Batum for #4 pick?

[Rastapopoulos]

Blame the scouting teams for those picks. Lillard, Leonard and McCollum have been excellent picks by the blazers in the lotto of past years, no?

Lillard, yes, although there's a strong chance that Drummond will end up being more valuable. CJ doesn't really fit with Lillard and is a very short 2G whose defense will never be great and Leonard also can't defend and isn't much of a rebounder. Meanwhile, we passed on Khris Middleton and Draymond Green for Meyers and we passed on Antetokounmpo and Gobert for CJ. Imagine if we had Green and Gobert now: we would be one of the best defensive teams in the league. And both players would help make up for Lillard's defensive shortcomings rather than compound them. And we only think CJ and Leonard are good because they looked good in that one series against Memphis. We were ready to trade them for very little for most of last year. (A reminder: for 3 games people were thinking that Dellevadova was actually a decent NBA player.)

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

Lillard, yes, although there's a strong chance that Drummond will end up being more valuable. CJ doesn't really fit with Lillard and is a very short 2G whose defense will never be great and Leonard also can't defend and isn't much of a rebounder. Meanwhile, we passed on Khris Middleton and Draymond Green for Meyers and we passed on Antetokounmpo and Gobert for CJ. Imagine if we had Green and Gobert now: we would be one of the best defensive teams in the league. And both players would help make up for Lillard's defensive shortcomings rather than compound them. And we only think CJ and Leonard are good because they looked good in that one series against Memphis. We were ready to trade them for very little for most of last year. (A reminder: for 3 games people were thinking that Dellevadova was actually a decent NBA player.)

CJ has been a guy that has just magically appeared in one playoff series, I was on the trade bandwagon all season for him, I like CJ's skillset for off the bench but if the right trade came along he can be dealt. My opinion of him changed when he proved himself against a great defensive team though.

Leonard on the other hand, I disagree. He showed improvement throughout the season, I only remember one bad game from him. If Stotts wasn't so tight with his rotations we would've seen more of him. His defense I thought looked great against the "best" center in the NBA. He isn't a rim protector like a Gobert but he doesn't commit dumb fouls and he plays straight up, offensively he is probably our most versatile frontcourt player right now, great shooter. After-all Meyers was a part of the .500/.400/.900 club this season.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

My opinion of him changed when he proved himself against a great defensive team though.

Let's remember that while Conley was healthy, CJ was effectively neutralized. It was only after Conley went down that CJ was being guarded by the Beno Udrihs of this world. Now, he did well with it, but it's misleading to say he did well against a good defender.

Leonard on the other hand, I disagree. He showed improvement throughout the season, I only remember one bad game from him. If Stotts wasn't so tight with his rotations we would've seen more of him. His defense I thought looked great against the "best" center in the NBA. He isn't a rim protector like a Gobert but he doesn't commit dumb fouls and he plays straight up, offensively he is probably our most versatile frontcourt player right now, great shooter. After-all Meyers was a part of the .500/.400/.900 club this season.

Meyers is large, so Gasol was not able just to brush him out of the way, but Gasol still went past him a number of times, which is like a glacier drifting past you. A good center is responsible for help defense for the whole team. Saying Leonard did well against his guy is not good enough.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

There seems to be a real pattern to draft picks under Olshey: all-O, no D.

 

[ThugginPaulyGAllen]

You're making an awfully good case as to why a team WOULD accept Batum for a top draft pick.

Apparently there is a very good chance that the pick will never turn into the proven player that Batum is, and he is still young.

 

[magnifier661]

Let's remember that while Conley was healthy, CJ was effectively neutralized. It was only after Conley went down that CJ was being guarded by the Beno Udrihs of this world. Now, he did well with it, but it's misleading to say he did well against a good defender.

The SG guards CJ. Conley was on Dame

Meyers is large, so Gasol was not able just to brush him out of the way, but Gasol still went past him a number of times, which is like a glacier drifting past you. A good center is responsible for help defense for the whole team. Saying Leonard did well against his guy is not good enough.

It's an argument, but I actually think Leonard will get much much better

 

[Sinobas]

Trading Batum for a draft pick would be a coup.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

You're making an awfully good case as to why a team WOULD accept Batum for a top draft pick.

