Game Thread 2020 Debate Part 3 - Sept 12 (2 Viewers)

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The analogy was intended to be humorous, but please elaborate on the difference - why would you want government sewage services but not government education services?



You also pay for public schools so....



If you hire randomly, then of course you might be right. I think instead the goal would be to hire the best applicants, wouldn't it?

barfo
Did I say to not have public schools? No, Im fine with paying for others to have that option if they want it.
Some utilities are privatized and I pay for those, if they all were undoubtedly I would pay for the private services. It doesnt mean I wouldnt pay my taxes for others who need/want the government to run it.

Yes, but making a job more lucrative means there are also more bad applicants, and while you can always be, “more selective”, no ones found the perfect hiring system so just because the pool is bigger doesn't mean you’ll be hiring better. Supposedly the election process is pretty selective and yet here we are...
 
Did I say to not have public schools? No, Im fine with paying for others to have that option if they want it.
Some utilities are privatized and I pay for those, if they all were undoubtedly I would pay for the private services. It doesnt mean I wouldnt pay my taxes for others who need/want the government to run it.

Wasn't trying to accuse you of being against public education or paying your taxes, just trying to explore the reasons for homeschooling, which I find an interesting choice.

Yes, but making a job more lucrative means there are also more bad applicants, and while you can always be, “more selective”, no ones found the perfect hiring system so just because the pool is bigger doesn't mean you’ll be hiring better.

There are ways to screw up no matter what the situation, but you've got a better shot at hiring well with a bigger applicant pool.

Supposedly the election process is pretty selective and yet here we are...

Well, yes. If you hire the least qualified applicant because you want to 'shake things up', the results are not going to be good.

barfo
 
I think Klobachar would beat Warren in a debate and I( think she will be the dark horse winner for the nomination.
This article compares what I think her approach will be and how it is similar to Obama's approach once he got the nomination.
When demo's go to far left and out there, it hasn't been good for them and it could happen again in 2020.

Is Amy Klobuchar a moderate?
By Eric Black | 02/08/2019
Klobuchar2018PrideParade640a.jpg

MinnPost file photo by Craig Lassig
Across the spectrum, Sen. Amy Klobuchar holds positions that until recently were considered the definition of liberalism, and even on the left edge of that definition. Now those positions look moderate.
This will eventually be about Amy Klobuchar’s place in the Democratic presidential field, but let me start with a different presidential candidate from three cycles back.

In a video, taken in 2003, Barack Obama, a mere Illinois state legislator starting a longshot bid for a U.S. Senate seat, said:

I happen to be a proponent of a single-payer universal health care program. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its gross national product on health care, cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody. And that’s what Jim is talking about when he says everybody in, nobody out. A single-payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. That’s what I’d like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we’ve got to take back the White House, we’ve got to take back the Senate, and we’ve got to take back the House.

After that man won that Senate seat, and then became president — at a time when his party controlled the White House, the Senate and the (other) House — he led the push to create the Affordable Care Act (now generally known as Obamacare). Obamacare is not “single payer” nor any other form of “universal” health care coverage, but did succeed in reducing the uninsured portion of the U.S. population to the lowest level it had ever reached. Still, even at the peak of Obamacare, the United States continued to have a far larger share of its population uninsured than most wealthy industrialized democracies. And we certainly didn’t get single payer or any of the other systems that provide pretty much universal health care coverage to other nations’ populations.


I’m not sure how close he has ever come to admitting it, but I believe that the now grey-haired ex-president probably agrees with what his young self said back in 2003. But even by the time of that same election cycle, he had stopped being so clear about it. The political and practical realities – the long American aversion to anything that can be called “socialism” and the power of the for-profit health industries – told him that he couldn’t get anywhere politically or practically, pushing the heavy rock labeled “socialized medicine” or even the less-scary-sounding “single-payer” up that steep double-black-diamond hill.

But times have changed in America, and certainly within the Democratic Party’s electorate. A man who openly called himself a socialist, Bernie Sanders, came close to winning the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination. That never happened before. And no one to this day knows whether Sanders might’ve ended up doing better in the finals than Hillary Clinton did.

Many of the new darlings of the Democratic Party are unafraid to call themselves socialists. And most of the known aspirants for the 2020 Democratic nomination have endorsed some form of universal coverage, single-payer or otherwise.

