OT Anti-Vaxxers

[SlyPokerDog]

Suggesting people’s basic freedoms be taken as punishment IS demanding. And it’s happening in this thread, this forum and everywhere else online.

Which basic freedoms?

 

[Orion Bailey]

Seatbelts can cause harm in car crashes but also seatbelts reduce deaths. Are we safer as a society because of seatbelts? Yes or No?

when you address your complete spin about nada proof ill then address this question. Until then im not taking you serious. Im just gonna assume its more spin.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

when you like a post like the one above that is so clearly inaccurate, I'm just gonna laugh at ya and not rake anything you say seriously. This os the crap i eluded to with you before about your likes. You want an up and up conversation with me? Then be up And up. Don't defend bullshit.
But im not gonna rant like i have in the past anymore. Im just gonna laugh at your obvious bias against me.

I did try to have an up and up conversation with you.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I replied to you that the death toll in this country is considerably higher then in previous years and said that there is a very strong possibility that when it's all said and done it is directly and indirectly due to covid and you want to blame things like car accidents and claim the death toll from covid are wrong and too high. Claims that when asked you can't support. So spinning and bullshitting didn't start with me.

It's going to take years to get an accurate overview of the toll this pandemic has had. Experts are saying that the true death rate of the pandemic has been underreported. This is based on the fact that the overall death toll in this country has taken a drastic increase in 2020. Much higher than the 520,000 deaths due to covid.

i never made a claim, i provided an example of how it may be manipulated. I didn't even know there was an actual such incident of a positive in a car death per say.

But hey??? Haahah really? Nadda? Not one?

........

 

[jonnyboy]

Which basic freedoms?

Travel/movement, assembly, preservation of a patient’s privacy.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I did try to have an up and up conversation with you.

sure you did...

secondly what you quoted was for rr7 not you.

but hey. Nadda ziltch??? Lol. That was up and up wasnt it?

sigh.....

 

[Orion Bailey]

LOLZ!

I have zero proof that anyone has died from Covid? Really? Zero proof. None? Nada?

I did try to have an up and up conversation with you.

that above is you being up and up huh???

ill have to remember that in the future....

 

[jonnyboy]

Which basic freedoms?

Refusing unwanted medical treatments.

 

[e_blazer]

But lots of people were complaining about Trumps advise on this. Whats that say?

Not sure what you’re trying to ask here. At the time when Trump was referring to reports on hydroxychloroquine, I was open to the idea that there could be some cross benefit in repurposing an existing drug for use in suppressing the virus. Scientific research soon proved that wasn’t the case. When Trump suggested injecting bleach or inserting ultraviolet lights into patients, I pretty much figured out that he’s an imbecile who would say anything that supported his political views that the virus would soon just “magically disappear”.

 

[e_blazer]

Refusing unwanted medical treatments.

Nobody is going to hold you down and jab a vaccine needle into your arm. You may find that certain things, like flying without need for a Covid test or being able to attend live sports events, open up to vaccinated people while those refusing vaccines don’t get the same privileges.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

And you're more likely to get struck by lightening then you are winning the grand prize in Megabucks lottery drawing.

But I'm not sure the data is there to support your claim.

Over 500,000 covid deaths in a year.

38,000 die from car crashes.

What we don't know yet is if covid has had a direct effect on car crashes during the past year. Which seems likely since so many people were staying home more last year and places like bars were closed in most of the country.

Wait, huh?

So it doesn't prove it? Can you prove these 520,000 were all direct covid deaths?

some double standards going on around here again. When it was brought up last year that many of the deaths being called covid related were very suspect, it was dismissed...

Im not saying I know what the truth is, but it cant be both ways. If the vaccine isnt a proven death, then the covid death count has not been proven either.

Its not about vaccine denial, Its about what people say is the truth, being suspect.

Trump was the leader of the country and had full access to the top medical and scientific experts in the world and often chose to ignore them.

Can you prove those 500K are all covid deaths?

