Game Thread 2023-24 GAME #43 - BLAZERS @ THUNDER - JANUARY 23, 2024 - TUESDAY - 5:00 PM PST - ROOT

[RR7]

A contrarian opinion on a horse shit call that went against the Blazers?!! Id have never predicted that one. LoL

 

[Cugel]

I think this is a WILD take.

1. Brogdon said he was calling timeout (along with the other coaches) and I can't see any reason why he'd lie about this. Guy is mild mannered, will be on another team in a few weeks, and knows winning isn't important to this team.
2. You don't have to see someone to call a timeout. There is only one person in the arena who can be 5-10ft away from him on the sideline, and it's Billups. After the double dribble he could blow the whistle, look to his right, and confirm that it was indeed Billups screaming at him, and award the timeout
3. You can't expect a potential receiptent of a pass to look away from the ball to attemp to find a ref and call timeout. So many things can go wrong in that situation.
4. One of the refs had the PERECT line of sight to Billups
5. Kennedy implying the ref needs to see the play to completion before calling a timeout is not accurate at all.

View attachment 62287

How could that ref not see CB? I daresay it's physically impossible not to have noticed CB.

 

[Tince]

How could that ref not see CB? I daresay it's physically impossible not to have noticed CB.

I'm guessing Wiz is going to say the one ref was too close, one ref was too far, and Bill Kennedy doesn't believe in awarding a timeout when someone is being trapped.

 

[RR7]

I'm guessing Wiz is going to say the one ref was too close, one ref was too far, and Bill Kennedy doesn't believe in awarding a timeout when someone is being trapped.

Or...
What's the general consensus here? Cool, I'll take the opposite, as long as it's against the Blazers

 

[illmatic99]

WOW

wont result in shit but it's the principle. i applaud this

 

[wizenheimer]

Or...
What's the general consensus here? Cool, I'll take the opposite, as long as it's against the Blazers

gfy

 

[Tince]

@Natebishop3

You've said a never take a firm stance on an issue. Here's the one time I do!

 

[TBpup]

Blazers can file all they want. This is the same NBA that would have you believe that Tim Donaghy acted completely alone and every other referee was above reproach and never involved.

Sadly, We all KNOW that situation would NEVER happen to a large market team like the Lakers or Celtics or a star driven team like the Warriors from just a few years ago.

 

[wizenheimer]

I'm guessing Wiz is going to say the one ref was too close, one ref was too far, and Bill Kennedy doesn't believe in awarding a timeout when someone is being trapped.

what I said was I didn't see if Brogdon was calling a timeout or not. If he said he did that's a different matter. The replay I saw didn't have that angle. I also said I found it hard to find a lot of room to debate the points Kennedy made. Obviously he's going to take the side of his crew

but I'm curious what you attribute this situation to. Was it just a blown call? or were the officials out to screw Portland and award OKC the win? Did they pre-determine they were not going to give Portland a time out?

my theoretical rule take about being trapped was a bad one; I'll grant that. And I'd also suggest the 2nd T on Billups didn't need to be called unless he went overboard on insult profanity. But if he was called for something he said to the official in his rant, why didn't the officials hear him calling a time out?

 

[B-Roy]

 

[Tince]

what I said was I didn't see if Brogdon was calling a timeout or not. If he said he did that's a different matter. The replay I saw didn't have that angle. I also said I found it hard to find a lot of room to debate the points Kennedy made. Obviously he's going to take the side of his crew

but I'm curious what you attribute this situation to. Was it just a blown call? or were the officials out to screw Portland and award OKC the win? Did they pre-determine they were not going to give Portland a time out?

my theoretical rule take about being trapped was a bad one; I'll grant that. And I'd also suggest the 2nd T on Billups didn't need to be called unless he went overboard on insult profanity. But if he was called for something he said to the official in his rant, why didn't the officials hear him calling a time out?

I have no reason to think the refs were out to screw the Blazers. I think they missed the foul call, missed the travel call, got the first tech right, should've walked away and given Billups a way longer leash on the second. I think Kennedy giving an inaccurate and incomplete answer to the question, while expected, doesn't justify it.

Your post said you didn't feel anything Kennedy said was debatable, despite him implying a ref can't hear 5ft from from him when watching a double team, and attempted to justify it by saying that he is to "referee the play to completion". The play SHOULD have been completed by the calling of the time out. We see timeouts called mid-play all the time, so the theory of "referee the play to completion" is total garbage.