Our senior senator, Amy Klobuchar, who is expected to launch her presidential bid Sunday, has never come out in favor of single payer or any other plan that provides or guarantees health insurance to everyone. But, short of that, the solidly liberal Klobuchar has supported pretty much every idea that has come along during her career that would shrink the ranks of the uninsured.

Here is the most recent statement I can find online about Klobuchar’s views on health care. Not very long ago it would have been viewed as almost unimaginably liberal. Almost everything in it is about increasing access to more and better health care at better prices to consumers, especially the families of the working poor who make a little too much to qualify for Medicaid.

She favors allowing Medicare to be authorized to more aggressively negotiate with drug companies to drive down prices (the “Empowering Medicare Seniors to Negotiate Drug Prices Act”). She favors a “public option” that would allow people who are not old enough for Medicare or poor enough for Medicaid to buy into those programs.

I mentioned in a recent post that there are two versions of what could be called “Medicare for All.” One version, which the leftmost Democratic candidates are supporting, is really a name for single-payer, which could virtually do away with private insurance. Kamala Harris and Bernie Sanders favor that.

The more moderate version would allow anyone who wants to to buy into Medicare. It would be universal “access,” but not universal coverage, because some would not use that option and would remain uninsured. Pending her announcement, that appears to be what Klobuchar favors. It’s a perfect example of my overall point: Not long ago, a sitting senator advocating a universal option to buy into Medicare would have represented the leftmost wing of the Democratic Party. Now it makes you a moderate.

Klobuchar has not signed on to Sanders’ single-payer health care bill, commonly called Medicare for All. She said it “should be considered,” but prefers “a sensible transition” such as allowing people to buy into Medicare, or expanding Medicare it to cover those 55 (as opposed to the current 65 )and older.


Her push to make college more affordable is not as expansive as the left would like. While she has denounced Trump’s border policies, she has not joined the movement to abolish the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency.

At the risk of running on too long today, I won’t go issue by issue. Across the spectrum, Klobuchar holds positions that until recently were considered the definition of liberalism, and even on the left edge of that definition. Now those positions look moderate, and, some will say, too moderate for the energized Democrats of today.

I’ll make the point one more way. I looked up Klobuchar’s annual ratings by Americans for Democratic Action. For most of my life, the ADA was sort of the definition of “liberalism” in the United States.

Since she joined the Senate in 2007, Klobuchar has never gotten a rating lower than 85 percent from the ADA. In three years, ADA scored her at 100 percent. (One year, she was among only three who got a perfect ADA rating.) For seven years, she served alongside Al Franken and they were never more than five points apart ADA ratings-wise. These are the ADA scores of a very solid liberal, which is what Klobuchar always has been and still is.

But the word “liberal” is going out of fashion in the activist wing of the Democrat Party and the word “socialist” is becoming a word you can call yourself in some places without committing political suicide. The energy of the party is concentrated at that end.

The success of Bernie Sanders in 2016 energized that end. Many of the leading candidates for the nomination are at that end. And many of them will call Klobuchar, who is still a solid liberal, a moderate. And on today’s new spectrum, that may be accurate. Which brings us to the question of electability.

For most of my life, Democrats shied away from nominating candidates from their own left wing. And when they did go left — think George McGovern in 1972 — it didn’t go well. The argument was that a too-far-left nominee would scare away moderate voters, which would cost Democrats the election. That argument is still out there, and I assume it is an argument will be deployed on behalf of Klobuchar and others who are not in the Sanders-Warren-Harris wing of the party.

Of course, the defeat of Hillary Clinton, who was nominated in part based on the idea that she was electable and Sanders was not, was a blow to that argument, but hardly dispositive.

The counter-argument is that a leftier Democratic nominee will excite increased turnout among groups that sometimes don’t turn out, like younger voters and voters of color, as well as reduce the number of votes the party will lose to Socialist and Green Party alternative tickets.


Klobuchar’s truly impressive record of landslide wins in her Senate races will help her make an electability argument. But Harris and Sanders and Warren and others have won many elections, too, all of them in blue states. The Klobuchar argument will probably be that she can compete in purple states if she is harder to label as a big-government, borderline socialist lefty.

