Exclusive All Things Scoot (3 Viewers)

[Natebishop3]

So you want us to move Ant for peanuts too?

Simons has value as a bench player. I guess I don't understand why we wouldn't have him embrace that role now. That's where most teams would probably want to play him.

Sharpe is a shooting guard. That's his natural position and that's where he's going to reach his full potential. That's where I want to see him.

We have so many young players now, and we will probably add 2-3 more after we trade Dame.

 

[wizenheimer]

Scoot and Sharpe are terrible defensively and will be for the near future.

Ant was quite a bit worse than Sharpe defensively last season; and it was Ant's 5th season. He sucks at defense

defensive rating:

Greg Brown III 114
Jusuf Nurkić 114
Drew Eubanks 115
Gary Payton II 116
Matisse Thybulle 116
Justise Winslow 118
Josh Hart 118
Keon Johnson 119
Cam Reddish 119
Trendon Watford 119
Jabari Walker 120
Nassir Little 120
Jerami Grant 120
Shaedon Sharpe 121
Damian Lillard 121
Ryan Arcidiacono 122
Anfernee Simons 123

DBPM:

Gary Payton II 1.4
Matisse Thybulle 1.1
Drew Eubanks 0.9
Josh Hart 0.7
Jusuf Nurkić 0.7
Justise Winslow 0.6
Greg Brown III 0.0
Trendon Watford -0.4
John Butler -0.8
Damian Lillard -1.2
Jerami Grant -1.4
Nassir Little -1.4
Cam Reddish -1.4
Keon Johnson -1.6
Shaedon Sharpe -2.0
Jabari Walker -2.1
Skylar Mays -2.1
Ryan Arcidiacono -2.4
Anfernee Simons -2.5
Kevin Knox -2.7

Ant fans wanting a 3 guard rotation of Ant/Scoot/Sharpe, or even worse, to start Sharpe out of position at SF to make room for Ant, have learned nothing from the last 8 seasons of the Blazers. If Ant is here next season, Chauncey will start him. That's next to certain. So either Scoot sits or Sharpe plays out of position....for chrissakes, will the Blazers ever logically balance the fucking roster?

 

[Everything Beagle]

Yeah.... but that was when Ant was the point guard. The lead guard. The main dude.

I don't want that. I want Scoot and Shae. Let the era of the Slash Bros begin!

Slash Bros will only score two points per amazing dunk though. Ant being available as a long bomber, hopefully learning to play off the ball a bit? Such growth ups his trade value if nothing else!

I expect Ant won't be here long unless things really start clicking. So don't worry. The kids are young and we have time.

 

[Everything Beagle]

Ant fans wanting a 3 guard rotation of Ant/Scoot/Sharpe, or even worse, to start Sharpe out of position at SF to make room for Ant, have learned nothing from the last 8 seasons of the Blazers. If Ant is here next season, Chauncey will start him. That's next to certain. So either Scoot sits or Sharpe plays out of position....for chrissakes, will the Blazers ever logically balance the fucking roster?

Oh no, our draft position will only improve the more we lose! Whatever will we do?! This must be fixed immediately!

First, let's trade dame or sit him or whatever comes of that. Then, let's see if these kids even win 20 by February. Then we can trade guys. Keeping Ant helps with the CBA floor anyway; it might be why we're planning on keeping him.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Slash Bros will only score two points per amazing dunk though. Ant being available as a long bomber, hopefully learning to play off the ball a bit? Such growth ups his trade value if nothing else!

I expect Ant won't be here long unless things really start clicking. So don't worry. The kids are young and we have time.

Sharpe shot .360 from 3

 

[Everything Beagle]

Sharpe shot .360 from 3

And Ant shot .387 from three on nearly twice as many attempts.

A three man spread is much more effective if your opponent doesn't know what two of them are there to do.

