Game Thread 2020 Debate Part 3 - Sept 12 (1 Viewer)

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riverman said:
I understand this but to me...you do both...allowing your children to learn in the community they live in develops social skills homeschooling may not address...there's more to school than academics but at the same time you need to homeschool if you're a parent no matter if your children attend public or private school...I taught my son everyday at home and he went to public school....growing up on a dairy farm in rural Iowa, I loved school....if I wasn't in class discovering things I'd be on the farm mucking out stalls or weeding soybeans. I loved the library.....place I could shut off the world and learn without distractions.
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I spent most of HS in the library, I read most of the time I was awake. So my kids do take part in social activities. The local library does events for kids and reading that they’re active in, the oldest is active in community service and volunteers with my wife and I. We dont want to lock them up in the house because I agree that having kids who can cope socially is important. Just a choice we made, we certainly arent perfect parents by any stretch and others certainly have chosen other ways for their children. Nothing wrong with that neccessarily.
 
MarAzul said:
Read it again!
Not when I needed it. Then you need A doctor that accepts more Medicare patients, and is in that insurances' program.

Ha!
You're kind of like @SlyPokerDog, go find me what I needed 9 years ago,:cool2: now.
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Well then I don’t get the issue, and am kind of done thinking of it. Insurance companies don’t/can’t open plans in counties without a network of physicians. This sounds like user error.
 
Chris Craig said:
There is a saying, teachers don't go into teaching for the money. They do it because it is their passion. There are good arguments for teachers being paid more. But, there are other issues at hand too in the education system that need to be fixed.

Every year the funding for our schools shrink. The numbers of teachers are dwindling because the money isnt there to pay them. They are laid off. There is no money for supplies and books. Teachers are paying out of pocket as well as parents now.

With less students, class sizes are climbing. There are some teachers with 35- 40 kids in their class. Crowded classrooms make it harder to teacher, make it harder for students to learn. Students benefit from 1 on 1 time and don't get that in large classes. Many students are failing and dropping out because of this.

School buildings are closing because funding is so bad. We can't hire enough staff to keep them open. Every year I see a school close. Our education system is falling apart because we aren't investing in our kids. They are the future.
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Bingo
Everyone including business of all types need to increase their support for funding schools in a sound fiscal way.
There are States an Cities that have had success and IMO set bench marks on how to step up and manage education. This State seems to be reluctant.
 
calvin natt said:
This sounds like user error.
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I think you might be sort of right. It is the sort of thing you get when the government runs the plan, but has no plan to connect all the dots, or even care how many there are or even if they are connectable.

Can the government force a Doctor to accept medicare patients?
No because they can not force anyone to be a Doctor healthcare provider that operates below the cost of doing business.

Can the government force a Doctor to accept any insurance (E, Warren)?
No, see above. Also that specific insurance may not include the Doctor in it's network. Or the Insurance may not pay enough to cover the Doctors cost+Profit.

Can the government force Insurance companies to complete in all counties?
Hell I sure doubt it.
 
Hoopguru said:
This State seems to be reluctant.
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If you can tell what this State is doing, you are insightful give the obfuscation the State has put in place over the past few years.

But I would wager that it would be unlikely to be possible given the way the State allocates funds to make up all per student expenditures equal regardless of local resources.
 
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MarAzul said:
If you can tell what this State is doing, you are insightful give the obfuscation the State has put in place over the past few years.

But I would wager that it would be unlikely to be possible give the way the State allocates funds to make up all per student expenditures equal regardless of local resources.
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I would favor the Lottery proceeds go directly to Education/ districts that need the assistance. With responsible criteria for performance.
Years ago I dealt with a large Portland Company that purchased a lot of material from me, the GM was bragging on how he and the VP and their wives were all going to Viet Nam for a month on the State from lottery proceeds that a 100% went to Economic development. Their intentions were to go purchase used equipment for-resale over here.
That company didn’t need the funds from the State they could have financed it themselves easily.
 
Hoopguru said:
proceeds go directly to Education/ districts that need the assistance.
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Well until you can understand what this statement means and what that view is by others in control. No plan would render much change.
 
MarAzul said:
I think you might be sort of right. It is the sort of thing you get when the government runs the plan, but has no plan to connect all the dots, or even care how many there are or even if they are connectable.

Can the government force a Doctor to accept medicare patients?
No because they can not force anyone to be a Doctor healthcare provider that operates below the cost of doing business.

