, but the Blazers need a forward who can help run the offense. Since this started with the Draymond comparison defensively, offensively while Zach's a better shooter and has better footwork in the post. He really needs to be a better ball handler and passer. I think what Draymond really does for GS is allows their guards to play off the ball where they cant be keyed in on as much. If they want to start Zach then that's fine to me, but the other forward's gotta be someone who can create/run the offense. I don't think Hood, Ariza, or Melo is that either. So it's not so much Zach in a vacuum as it's the forwards in general for the Blazers need someone they can trust with the ball. I think @hoopsjock mentioned, Zach needs to work on his handle, and his hands in general, I'd agree there.

Also, you guys have definitely gotten better over the last 5-6 months.
Click to expand...
The comparison was defensively with Draymond/Bogut to Collins/Nurk. It took both of those guys a couple years to figure things out defensively too.

As for offense you can just flip the two. Nurk can have the offense run through him. It would be nice if everyone could but I don't necessarily think you need both bigs to be able to.
 
hoopsjock said:
The comparison was defensively with Draymond/Bogut to Collins/Nurk. It took both of those guys a couple years to figure things out defensively too.

As for offense you can just flip the two. Nurk can have the offense run through him. It would be nice if everyone could but I don't necessarily think you need both bigs to be able to.
Click to expand...
Nurk was pushing the ball up from what I saw of the bubble, but even when he did, they'd all just stop and go back into their normal sets... They run everything through their guards... So maybe it doesn't matter if Zach works on the other skills...
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
Nurk was pushing the ball up from what I saw of the bubble, but even when he did, they'd all just stop and go back into their normal sets... They run everything through their guards... So maybe it doesn't matter if Zach works on the other skills...
Click to expand...
They tried a few times to run some offense through Nurk but there is basically little to no cutters, back screens, or off ball movement so it's wasting his passing ability to not have avenues to pass out of it.

Super frustrating.
 
hoopsjock said:
Yeah, it's fine to not be high on Zach but to say he's never made an impact play is just wrong.
Click to expand...
I admit, at my age, my memory is not what it once was. But I can't recall a "impact performance" from Zach. Ever.
Keeping in mind, that what I define as "impactful" may not be the same definition as yours. I admit, he's an NBA player, every dog has its day.
But my memory tells me, whenever he is much needed to make a play, (or even "play") he disappears. Or is on the bench in foul trouble.
Like I said earlier. I DO remember cheering and rooting for ML. Always believed in the guy,..." next year will be his breakout, you watch!"
Nope. Not doin' that again.
 
Wade Garrett said:
I admit, at my age, my memory is not what it once was. But I can't recall a "impact performance" from Zach. Ever.
Keeping in mind, that what I define as "impactful" may not be the same definition as yours. I admit, he's an NBA player, every dog has its day.
But my memory tells me, whenever he is much needed to make a play, (or even "play") he disappears. Or is on the bench in foul trouble.
Like I said earlier. I DO remember cheering and rooting for ML. Always believed in the guy,..." next year will be his breakout, you watch!"
Nope. Not doin' that again.
Click to expand...
Guys still young and has a lot to work on, but I know he is a very hard worker and does everything the coaches ask. If somebody were to ask me if I ever remembered a game he made an impact in, this one comes to mind.

 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
I think Zach is ok, but the Blazers need a forward who can help run the offense. Since this started with the Draymond comparison defensively, offensively while Zach's a better shooter and has better footwork in the post. He really needs to be a better ball handler and passer. I think what Draymond really does for GS is allows their guards to play off the ball where they cant be keyed in on as much. If they want to start Zach then that's fine to me, but the other forward's gotta be someone who can create/run the offense. I don't think Hood, Ariza, or Melo is that either. So it's not so much Zach in a vacuum as it's the forwards in general for the Blazers need someone they can trust with the ball. I think @hoopsjock mentioned, Zach needs to work on his handle, and his hands in general, I'd agree there.

Also, you guys have definitely gotten better over the last 5-6 months.
Click to expand...
Why do we need two ball handling and passing bigs? Nurkic is already a good passer and solid ball handler for a C.

I don't think we need 5 ball handlers on the court.
 
wizenheimer said:
wut? why not?

Melo averaged 13.5 shots and he had a crappy TS% of .525. It's weird to suggest JC couldn't get one more FGA a game than Melo when JC has a TS% of .659. If Blazers had JC that very likely wouldn't have Melo

as far as Collins vs Collins, so far:

FG%: Zach .444....John .571
2ptFG%: Zach .504....John .615
3ptFG%: Zach .324....John .369 (JC shot 40.1% this season)
FT%: Zach .722....John .757
eFG%: Zach .498....John .604

PER: Zach 10.8....John 21.0
TS%: Zach .528....John .634
FT rate: Zach .232....John .304
OffReb%: Zach 7.2%....John 11.0%
DefReb%: Zach 17.1%....John 22.9%
TotReb%: Zach .444....John .571
Assist rate: Zach 7.1%....John 9.3%
Turnover rate: Zach 15.2%....John 11.8%
Steal rate: Zach 0.9%....John 1.0%
Block Rate: Zach 3.1%....John 3.2%
Winshares: Zach 3.9....John 16.4
Winshares/48: Zach .069....John .158
Box +/-: Zach -2.6....John +1.1
Value Over Replacement: Zach -0.4....John +3.9

all those categories and Zach didn't win a single one; not one. John even had a higher block rate than Zach. Isn't that supposed to be one of Zach's strengths?

yeah, John Collins has had more opportunity, but almost all of those categories have nothing to do with volume or usage. Besides that, JC posted those numbers playing against opposing starting units, While Zach spent a lot of time on the floor against 2nd units. And that JC has had that kind of opportunity against starters and has still posted excellent efficiency is impressive

I get that people like Zach and want him to succeed. I hope he succeeds too. I'm just not nearly as impressed with his alleged potential as many here are. He'll be 23 in 2 months and has played in 174 NBA games; and he has had consistent opportunity in those games. He hasn't had his playing time jerked around like a lot of young players do. That's a resume that means the 'he's young and inexperienced' excuse is wearing really thin. John Collins is only 2 months older than Zach. Jaren Jackson is 2 years younger. Bam Adebayo is only 4 months older.

to this point, Zach has had less impact for Portland than Mo Harkless. To suggest he's close to the level of John Collins, except for some circumstances, seems a real big stretch
Click to expand...
None of those stats are an accurate reflection of defense.
 
Wade Garrett said:
Lost interest after reading "5th option.."
That is at best, all he will be, based on what I have seen for what seems a Meyers Leonard-like eternity.
Plus, you elude to a "JC" and I'm not sure who that even is.
So, my apologies for not addressing.
Click to expand...
You're underrating what having proper role players does for a team. People wish he was a 15/10 guy who played no defense, but then they complain about how we have no defenders.
 
BonesJones said:
Why do we need two ball handling and passing bigs? Nurkic is already a good passer and solid ball handler for a C.

I don't think we need 5 ball handlers on the court.
Click to expand...
Nurkic has only shown the ball handling part for a few games in the bubble (that I saw). Their other forwards are guys who are looking for their own shot most of the time, or Zach. Right now the ball is in the guard's hands way too much, and then most of their actions are running laps on the parameter (I know this is hyperbolic)... They could run the offense more through Nurk and that would probably work too, but they don't.
 
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