Apparently there is a very good chance that the pick will never turn into the proven player that Batum is, and he is still young.

And on top of that, he names the only two guys in Leonard and cjs drafts that you could say are better. Not acknowledging that mostof the guys he named were drafted in the late 20's or 30's. Given where we picked and who was available, McCollum and Leonard look like great choices in comparison to the rest of the leagues selections

 

[Rastapopoulos]

You're making an awfully good case as to why a team WOULD accept Batum for a top draft pick.

Because they'd win the trade, and thus we'd be stupid to do it?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

And on top of that, he names the only two guys in Leonard and cjs drafts that you could say are better. Not acknowledging that mostof the guys he named were drafted in the late 20's or 30's. Given where we picked and who was available, McCollum and Leonard look like great choices in comparison to the rest of the leagues selections

Yay! We're the tallest midgets!

 

[Rastapopoulos]

There is not really anybody taken after meyers that would have been a better pick.

You mean apart from the guy who Magic Johnson just called "a top five player in this league" and whose insertion into the lineup turned Golden State into an unstoppable powerhouse? Or the guy who's about to get a max contract from the Bucks because he's the best in the league at DRPM at his position as well as being a great offensive player?

For Cj, maybe giannis or gobert, but give me a fucking break. Cj was a great pick at 10

Why was CJ a great pick? Because the draft sucked? Everything is relative, I suppose - a "great pick" in one draft would be sucky in another, then. I like him fine as a scorer off the bench, and maybe he could be a starter next to a big PG like John Wall, if he didn't have the rich man's version in Bradley Beal already.

Sure, I like CJ and I'm hoping he exceeds all expectations for an undersized, not particularly athletic, not great-defending SG. But maybe he already has, but notice we CRATERED when Wesley went down, so it's not like expanded minutes for him was good for the team.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Look, here's what I think:
there are likely to be very good players available at just about any position in the first round, and even early in the second. But NOBODY knows who those players are. At the same time, EVERYBODY thinks they do. So, of course cocky GMs are ready to trade proven players for the guy they've fallen in love with. And once in a while they'll be right (especially if they're the Spurs). But our front office hasn't exactly impressed recently. Our last great draft pick (not counting Lillard, because he wasn't that surprising at the place he was taken) was probably... Batum.

 

[BonesJones]

Look, here's what I think:
there are likely to be very good players available at just about any position in the first round, and even early in the second. But NOBODY knows who those players are. At the same time, EVERYBODY thinks they do. So, of course cocky GMs are ready to trade proven players for the guy they've fallen in love with. And once in a while they'll be right (especially if they're the Spurs). But our front office hasn't exactly impressed recently. Our last great draft pick (not counting Lillard, because he wasn't that surprising at the place he was taken) was probably... Batum.

it takes a long time for a guy to be deemed great, especially when after Batum we were picking in the late 20s. Lillard was a great pick because it could've been Harrison Barnes and it could've been TRob or Waiters if they fell

 

[jlprk]

Batum was always about potential. He rarely did much other than try to be a point guard. You can blame the presence of Aldridge hogging the ball and the coaches falling for it, or you can blame Batum for not scoring when he had the ball, which would have forced a diminution in Aldridge's role by the coaches.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg. Did A cause not-B, or did not-B cause A. (Hey, the letters agree with the names!)

Either way, Batum has peaked. What you see is what you get, and his trade worth will only diminish as the years go on.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

If we absolutely HAVE to trade for the #4 pick, then here's a trade I'd get behind (provided the player we take turns out good and isn't Porzingis):
Meyers and CJ for the #4. (They might even be good players for the triangle.)

If you want to clear out salary, send along Afflalo and/or Kaman.

If Olshey did that - trading 4 of "his guys" - I might actually respect him.

That way we have a chance of keeping the starters that were so awesome at the beginning of last season together and build up the bench, which should be the goal.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

If we absolutely HAVE to trade for the #4 pick, then here's a trade I'd get behind (provided the player we take turns out good and isn't Porzingis):
Meyers and CJ for the #4. (They might even be good players for the triangle.)

If you want to clear out salary, send along Afflalo and/or Kaman.