Right after the midterms, when the national punditocracy started focusing on the possible huge field of Democratic presidential candidates, the New York Times turned its gaze toward Klobuchar and encapsulated the question/dilemma I’ve been exploring today. The piece included this:

But while winning over independents and some centrist Republicans, as Ms. Klobuchar has done, may be an asset in a general election, it could be a hindrance in a Democratic primary dominated by the left. Although she is hardly a centrist, Ms. Klobuchar departs from progressive orthodoxy on several fronts.

She has not signed onto Mr. Sanders’s single-payer health care bill, commonly called Medicare for All; she said it “should be considered,” but prefers “a sensible transition” such as allowing people to buy into Medicare, or expanding it to cover those 55 and older. Her push to make college more affordable is not as expansive as the left would like. While she has denounced Mr. Trump’s border policies, she has not joined the movement to abolish the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency.

“She’s a perfectly fine Democrat,” said Adam Green, a founder of the Progressive Change Campaign Committee, “but if we’re looking for a transformational leader and someone who’s going to elevate big, bold ideas and systemic change, others like Elizabeth Warren seem to fit the bill a little bit more head on.” The question really is, Is America Ready fro Socialism or Not?
I like Klobuchar but she is toast. She is one of several Democratic candidates who, when they talk, sound like a near perfect candidate to vote for. But then another one talks and I'm all for that one. What makes it so hard to tell which one is the best is the opposition is so horrible that my lawnmower man would be a better President which means all the Democratic candidates are vastly superior, yes, even Inslee and Yang.
 
I like Klobuchar but she is toast. She is one of several Democratic candidates who, when they talk, sound like a near perfect candidate to vote for. But then another one talks and I'm all for that one. What makes it so hard to tell which one is the best is the opposition is so horrible that my lawnmower man would be a better President which means all the Democratic candidates are vastly superior, yes, even Inslee and Yang.
She's taking pointers from the Obama campaign where she doe'snt want not to alienate, moderates/independents and mid western democrats in the mid west by not being so hard core progressive in the socialistic way. She smart because she know this country just might vote Trump in again if her party does'nt find a candidate thats more balanced and an non socialist option.
 
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She's taking pointers from the Obama campaign where she doe'snt want not to alienate, moderates/independents and mid western democrats in the mid west by not being so hard core progressive in the socialistic way. She smart because she know this country just might vote Trump in again if her party does'nt find a candidate thats more balanced and an non socialist option.

Klobuchar has 2 chances to be the democratic candidate and that's slim and none with none leading by a wide margin in the polls. I have nothing against her but realistically she really isn't a viable candidate.
 
Klobuchar has 2 chances to be the democratic candidate and that's slim and none with none leading by a wide margin in the polls. I have nothing against her but realistically she really isn't a viable candidate.

I like Amy, but she just isn't getting the oxygen with all the other people in the race. Her best hope is that Biden implodes, but even then, his voters won't all go directly to her.
It's too bad, because her candidacy makes sense - what we need after Trump is a steady, calm, competent, uncorrupt, knowledgeable president.

barfo
 
I like Amy, but she just isn't getting the oxygen with all the other people in the race. Her best hope is that Biden implodes, but even then, his voters won't all go directly to her.
It's too bad, because her candidacy makes sense - what we need after Trump is a steady, calm, competent, uncorrupt, knowledgeable president.

barfo

A Warren/Klobuchar ticket would be fine with me. Klobuchar could step into the President role when Warren is done. And the good 'ol boys with Trump stickers will really throw a fit.
 
Klobuchar has 2 chances to be the democratic candidate and that's slim and none with none leading by a wide margin in the polls. I have nothing against her but realistically she really isn't a viable candidate.
Will see. I think she may be more palatable than the rest. But thats just my opinion.
Who do you see as taking the nomination?
 
Will see. I think she may be more palatable than the rest. But thats just my opinion.
Who do you see as taking the nomination?
The reality is, Klobachar has limited name exposure and is way behind in the polls with several significantly ahead of her. I have nothing against her, but just looking at it realistically.
 
Wasn't trying to accuse you of being against public education or paying your taxes, just trying to explore the reasons for homeschooling, which I find an interesting choice.



There are ways to screw up no matter what the situation, but you've got a better shot at hiring well with a bigger applicant pool.



Well, yes. If you hire the least qualified applicant because you want to 'shake things up', the results are not going to be good.

barfo

I feel like I laid out my reasons fairly well, but you may not have seen them, I don't expect people to read every post in a big thread like this...