And people got up in arms about it, even though they know they shouldnt listen to him. Seems silly to me.

Last I heard there average yearly death count in the United States was about 1 million more over the previous year, directly or indirectly covid seems to be the only factor that could explain this. When it's all said and done, when the final numbers are tabulated, when the dead people are dug out from NY nursing homes, the final death numbers are going to be higher vs lower than the 500,000 tally.

Huh? People got up in arms over some of the bullshit Trump spouted but you're saying the should have listened to him?

Fixed

because the death count is higher is zero evidence it was covid.

Guy dies in car accident. tested covid positive during autopsy.
Covid death....

not screaming but lets not play games bro.
You know full well most people here have been very down on anyone who shows hesitation or concern over getting a vaccine.
Lets keep it real.

Please show me verifiable proof of your example.

There isnt and thats my point. You are claiming nimbers you have zero proof of.

Yes because most of the arguments against getting the vaccine is based on the same old tired anti-vaxxer BS.

and that changes my point how?

LOLZ!

I have zero proof that anyone has died from Covid? Really? Zero proof. None? Nada?

Man stop spinning statements.


I said there is zero proof the death toll is accurate. There is proof that some people have died from covid.

stop bullshitting....

If you continually throw out fake news and fake science I'm not sure how polite you expect everyone to be in embracing or validating your arguments.

It's very simple, vaccines have been proven to reduce death and the severity of illness.

its also been proven the cause harm.

i don't need you to validate my argument. Im simply pointing out the foundation of yours is suspect.

Did i say zero proof anyone has died? I did not i said you have zero proof the numbers are accurate.
Would you please try to keep up?

I replied to you that the death toll in this country is considerably higher then in previous years and said that there is a very strong possibility that when it's all said and done it is directly and indirectly due to covid and you want to blame things like car accidents and claim the death toll from covid are wrong and too high. Claims that when asked you can't support. So spinning and bullshitting didn't start with me.

It's going to take years to get an accurate overview of the toll this pandemic has had. Experts are saying that the true death rate of the pandemic has been underreported. This is based on the fact that the overall death toll in this country has taken a drastic increase in 2020. Much higher than the 520,000 deaths due to covid.

Seatbelts can cause harm in car crashes but also seatbelts reduce deaths. Are we safer as a society because of seatbelts? Yes or No?

when you like a post like the one above that is so clearly inaccurate, I'm just gonna laugh at ya and not rake anything you say seriously. This os the crap i eluded to with you before about your likes. You want an up and up conversation with me? Then be up And up. Don't defend bullshit.
But im not gonna rant like i have in the past anymore. Im just gonna laugh at your obvious bias against me.

when you address your complete spin about nada proof ill then address this question. Until then im not taking you serious. Im just gonna assume its more spin.

I did try to have an up and up conversation with you.

i never made a claim, i provided an example of how it may be manipulated. I didn't even know there was an actual such incident of a positive in a car death per say.

But hey??? Haahah really? Nadda? Not one?

........

sure you did...

secondly what you quoted was for rr7 not you.

but hey. Nadda ziltch??? Lol. That was up and up wasnt it?

sigh.....

that above is you being up and up huh???

ill have to remember that in the future....

Here's our conversation. I think it was up and up. There was no bias against you and I'm not sure what "likes" have to do with this. You responded to posts of mine with unprovable examples and then said those examples being unprovable proves your non-verifiable claims.

Your statement was this, "You are claiming nimbers you have zero proof of."

You didn't say some of those numbers might not be accurate, you said zero. ZERO! If you acutely believe there is zero proof in the number of people who have died I really have nowhere else to go in this discussion with you. That isn't anything against you and yes, I think it's funny. Where do we go? If the same government agency that is reporting those numbers does that mean we also have zero proof that anyone has received a shot? Or zero proof that the shot even treats covid?

I'm sorry that me laughing at your zero numbers claim upset you but IMO it was a very inaccurate statement to make.