If Olshey did that - trading 4 of "his guys" - I might actually respect him.

That way we have a chance of keeping the starters that were so awesome at the beginning of last season together and build up the bench, which should be the goal.

So we trade away two guys that should be upper tier bench guys this year (on talking ball they said Cj and meyers as your 6 and 7 are likely championship caliber) for a possible bench piece? That's ridiculous.

Or, we can move batum or rolo and try to upgrade our starting lineup. Sounds better

 

[santeesioux]

Is Phil Jackson senile enough to do this? If it was the old Knicks regime I could definitely see it, and so far the Phil regime seems to be just as inept.

 

[OneLifeToLive]

Is Phil Jackson senile enough to do this? If it was the old Knicks regime I could definitely see it, and so far the Phil regime seems to be just as inept.

well, he was pissed that he was skunked out of a Executive of the year vote. Even 'Mitch' got one.

 

[riverman]

So we trade away two guys that should be upper tier bench guys this year (on talking ball they said Cj and meyers as your 6 and 7 are likely championship caliber) for a possible bench piece? That's ridiculous.

Or, we can move batum or rolo and try to upgrade our starting lineup. Sounds better

When CJ and Meyers win a playoff series I'll start thinking about championship caliber...as for now they haven't won shit yet.

 

[ThugginPaulyGAllen]

I was just saying that for all the people who think Batum.couldn't get us into the lottery, you.did a pretty good job illustrating why he should be able to.

Most teams would be dying to get a Batum in the top..5, let alone the top 10.

Why the Blazers do it? We need something not named Batum. It's a risk, but, I am firmly in the camp that with all teams healthy - we aren't winning as constructed and a lot of that is due to Batum's consistent disappearing acts in the playoffs.

 

[BigGameDamian]

I want to know more about the international fellow Mario Hezonja?

 

[riverman]

I want to know more about the international fellow Mario Hezonja?

Try Google or Youtube, they are amazing!

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Why the Blazers do it? We need something not named Batum. It's a risk, but, I am firmly in the camp that with all teams healthy - we aren't winning as constructed and a lot of that is due to Batum's consistent disappearing acts in the playoffs.

You do know that every Blazer starter looked worse in the playoffs, right? Because Memphis is a fucking good defensive team? Ironically, one player whose all-round numbers were better was Batum.

 

[blue9]

...we aren't winning as constructed and a lot of that is due to Batum's consistent disappearing acts in the playoffs.

Yeah, blame it on the 4th/5th scoring option rather than the guy the team is built around that's due to make $20M per season...who never shot above 38.2% in the POs this season.

 

[magnifier661]

Is Phil Jackson senile enough to do this? If it was the old Knicks regime I could definitely see it, and so far the Phil regime seems to be just as inept.

I actually think it would be a good move. He gets a seasoned player that works well with dominate scorers and they would still have another max to offer the robin player.

 

[oldmangrouch]

so, if Batum was in this draft, he would be picked ahead of Russell or Winslow?

To put it another way, you believe the 4th best player in this draft is inferior to Batum?

 

[magnifier661]

so, if Batum was in this draft, he would be picked ahead of Russell or Winslow?

To put it another way, you believe the 4th best player in this draft is inferior to Batum?

No, I believe NY wants to win now with Melo. They put too much money and cap space not to go "all in". Russell or Winslow will definitely be better players in the future, but too young to make a big difference now. They would do well with a team with more proven players to make up for their youth.

 

[oldmangrouch]

No, I believe NY wants to win now with Melo. They put too much money and cap space not to go "all in". Russell or Winslow will definitely be better players in the future, but too young to make a big difference now. They would do well with a team with more proven players to make up for their youth.

I agree with you. I was reacting to the argument that Batum is *too much* to give up for the #4.

 

[magnifier661]

I agree with you. I was reacting to the argument that Batum is *too much* to give up for the #4.

I believe Batum is really the player that we can live without IMO

 

[Rhal]

Id much rather keep Batum then trade him for the #4 pick if we keep LA. If we dont then id deal Batum for even less then the #4 pick. I love Batum and want to keep him but without LA im not willing to pay him after next year with the salary he will demand.