I'm not sure I agree with you. If you have a 50/50 shot of making a good hire does it matter if you have 2 applicants or 100 applicants? Or say you have a 7 out of 10 shot to get the hire right, does it matter if you have 10 applicants or 100? It's still 7 out of 10... Now I realize that's a really simple way to look at it, but I guess I don't totally buy that the action of paying teachers more has the reaction of better teachers. It may, but I'm not sure if it will. ~ Again I'm not against paying teachers more (I think the middle class / lower class in general needs to be better off).

The point wasn't the reasons for the "hire", just that no matter how selective a process may be, it can still be gotten completely wrong. We see it in sports all the time, with free agency, hiring of management, etc. Those are all well-paid positions, and extremely selective as well.
 
The reality is, Klobachar has limited name exposure and is way behind in the polls with several significantly ahead of her. I have nothing against her, but just looking at it realistically.
Im saying she will be the dark horse because I think she does have recognition especially in the mid west and how she has performed in congress. But my main reason thinking this and again its just my take, is that she will prove to be a very good debater and she will know how appeal to this that don't buy into the more progressive positions like Bernie & EW (just like Obama did).
Thats why I posted that article from the MT I thought the writer was on point and it wasn't written by a Nazi but someone form the demo party.
EW is to flighty and all over the place and trying to capture the burn, but Kloby is steady and sharp. Some you you think the primary is over because of polling now but its still as ways out a much can happen. And we all know that polling anymore isn't that accurate.
 
I feel like I laid out my reasons fairly well, but you may not have seen them, I don't expect people to read every post in a big thread like this...

I'm not sure I agree with you. If you have a 50/50 shot of making a good hire does it matter if you have 2 applicants or 100 applicants? Or say you have a 7 out of 10 shot to get the hire right, does it matter if you have 10 applicants or 100? It's still 7 out of 10... Now I realize that's a really simple way to look at it, but I guess I don't totally buy that the action of paying teachers more has the reaction of better teachers. It may, but I'm not sure if it will. ~ Again I'm not against paying teachers more (I think the middle class / lower class in general needs to be better off).

The point wasn't the reasons for the "hire", just that no matter how selective a process may be, it can still be gotten completely wrong. We see it in sports all the time, with free agency, hiring of management, etc. Those are all well-paid positions, and extremely selective as well.

Do you think the NBA gets it mostly wrong? Do you think that a random selection from all college players would be better?

If the Blazers could only draft players from the U of O, would they be just as good? Or do they benefit from being able to select from any college?

barfo
 
Do you think the NBA gets it mostly wrong? Do you think that a random selection from all college players would be better?

If the Blazers could only draft players from the U of O, would they be just as good? Or do they benefit from being able to select from any college?

barfo
I think the NBA gets it wrong fairly regularly. No, but it would be interesting... No, because they would just be the U of O.
Your line of questioning seems to have a bias towards if there are more applicants then, of course, the chance to get it right goes up, and that I guess is what I am questioning. Does it?
In the NBA example there are thousands of players to choose from, and only a handful get picked, and only a handful make it. Who knows if the others would of made it, but it seems like broadening your scope also broadened the amount of bad applicants. Say you have the U of O or Duke or Kentucky or Gonzaga or any school, and every year they have 2-3 guys who you would consider drafting and every year at least ONE of those players is going to be a good NBA Athlete, then you have a 33/50 percent shot of getting it right. Obviously this isn't how it works, there are a number of years where schools don't have any good NBA players, so being able to pick from all the schools and int. players is a boon, but it still doesn't mean they get it right, and how much does that chance go up? I have no idea.

If you have 80% good applicants, and 20% bad applicants do you have a better chance of getting a good player or a good teacher if the pool is 10,000, or 10?

I think the NBA has a plethora of examples of getting it right and getting it wrong, even with the caveats of being able to select from any college or international players, and yes, of course, there are benefits to having a broader spectrum to choose from, but there are also negatives to that as well, such as the "costs" of trying to make the right selection, the time involved in the process, and consequences of making a bad selection.

Now for teachers, the pro's and cons would be different, but they still exist.

Broadening your scope is fine, but it also broadens the number of bad applicants. Who knows if it's 1:1 and the ratio scales the same, but I'd like you to mathematically prove it to me that raising the number of applicants (because of money) has a direct corresponding relationship with increasing the probability of making good hires because I don't think you can. I think it's theoretical at this point, and not empirical.