 

[jonnyboy]

Nobody is going to hold you down and jab a vaccine needle into your arm. You may find that certain things, like flying without need for a Covid test or being able to attend live sports events, open up to vaccinated people while those refusing vaccines don’t get the same privileges.

Traveling and public assembly are basic freedoms.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Nobody is going to hold you down and jab a vaccine needle into your arm.

For $500 I will!

Oh wait, I'll need $1,000 to drive to Wyoming to hold Jonnyboy down.

 

[RR7]

when you like a post like the one above that is so clearly inaccurate, I'm just gonna laugh at ya and not rake anything you say seriously. This os the crap i eluded to with you before about your likes. You want an up and up conversation with me? Then be up And up. Don't defend bullshit.
But im not gonna rant like i have in the past anymore. Im just gonna laugh at your obvious bias against me.

I really feel like the like button is a big area of contention with you, and something you should probably ignore. But, to each their own.

You could tell me what I'm spinning and you feel isn't a fair representation of what you wrote. You said there's zero proof the death toll is accurate. I guess I fail to see why 100% proof of those numbers needs to be there for you to believe it, but stories you otherwise find online about misrepresented counts are taken as fact. Or reasons to question the ultimate count. What we have is a fairly accurate representation of the death toll. I personally have zero proof it is 100% accurate. But what does that look like exactly? How do you get 100% proof of anything is my question? And because we have "zero proof" of the accuracy of the death count, is that reason to completely write it off? Asking sincerely. How can you every believe anything, then, that you haven't seen with your own eyes or counted yourself?

 

[RR7]

Traveling and public assembly are basic freedoms.

A private sporting event requiring vaccines isn't a violation of your 1st amendment right to peaceably assemble. Sorry.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Refusing unwanted medical treatments.

Actually the courts in Oregon have ruled that children can be removed from parents who refuse to allow there kids to have medical treatment based on religious beliefs. So there is case law that about unwanted medical treatments.

 

[Minstrel]

Traveling and public assembly are basic freedoms.

Traveling on planes and assembling for a sporting event aren't basic freedoms.

 

[e_blazer]

Traveling and public assembly are basic freedoms.

Not when they involve going on private property or a company’s airplanes.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Here's our conversation. I think it was up and up. There was no bias against you and I'm not sure what "likes" have to do with this. You responded to posts of mine with unprovable examples and then said those examples being unprovable proves your non-verifiable claims.

Your statement was this, "You are claiming nimbers you have zero proof of."

You didn't say some of those numbers might not be accurate, you said zero. ZERO! If you acutely believe there is zero proof in the number of people who have died I really have nowhere else to go in this discussion with you. That isn't anything against you and yes, I think it's funny. Where do we go? If the same government agency that is reporting those numbers does that mean we also have zero proof that anyone has received a shot? Or zero proof that the shot even treats covid?

I'm sorry that me laughing at your zero numbers claim upset you but IMO it was a very inaccurate statement to make.

you are so lost. What you arent seeing is who those posts were to.
The one a out being biased was to Rr7. Not you.
The one about likes was to rr7. Not you....

Im happy you can quote quotes. Can you remember who they were to?

 

[e_blazer]

For $500 I will!

Oh wait, I'll need $1,000 to drive to Wyoming to hold Jonnyboy down.

Well, for that kind of money I might join you. You hold him, I’ll stick him. We’re going to have to use the J&J to save on time and travel costs.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I really feel like the like button is a big area of contention with you, and something you should probably ignore. But, to each their own.