Can the government force a Doctor to accept any insurance (E, Warren)?
No, see above. Also that specific insurance may not include the Doctor in it's network. Or the Insurance may not pay enough to cover the Doctors cost+Profit.

Can the government force Insurance companies to complete in all counties?
Hell I sure doubt it.
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No, the govt nor the health plan can make a doctor participate. But before a plan gets created and then launched for a county, they must prove they have a network of docs. That’s just fact. So if any MA or Supplemental plans are in Coos County, there are doctors and cheap plans available for Medicare beneficiaries. Now, you might have issues with your particular doctor working with a plan, but he/she must accept some insurances and most likely realized unless they want to lose members, they’ll have to participate. If someone has straight Medicare it would be harder most likely.
 
calvin natt said:
No, the govt nor the health plan can make a doctor participate. But before a plan gets created and then launched for a county, they must prove they have a network of docs. That’s just fact. So if any MA or Supplemental plans are in Coos County, there are doctors and cheap plans available for Medicare beneficiaries. Now, you might have issues with your particular doctor working with a plan, but he/she must accept some insurances and most likely realized unless they want to lose members, they’ll have to participate. If someone has straight Medicare it would be harder most likely.
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Let us assume all you just said is true. But Doctors do not necessarily get paid more when the patient has a MA plan. It usually is a benefit for the patient. The payments received by the doctor are set by medicare and are some times altered by agreement between the Doctor network and the Insurance company. This does not change the big picture for the most Doctors, payments by for Medicare Patients is below cost on the average. Most doctors need regular patients to offset the cost of Medicare patients.
That is the primary reason for them to not accept more Medicare patients. It is the reason I could not find another doctor when my current one decided to retire from practice.

Moda was the First MA plan we were able to buy in our county after this time. They stayed in the business there one or two years, can't remember, but not long and dropped out before the end of a year. When this happens, you got a find another match!
Really a shabby system to stick people with.
 
Most all carriers offer Medicare Advatage plans including Keizer.
Pricing/premiums are predicated on how much out of pocket before they cover 100%.
They are in the doctors eyes and mine just like regular insurance before I became Medicare eligible.
I still have to purchase the monthly fed Medicare at $130 month and don’t even need it. That’s the one that Doctor don’t want to provide services for.
My doc is a friend and a part of a family care office and they won’t take on Medicare only patients.
He says it’s the time lapse and stricter amounts paid.
There is an effort to push it all to MA through a regular insurance company that’s is more efficient and pays with more flex.
 
MarAzul said:
Let us assume all you just said is true. But Doctors do not necessarily get paid more when the patient has a MA plan. It usually is a benefit for the patient. The payments received by the doctor are set by medicare and are some times altered by agreement between the Doctor network and the Insurance company. This does not change the big picture for the most Doctors, payments by for Medicare Patients is below cost on the average. Most doctors need regular patients to offset the cost of Medicare patients.
That is the primary reason for them to not accept more Medicare patients. It is the reason I could not find another doctor when my current one decided to retire from practice.

Moda was the First MA plan we were able to buy in our county after this time. They stayed in the business there one or two years, can't remember, but not long and dropped out before the end of a year. When this happens, you got a find another match!
Really a shabby system to stick people with.
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We need a universal insurance program where the doctors get paid 100% and 100% is covered.
 
Chris Craig said:
We need a universal insurance program where the doctors get paid 100% and 100% is covered.
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My best estimate is, the closest we came was the early 60s. And then you still could pay your bills when you did not have insurance. Hospitals were not so damn expensive, they were not tasked to cover those that had no way to pay, so they did not need to cost shift. Even when you ran up a bill so damn big you could never pay, you did not go broke and lose your home. The state still allowed us to declare the home a homestead which protected it from confiscation.
It began a down hill slide though with the Medicare bill in 1965. Man stuff change rapidly year after years from there on.
I do not know what will put a good system in place now. None proposed so far.
 
Chris Craig said:
More like 7-5...even 6. Your right there is a misconception here. Teachers are often sitting at their desks hours after school working. They bring it home too...grading papers, making lesson plans, etc. There are many no school days when the teacher is there working. It is a lot of work, especially with class sizes going up.
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Oh boo hoo, they get nearly three months off in a row and every major holiday/breaks. Forgive me for not pitying the paper graders over actual laborers who work 60 hour weeks.

Teachers are paid quite fairly considering how many of them are absolute dogshit at their craft.
 