Again, if it doesn't work, we have wasted nothing. Losses are good, time is cheap at 19 years old, and Ant's trade value is set. If you don't like how he looks, ship him later. But complaining now about how Ant will affect the team is silly. We don't have a team worth this much micromanaging.

 

[Natebishop3]

Sharpe shot .360 from 3

He hurt his hand in November and that massively tanked his percentages in December. It took a while for him to recover from that.

 

[illmatic99]

Ant was quite a bit worse than Sharpe defensively last season; and it was Ant's 5th season. He sucks at defense

defensive rating:

Greg Brown III 114
Jusuf Nurkić 114
Drew Eubanks 115
Gary Payton II 116
Matisse Thybulle 116
Justise Winslow 118
Josh Hart 118
Keon Johnson 119
Cam Reddish 119
Trendon Watford 119
Jabari Walker 120
Nassir Little 120
Jerami Grant 120
Shaedon Sharpe 121
Damian Lillard 121
Ryan Arcidiacono 122
Anfernee Simons 123

DBPM:

Gary Payton II 1.4
Matisse Thybulle 1.1
Drew Eubanks 0.9
Josh Hart 0.7
Jusuf Nurkić 0.7
Justise Winslow 0.6
Greg Brown III 0.0
Trendon Watford -0.4
John Butler -0.8
Damian Lillard -1.2
Jerami Grant -1.4
Nassir Little -1.4
Cam Reddish -1.4
Keon Johnson -1.6
Shaedon Sharpe -2.0
Jabari Walker -2.1
Skylar Mays -2.1
Ryan Arcidiacono -2.4
Anfernee Simons -2.5
Kevin Knox -2.7

Ant fans wanting a 3 guard rotation of Ant/Scoot/Sharpe, or even worse, to start Sharpe out of position at SF to make room for Ant, have learned nothing from the last 8 seasons of the Blazers. If Ant is here next season, Chauncey will start him. That's next to certain. So either Scoot sits or Sharpe plays out of position....for chrissakes, will the Blazers ever logically balance the fucking roster?

I didnt say a single word about Ant. Sheesh

 

[wizenheimer]

Oh no, our draft position will only improve the more we lose! Whatever will we do?! This must be fixed immediately!.

ok...honest appraisal: keep Ant around so the Blazers will lose more games!

 

[illmatic99]

And Ant shot .387 from three on nearly twice as many attempts.

A three man spread is much more effective if your opponent doesn't know what two of them are there to do.

Again, if it doesn't work, we have wasted nothing. Losses are good, time is cheap at 19 years old, and Ant's trade value is set. If you don't like how he looks, ship him later. But complaining now about how Ant will affect the team is silly. We don't have a team worth this much micromanaging.

Exactly. Watch the young guys go off in losing 60 games. That is the goal for the season and see where we stand after next draft. Plenty of touches and minutes for all three guys w/o Dame.

 

[wizenheimer]

I didnt say a single word about Ant. Sheesh

I filled in your blanks

 

[Natebishop3]

I didnt say a single word about Ant. Sheesh

That's true.... in that post. But he was just responding to your post, which was responding to my post

 

[Predator]

I want to be evaluating Murray and Rupert.

Giving Sharpe minutes at the 3 seemingly hinders that plan.

So, see ya Ant.

 

[HailBlazers]

I want to be evaluating Murray and Rupert.

Giving Sharpe minutes at the 3 seemingly hinders that plan.

So, see ya Ant.

We aren't trading Ant. His value is low right now and he's our "veteran."

 

[Natebishop3]

We aren't trading Ant. His value is low right now and he's our "veteran."

I value Thybulle as a veteran much much more than I value Ant.

 

[Predator]

We aren't trading Ant. His value is low right now and he's our "veteran."

I know we aren't going to do it, but we should do it.

But I also really doubt he'll improve his value.

 

[BrianFromWA]

And hopefully not getting into soap operas involving teammates and their wives, too.

I mean, you have to have some willpower to not risk it all for mid-90s Toni Braxton

 

[andalusian]

I know we aren't going to do it, but we should do it.