You could tell me what I'm spinning and you feel isn't a fair representation of what you wrote. You said there's zero proof the death toll is accurate. I guess I fail to see why 100% proof of those numbers needs to be there for you to believe it, but stories you otherwise find online about misrepresented counts are taken as fact. Or reasons to question the ultimate count. What we have is a fairly accurate representation of the death toll. I personally have zero proof it is 100% accurate. But what does that look like exactly? How do you get 100% proof of anything is my question? And because we have "zero proof" of the accuracy of the death count, is that reason to completely write it off? Asking sincerely. How can you every believe anything, then, that you haven't seen with your own eyes or counted yourself?

because when i make a statement and another person twists my words completely around and laughs at me over it and you like it, i then no longer take you seriously in that conversation.
Whether im taking the likes too seriously or not, you like a post that blatantly twisted my words around.
If you want me to believe you are impartial and actually want an up Nd up conversation from me, you will have to refrain from liking posts that are twisting my words around or im just not going to take you seriously.
Sorry.

 

[jonnyboy]

Not when they involve going on private property or a company’s airplanes.

And if a company wants to provide services to anyone and everyone without creating a new group of second class citizens, they should be able to also. That was my original point in the first place, let companies decide. It was in response to people suggesting the government needs to mandate these actions on behalf of private enterprise.

 

[e_blazer]

And if a company wants to provide services to anyone and everyone without creating a new group of second class citizens, they should be able to also. That was my original point in the first place, let companies decide. It was in response to people suggesting the government needs to mandate these actions on behalf of private enterprise.

I don't see a problem from a rights standpoint if the TSA issues safety protocols during a pandemic that are less restrictive to vaccinated people than to the unvaccinated. For example, if you have a digital passport that says you're vaccinated, you can go on a flight to Hawaii without the need for a negative Covid-19 test. Unvaccinated people still have the right to travel; you just have to prove that you're not a danger to the other people on the flight or in the area you're travelling to because of an active infection. I'd be okay with you being allowed into a sporting event without a vaccine as long as you agree to only breathe in.

 

[jonnyboy]

I don't see a problem from a rights standpoint if the TSA issues safety protocols during a pandemic that are less restrictive to vaccinated people than to the unvaccinated. For example, if you have a digital passport that says you're vaccinated, you can go on a flight to Hawaii without the need for a negative Covid-19 test. Unvaccinated people still have the right to travel; you just have to prove that you're not a danger to the other people on the flight or in the area you're travelling to because of an active infection. I'd be okay with you being allowed into a sporting event without a vaccine as long as you agree to only breathe in.

You lost me at TSA.

 

[crandc]

People who say freedom and my body my choice to support antivaxxers and refusing to wear masks because they have an absolute right to infect others are precisely the people who insist every woman be forced to carry every pregnancy to term under every circumstance.
If you breathe you are susceptible to Covid-19.

 

[jonnyboy]

People who say freedom and my body my choice to support antivaxxers and refusing to wear masks because they have an absolute right to infect others are precisely the people who insist every woman be forced to carry every pregnancy to term under every circumstance.
If you breathe you are susceptible to Covid-19.

Is it just easier for your brain to consolidate everyone you don’t like into one group that all believes the same shit? Are they all “precisely the same people”?

 

[riverman]

Is it just easier for your brain to consolidate everyone you don’t like into one group that all believes the same shit? Are they all “precisely the same people”?

I have no problem with all antivaxxers moving to Texas and building a wall around the whole state ...then breaking off from the States and becoming the Nation of Magaland...walk that walk .declare the Trumps the royal family and .elect Marjorie Taylor Green as your attorney general!
Then please stay the fuck out of Oregon!

 

[jonnyboy]

I have no problem with all antivaxxers moving to Texas and building a wall around the whole state ...then breaking off from the States and becoming the Nation of Magaland...walk that walk .declare the Trumps the royal family and .elect Marjorie Taylor Green as your attorney general!
Then please stay the fuck out of Oregon!

I’m seeing the green font, but not the sarcasm.

 

[HailBlazers]

Wear a mask daily. My children and self are vaccinated. But challenge the narrative and "you're an ANTI VAXXER?!" No I'm a hater of Political Science.

 

[riverman]

I’m seeing the green font, but not the sarcasm.

so you think I seriously want a Trump royal family and Marjorie Taylor Green political nation on our southern border eh? If that doesn't require a green font....wtf does?