I'm going to feel like I need to add to every post that I'm not against paying teachers more money, that was never my point, though I believe we have gone off the rails.
 
I feel like I laid out my reasons fairly well, but you may not have seen them, I don't expect people to read every post in a big thread like this...

I'm not sure I agree with you. If you have a 50/50 shot of making a good hire does it matter if you have 2 applicants or 100 applicants? Or say you have a 7 out of 10 shot to get the hire right, does it matter if you have 10 applicants or 100? It's still 7 out of 10... Now I realize that's a really simple way to look at it, but I guess I don't totally buy that the action of paying teachers more has the reaction of better teachers. It may, but I'm not sure if it will. ~ Again I'm not against paying teachers more (I think the middle class / lower class in general needs to be better off).

The point wasn't the reasons for the "hire", just that no matter how selective a process may be, it can still be gotten completely wrong. We see it in sports all the time, with free agency, hiring of management, etc. Those are all well-paid positions, and extremely selective as well.

I have read all of your posts on this and I still don’t follow. Raise pay = increase applicants = increase talent pool. But you think you’ll still end up with the same people/quality? Going with the NBA example. What if we didn’t pay our players the most in the world on average? Wouldn’t they go elsewhere?
 
I'm going to feel like I need to add to every post that I'm not against paying teachers more money, that was never my point,

Agreed and so stipulated.

though I believe we have gone off the rails.

There are no rails in OT discussions.

Will respond to the rest of your post later, perhaps, got to work now.

barfo
 
I have read all of your posts on this and I still don’t follow. Raise pay = increase applicants = increase talent pool. But you think you’ll still end up with the same people/quality? Going with the NBA example. What if we didn’t pay our players the most in the world on average? Wouldn’t they go elsewhere?
Because your equation isn't 1:1. Raise Pay = increases bad and good applicants = increased talent pool. The real question (to me) is how do you select the right people to hire to raise the success rate of students having good teachers. Increasing the talent pool may be part of that equation, but the part that no one really seems to talk about is the process of making the selection. If you have 10 and a 50/50 shot to select the right one it doesn't matter if you have 10 or 10000, the ratio remains the same. What you need is to find systems to increase the rate of making the correct hire. Yes, there is a "shortage" of teachers that an increased talent pool can help, but it doesn't really matter if you have an excess or a shortage if you continue to make bad hires. The teacher shortage now is mainly in rural areas and in "minority" schools that are underfunded and can't pay as much, so yes paying more can increase the talent pool, but there are a lot of ineffective teachers in places that don't have the same shortage of teachers. I have numerous times said yeah, pay teachers, fund schools, I'm not against any of that, I just don't think it solves the issue of bad teachers, without also taking steps to make the selection process better.
 
Because your equation isn't 1:1. Raise Pay = increases bad and good applicants = increased talent pool. The real question (to me) is how do you select the right people to hire to raise the success rate of students having good teachers. Increasing the talent pool may be part of that equation, but the part that no one really seems to talk about is the process of making the selection. If you have 10 and a 50/50 shot to select the right one it doesn't matter if you have 10 or 10000, the ratio remains the same. What you need is to find systems to increase the rate of making the correct hire. Yes, there is a "shortage" of teachers that an increased talent pool can help, but it doesn't really matter if you have an excess or a shortage if you continue to make bad hires. The teacher shortage now is mainly in rural areas and in "minority" schools that are underfunded and can't pay as much, so yes paying more can increase the talent pool, but there are a lot of ineffective teachers in places that don't have the same shortage of teachers. I have numerous times said yeah, pay teachers, fund schools, I'm not against any of that, I just don't think it solves the issue of bad teachers, without also taking steps to make the selection process better.

But who cares about the increased “bad applicants”? You’ll filter through them like you normally would. Unless you are saying schools are intentionally hiring bad teachers or passing up good ones for bad ones. I don’t think they are. Are all teachers great? No. But there’s be less bad ones if the options to hire better ones existed. You’ll end up with additional good/exceptional candidates and that’s your hiring pool.
 
Klobuchar has 2 chances to be the democratic candidate and that's slim and none with none leading by a wide margin in the polls. I have nothing against her but realistically she really isn't a viable candidate.
I have to agree. Actually, there are quite a number of good candidates who are now simply not going anywhere including my favorite, Buttigieg ("Mayor Pete").
Looks like it's going to be a runoff between Biden and Warren. I'm happy with either although I think Warren would be a slight favorite with me. And I'm torn because I think Biden has the best chance of beating Trump and that's got to be a factor worth considering.
 