But I also really doubt he'll improve his value.

If Ant can recover his close to 50% 3P C&S statistics, he become an intriguing option for any playoffs team that want a relief valve next to whoever their stars are.

That's exactly why the Blazers need to start him.

 

[Predator]

If Ant can recover his close to 50% 3P C&S statistics, he become an intriguing option for any playoffs team that want a relief valve next to whoever their stars are.

That's exactly why the Blazers need to start him.

I didn't say he couldn't increase value, just that I don't think he will. I think everyone knows he can shoot, so even if he proves to be a lights-out shooter, I don't think that remedies other teams' concerns for him.

• Really poor AST/TO ratio
• Really, really poor defensively

And I'm skeptical that GMs will suddenly value him more for putting up empty stats on high usage on a trash-ass team.

 

[andalusian]

I didn't say he couldn't increase value, just that I don't think he will. I think everyone knows he can shoot, so even if he proves to be a lights-out shooter, I don't think that remedies other teams' concerns for him.

• Really poor AST/TO ratio
• Really, really poor defensively

And I'm skeptical that GMs will suddenly value him more for putting up empty stats on high usage on a trash-ass team.

If a team believes they can be contenders instead of 1st or 2nd round fodder and the difference is a deadly C&S 3P shooter, he becomes attractive.

Believing he is or not going to increase his value does not change the fact that if you do not try to increase his value, he is on the roster for the next 2 years at least.

While Ant has been in the league for a while, he was really a featured player for 2 years - and in one of them, his C&S stats have taken a hit when playing next to Dame. You want to reinforce that issue if you think you need to trade him and get value back.

 

[maxiep]

On this forum, familiarity really does breed contempt. I hope in a few years, we're not ripping Scoot and Shae to shreds.

 

[Predator]

If a team believes they can be contenders instead of 1st or 2nd round fodder and the difference is a deadly C&S 3P shooter, he becomes attractive.

Believing he is or not going to increase his value does not change the fact that if you do not try to increase his value, he is on the roster for the next 2 years at least.

While Ant has been in the league for a while, he was really a featured player for 2 years - and in one of them, his C&S stats have taken a hit when playing next to Dame. You want to reinforce that issue if you think you need to trade him and get value back.

He doesn't have to be on the roster "for the next 2 years at least" if you're willing to cut bait. It's essentially the sunk-cost fallacy... Unless you truly believe he's going to raise his value. And he might. And as you elude to, we might be able to get more from him at a trade deadline when some desperate contender is willing to overpay for him. I would still say it's more beneficial to get Scoot / Sharpe / Rupert and Murray as many minutes as possible, but I can see why some (or many) would disagree with that position.

 

[wizenheimer]

On this forum, familiarity really does breed contempt. I hope in a few years, we're not ripping Scoot and Shae to shreds.

you're right...in this forum, for this team, there is a lot of familiarity with undersized SG's who are way to small to play wing and who are shitty at defense, and never improve at it no matter how much their fans say they can. I wouldn't call it contempt though, I'd just call it a strong desire to shitcan the experiment at the end of the 8th season it failed, instead of rebooting it for a 9th season when Sharpe and Scoot are on the roster. A desire to see Portland field a balanced roster with a logical rotation that fits the current NBA and stop playing guys out of position so the team can shove a square peg into a round hole elsewhere

 

[andalusian]

He doesn't have to be on the roster "for the next 2 years at least" if you're willing to cut bait. It's essentially the sunk-cost fallacy... Unless you truly believe he's going to raise his value. And he might. And as you elude to, we might be able to get more from him at a trade deadline when some desperate contender is willing to overpay for him. I would still say it's more beneficial to get Scoot / Sharpe / Rupert and Murray as many minutes as possible, but I can see why some (or many) would disagree with that position.