Chris Craig said:
universal insurance
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This term is sort of an odd thing. Insurance only has value to someone when it reduces their perceived risk, then they will be willing to pay for it. People that do not perceive risk will not be willing to pay. The self insured employers are the biggest of this group
while they cover the costs of the most healthy while insurance companies and governments have worked to cost shift burden to them in a never ending cycle.
Those that benefit most, do not cover their cost, so those that perceive risk but do not actually endure costs, pay the burden.
 
GhostOfPGA said:
Oh boo hoo, they get nearly three months off in a row and every major holiday/breaks. Forgive me for not pitying the paper graders over actual laborers who work 60 hour weeks.

Teachers are paid quite fairly considering how many of them are absolute dogshit at their craft.
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Most of those teachers work when school's out for summer.I painted houses, played music and tended bar..and many take work home on holidays and breaks...ever teach? I taught public school on the Big Island of Hawaii and you doubled as a policeman....stressful place to teach..boo hoo? Walk the walk and get back to me. There are people who are dogshit at their craft in any field you can come up with...hopefully it's not your airline pilot...doesn't mean it's not hard work...I know teachers who tutor for free after hours at the local library for gifted kids whose parents are at the bar...y'know...dogshit parents?...walk the walk before you make snap judgements about the profession.
 
Bottom line is a teacher is going to help your child if you as a parent develop a relationship with the teacher and become involved in their education...not many parents get that memo....lucky to show up at a parent teacher conference once a year in many cases.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
Im not sure why we act like school teachers dont get paid...

I googled this but this is what PPS teachers make on average.

$59,845

The average Public School Teacher salary in Portland, OR is $59,845 as of August 27, 2019, but the range typically falls between $52,241 and $69,087.

How much should they get paid?

Thats basically average salary or greater than everyone else.

I have no interest in not paying people, but a single adult IMO should be able to live off of that, now you bring in kids and a spouse the dynamic changes and I understand that, but I dont think Teachers are extremely under paid.

Also with more googling the average salary by education level, makes it look like teachers at least in PPS are about at the average.

I realize that some places teachers make less, I assume some places teachers make more too.

If you want to make everyones pay go up ok, but Im not sure why teachers in particular need a raise.
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riverman said:
show up at a parent teacher conference
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I went to one in particular onetime, I think my son was in the seventh grade. I went as requested, me, not his mom.
I asked the teach, what was up? What did she need?
She said, I just wanted to see what you looked like!
I couldn't get anything more out of her.

I always sort of wondered about that one. Never did get further with her.
 
SlyPokerCat said:
Come on man. For the job they have, that is not nearly enough. For a master's degree (high school) that's not nearly enough. I don't know what you do, but 60k is not enough for someone watching shithead kids, molding their intellectual minds, dealing with assholes.

And i know. I deal with assholes with a higher education constantly .
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You don't need a master's degree to teach in High school, you need a Bachelors.
https://www.teachercertificationdegrees.com/careers/high-school-teacher/
https://www.teacher.org/career/high-school-teacher/

Just like in any other fields though if someone wants to go get a Masters Degree or a Doctorate I have no problems compensating them for it. I'm also not saying that 60k is "well paid" but it is a liveable wage at least in most places (there are a lot of variables to what is live-able).
 
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Lanny said:
Change for the sake of change is like diving off a bridge without checking whether there are any rocks hidden just below the surface of the water.
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That’s an interesting anecdote. Doesn’t make a lot of sense, but interesting.

Someone who actually thinks change is needed wouldn’t consider it “change for the sake of change”. They might think of it more as change for the sake of healthcare and not being at war all the time and not being robbed by corporations and Wall Street bankers at every turn.

Pretty extreme viewpoint, I know.
 
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TorturedBlazerFan said:
$59,845

The average Public School Teacher salary in Portland, OR is $59,845 as of August 27, 2019, but the range typically falls between $52,241 and $69,087.
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There you go! Stop right there. A good point for a real discussion
Actual numbers.
1. If you check out the average incomes through out Oregon, you probably will find it difficult to find 5 people in any town under 10,000 people across this State that makes more money than this per year.

So in comparison it is a good wage.


But, when you look at the money spent state wide on schools, nearly $11,000/child/year, with maybe 25 - 30 children per teacher, that is 275K - 333k per year/teacher spent by the schools.

What in holy hell are they spending the money on besides the one teacher getting the 60K???
That is a real WTF in my book. Are there hidden costs per teacher we do not hear about?
Help please.
 
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