I can't wait to hear Warren explain how she will circumvent the Constitution and get a Tax on wealth implemented. That pays for the free college and the Green New Deal you know.
 
Of coarse, Biden could provide some entertainment too. It would be good to hear him expound on taking Trump out behind the woodshed in some debate. Yeah, that might be a highlight.
 
I can't wait to hear Warren explain how she will circumvent the Constitution and get a Tax on wealth implemented. That pays for the free college and the Green New Deal you know.

lol, as if this president follows the constitution. All Warren would have to do is execute an executive order or call it a national emergency right? :biglaugh:
 
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Agreed and so stipulated.



There are no rails in OT discussions.

Will respond to the rest of your post later, perhaps, got to work now.

barfo
Oh come on, what's more important, stupid work or important bullshitting in here?
 
I'm supposed to be writing documentation today and tomorrow, documentation writing is boring lol.
I use to like writing that kind of stuff.
Here's a hint:
Good, clear, concise writing will win you good raises especially for those who know technical writing and good grammar.
I use to have to write these weekly reports on engineering problems I was working on. My boss told us to spend 15 minutes a week or less in writing these reports. I got average raises. Then, I began spending two to three hours writing my reports. The reports got circulated among different managers and different engineering groups. A side benefit, arguably the main benefit was that it gave me the opportunity to think more deeply about each problem and I would either solve the problem right there or get a good start on a solution. Also, other people would call me with helpful suggestions. The result? Great raises and lots of work accomplished, some of it quite difficult. What a feeling of satisfaction.
So, I guess I'm suggesting that you pour yourself into your work and put this aside, at least for the time being.
Now, get out there and make money so you can support my social security and private and government pensions, not to mention boosting my stock investments.
 
I use to like writing that kind of stuff.
Here's a hint:
Good, clear, concise writing will win you good raises especially for those who know technical writing and good grammar.
I use to have to write these weekly reports on engineering problems I was working on. My boss told us to spend 15 minutes a week or less in writing these reports. I got average raises. Then, I began spending two to three hours writing my reports. The reports got circulated among different managers and different engineering groups. A side benefit, arguably the main benefit was that it gave me the opportunity to think more deeply about each problem and I would either solve the problem right there or get a good start on a solution. Also, other people would call me with helpful suggestions. The result? Great raises and lots of work accomplished, some of it quite difficult. What a feeling of satisfaction.
So, I guess I'm suggesting that you pour yourself into your work and put this aside, at least for the time being.
Now, get out there and make money so you can support my social security and private and government pensions, not to mention boosting my stock investments.

The money isn't that interesting to me because I enjoy the work (except this part I guess heh) as long as my wife and kids are ok and fed clothed, etc I'm good. But, this time, I'll do it for you! :)

For the record sometimes writing documentation is a joy, I've been kind of dreading this particular part because I have a very limited amount of space that I need to shove a lot of information into and trying to make it coherent but contrite poses an interesting challenge. I'll go dig into for your financial gain! heh.
 
Oh come on, what's more important, stupid work or important bullshitting in here?

Bullshitting in here, obviously. Come on, you knew the answer to that one!

Work is ideally something to be done only when there are no more posts here to respond to.

barfo
 
I'm supposed to be writing documentation today and tomorrow, documentation writing is boring lol.

You do not know boredom in writing until you've written a 50 page land use application addressing how your project complies with each and every land use regulation and comprehensive plan policy that could remotely be applicable to it.
 
You do not know boredom in writing until you've written a 50 page land use application addressing how your project complies with each and every land use regulation and comprehensive plan policy that could remotely be applicable to it.

You gotta spice it up with a little sex.

She looked at regulation 34.232A with half-closed eyes. A very muscular regulation, she thought, as her hand drifted towards her lap to gently caress her copy of the applicable wetlands policy...

barfo
 
You gotta spice it up with a little sex.

She looked at regulation 34.232A with half-closed eyes. A very muscular regulation, she thought, as her hand drifted towards her lap to gently caress her copy of the applicable wetlands policy...

barfo

I'm nearing retirement. I may try that on one of my applications just to see if anyone is actually paying attention.
 
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