Sorry, you can't tell me he is not good enough to have no trade value and not having him on the roster or having other equally bad crap is not functionally the same. Ant has won the right to be a starter at least at the start of next year - and it actually is beneficial for the Blazers as he might increase his trade value or prove that he is worth keeping around next to Shae / Scoot. If it does not, it changes nothing, he (or equally bad stuff on the same salary scale) would be on the roster for the next 2+ years.

 

[Predator]

Sorry, you can't tell me he is not good enough to have no trade value and not having him on the roster or having other equally bad crap is not functionally the same. Ant has won the right to be a starter at least at the start of next year - and it actually is beneficial for the Blazers as he might increase his trade value or prove that he is worth keeping around next to Shae / Scoot. If it does not, it changes nothing, he (or equally bad stuff on the same salary scale) would be on the roster for the next 2+ years.

This is where we fundamentally disagree.

1) We lose out on half a season of development for Scoot, Sharpe, Rupert, and Murray.

2) All of the above players are going to be playing significant minutes out of position, if at all, assuming Simons is on this roster.

This means we lose out on development AND the development we do get them is going to be in a role that most likely isn't suitable for them moving forward.

Additionally, I don't care what we get back in return. FRP, SRP, or an equivalent player, or a couple of lesser players, expiring contract. As long as they aren't under 6'6 and free up minutes for our youth to play (in their actual positions)... I'm all for it.

And like I said, if he increases his value from 1FRP to 2FRP, to me, that's still not worth it. If he becomes an all-star, sure, I'd regret the move.

And under no circumstances do I want to keep Ant, Shaedon, and Scoot long-term. 3 no-defense guards and 2 playing out of position? Lol, what are we doing? Did we learn nothing in the last decade?

 

[andalusian]

And like I said, if he increases his value from 1FRP to 2FRP, to me, that's still not worth it. If he becomes an all-star, sure, I'd regret the move.

Fair enough. I hope the FO is closer to my opinion than yours, but time will tell.

FWIW, I don't think Sharpe at the #2 or #3 position changes anything for his development, frankly, it might actually help him to play against bigger, stronger player - because if he later moves to the #2, it might be easier for him. Also I don't think Scoot plays anything other than 1 if Ant plays or not, so I do not think it matters much either. But, I think it is clear where we differ in opinion and that's good enough for me. Thank you for keeping the discussion civil and on point, does not always happen in the forum.

 

[blazerfan11]

Breakdown of some of Scoot's possessions.
Short video worth watching.

 

[Ha Seung-Boumtje-Boumjte]

This is where we fundamentally disagree.

And under no circumstances do I want to keep Ant, Shaedon, and Scoot long-term. 3 no-defense guards and 2 playing out of position? Lol, what are we doing? Did we learn nothing in the last decade?

How do you figure 2 would be playing out of position? There are 96 guard minutes? Why wouldn't at least two be playing their primary position the majority of the time?

Also, do we know that Scoot and Shaedon are going to be bad defenders? I don't think they profile that way, they're just green.

We've never seen Ant play with a real PG. He could look great with better catch and shoot opportunities than he's had with Dame.

While it's understandable to express strong resistance by saying "under NO CIRCUMSTANCES," it's pretty dramatic. I think it's important to remember that there are always circumstances in which a particular decision can be justified. This allows for a more comprehensive evaluation of a situation and the potential consequences of different choices.

In your example, if a circumstance existed where 100 children would perish in a bus crash off a cliff, it becomes evident that pursuing a different circumstance would be the morally correct choice. This demonstrates how circumstances can drastically influence the outcome of decisions.

Adopting a more open-minded approach enables us to adapt, learn, and make more informed choices. It fosters empathy, understanding, and the ability to see beyond our initial beliefs. Embracing the idea that circumstances matter encourages personal growth, enhances problem-solving skills, and promotes a more harmonious and compassionate society.

 

[Cugel]

Ant will lead the team in scoring, no question. 25 or so ppg.

 

[Hoopguru]

Ant will lead the team in scoring, no question. 25 or so ppg.

at what position?