I also want to be clear: It's good we lost, so I'm not even emotional about that. However, the entire possession was clearly botched, and I don't know how anyone who's watched the replays could say otherwise.

PS- I'm giving you crap, but it's not serious... even though I think you're way off base on this one!

 

[Cugel]

As CB said, the refs KNOW a t/o is highly, highly likely to be called in this sort of situation. Just look for it next time perhaps. smh

 

[Tince]

Everyone knows the Blazers got screwed, but there is no way they'll win this. It would open up a can of worms for it to happen more often, and the league doesn't want that.

 

[wizenheimer]

I have no reason to think the refs were out to screw the Blazers. I think they missed the foul call, missed the travel call, got the first tech right, should've walked away and given Billups a way longer leash on the second. I think Kennedy giving an inaccurate and incomplete answer to the question, while expected, doesn't justify it.

Your post said you didn't feel anything Kennedy said was debatable, despite him implying a ref can't hear 5ft from from him when watching a double team, and attempted to justify it by saying that he is to "referee the play to completion". The play SHOULD have been completed by the calling of the time out. We see timeouts called mid-play all the time, so the theory of "referee the play to completion" is total garbage.

I also want to be clear: It's good we lost, so I'm not even emotional about that. However, the entire possession was clearly botched, and I don't know how anyone who's watched the replays could say otherwise.

ok...that's reasonable

 

[Everything Beagle]

Usually, I'd expect the head official to come running in with his whistle blaring, conference with his crew and come out and give Portland the timeout.

(imho) Reffing has been going downhill steadily since the early 90s; I'm not surprised they have been PAC-10 bad this year. A bold new era in simply not caring to know how the game is played.

 

[BBert]

Here is the clip. To me, it looks like Brogdon did in fact brain fart and double dribble. He should have called a time out. It seems Chauncy was trying to call a time out, but can't see quite when. Looks like it may have been right as Brogdon started his double dribble. Not a very vet move by Brogdon.

Brogdon DID call a time out. He started calling for a timeout the moment he was doubled. So did Chauncey.

 

[BBert]

Yes, he was trying to call a timeout at the moment just before Brogdon's dribble hit the floor.

Brogdon turned and called timeout the instant he was trapped.

 

[MickZagger]

If Chauncey wasn't throwing bones at the refs, the Thunder would have been down 1 with tremendous pressure to score the ball. While the Blazers weren't granted a timeout because the refs suck, those technical FT's cost Portland this game. OKC milked the clock in a tie game and had all the pressure lifted to drain a go ahead bucket.

I'm glad Billups went after the crooked officiating, but maybe next time wail on those striped shirt chumps in the 3rd or something, not with seconds to spare in a hard fought matchup.

Also, we had a foul to give that we didn’t use when Williams hit that jumper

 

[BlazerBeav]

gfy

Nah, you're in the wrong and clearly being contrarian - even all the OKC fans on reddit acknowledge they got handed the game.

 

[Tince]

The number of people on Twitter that seem to think you are required to make a physical "T" signal using both hands to be awarded a timeout has been my biggest surprise of the night.

 

[Tince]

Scoot has a great attitude that many should follow!

 

[beast blazer]

Yeah. Just not a good one. Or one he took.

In his last 7 years, 16.1% of his shots were from 10-19 feet, and he made 38.6% of those.

If you're arguing that Ayton has a mid range shot and Whiteside did not, Whiteside's career shooting % from 16 to 3pt is literally 1% less than Aytons.

He shot 41% from midrange when he was in Portland, which is about the league average.

 

[Mr. Robot]

wasnt able to watch the game (early shift 6:00 am), but i saw that scoot had solid game by box score, but what about eye test

also it seems that team really wanted to win this game, they played with poise after the embarrassment last time

 

[PCmor7]

This is a horse bleep explanation.

1. Saying the refs right there can't hear because the play is happening in front of him is crap.
2. Implying the ref can't call a timeout until the play he's watching is complete is totally bogus
3. Leaving out what the other two refs are doing during the entire play was clearly intentional because they're the ones who should be aware of the situation as well.

Oh, come on, Tince. This is the first time a situation ever happened in an NBA game. The league couldn't have foreseen a close game with such a loud crowd and the possibility that a halfcourt trap might cause one of the teams to call timeout.

It was such an extraordinary situation. I'm sure the league will take steps to ensure it never happens again.

</sarcasm>

 

[PCmor7]

If you're arguing that Ayton has a mid range shot and Whiteside did not, Whiteside's career shooting % from 16 to 3pt is literally 1% less than Aytons.

He shot 41% from midrange when he was in Portland, which is about the league average.

He was here for one year, and he took 110 shots from that range out of more than 700 attempts playing 30 minutes/game.

The sample size there is so small, especially in regard to his entire career that it's almost microscopic.

Ayton has as many shots from that distance already this year than Whiteside had in a whole season with the Blazers. It's a staple of the Ayton's game, not Whiteside's.

And Ayton is shooting more than 43% from 10-19 feet this year, which is significantly better than Whiteside both in his one year with the Blazers and than his career as a whole.

 

[e_blazer]

So here’s the refs’ explanation:

According to a pool report interview, crew chief Bill Kennedy said Billups was not granted a timeout because the referee was focused on the play in front of him, making it "difficult" for him to hear and see Billups' request.

The referee in the slot position was refereeing the double-team that was right in front of him, which makes it difficult for, No. 1, to hear and, No. 2, to see a coach request a timeout behind him," Kennedy said. "He is taught to referee the play until completion, which a double dribble happens, and he correctly calls the double dribble and then pursuant [to that] the technical fouls come forward.

So, let me get this straight. Kennedy is saying only this ref “in the slot position” has the ability and/or responsibility to hear or see a coach call a time out in a situation where it would be expected to be called approximately 99.9% of the time? He’s also saying that that ref is so zoned in on the play that he failed to notice the player being trapped call for a time out (which, again, would be expected 99.9% of the time). The ref is also so intent on reffing that play to its conclusion that he fails to see Malcolm being fouled with a hit to the face that draws blood, which -had he called it - would have ended the play before the double dribble. And then, with Chauncey reasonably concluding that this young ref is both deaf and blind, he reaches out for his elbow to get his attention and draws an “appropriate” tech. Yeah, great job refs.

 

[kjironman1]

Is part of Scoot's problem at the rim that he just doesn't have enough lift?

This has been discussed a couple times elsewhere. He seems to have a jump that is more broad than high.

 

[beast blazer]

He was here for one year, and he took 110 shots from that range out of more than 700 attempts playing 30 minutes/game.

The sample size there is so small, especially in regard to his entire career that it's almost microscopic.

Ayton has as many shots from that distance already this year than Whiteside had in a whole season with the Blazers. It's a staple of the Ayton's game, not Whiteside's.

And Ayton is shooting more than 43% from 10-19 feet this year, which is significantly better than Whiteside both in his one year with the Blazers and than his career as a whole.

To say Whiteside had "no mid range shot" and Ayton has a good one when Ayton shoots 1% better from 16 to 3 is stupid. The league average on these mid range shots is around 40%. I never said whiteside had a "good" mid range shot, but he clearly has one.

Whiteside


Ayton

 

[Phatguysrule]

Blazers can file all they want. This is the same NBA that would have you believe that Tim Donaghy acted completely alone and every other referee was above reproach and never involved.

Sadly, We all KNOW that situation would NEVER happen to a large market team like the Lakers or Celtics or a star driven team like the Warriors from just a few years ago.

Thing is, it would be so simple to review. There was a stoppage. Just go look at the replay, see that he obviously called timeout, then Brogdon was fouled, then he double dribbled. Then just make things right before moving on.

This kind of thing is so easily avoidable. I'm sure the rules don't allow it, but there should be a way to get this right in the game with today's technology.

 

[beast blazer]

So here’s the refs’ explanation:



So, let me get this straight. Kennedy is saying only this ref “in the slot position” has the ability and/or responsibility to hear or see a coach call a time out in a situation where it would be expected to be called approximately 99.9% of the time? He’s also saying that that ref is so zoned in on the play that he failed to notice the player being trapped call for a time out (which, again, would be expected 99.9% of the time). The ref is also so intent on reffing that play to its conclusion that he fails to see Malcolm being fouled with a hit to the face that draws blood, which -had he called it - would have ended the play before the double dribble. And then, with Chauncey reasonably concluding that this young ref is both deaf and blind, he reaches out for his elbow to get his attention and draws an “appropriate” tech. Yeah, great job refs.

I think I've normally seen the player call the time out in that situation to be fair...