Batum for #4 pick?

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Stupidity adds another two to my ignore list...I just don't have time for stupid.
 
I think tbis is one of those instances where some people need to ask what they would be willing to trade for a role player like Batum. Start being realistic about this.
 
Mediocre Man said:
I think tbis is one of those instances where some people need to ask what they would be willing to trade for a role player like Batum. Start being realistic about this.
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role player or a two way player that can do a little bit of everything? Look at the hype around someone like Giannis. It's not just because he's young. Batum has a lot of value. I'm confident in saying that.
 
Mediocre Man said:
I think tbis is one of those instances where some people need to ask what they would be willing to trade for a role player like Batum. Start being realistic about this.
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This is why I believe NY would definitely trade their #4 for Batum and our pick. They get a player that can contribute NOW and plays well with players that dominate the ball. Also, NY is getting a ton of pressure to win now. Their fans are tired of being the laughing stock of the NBA. The draft pick won't give them wins now like Batum can, plus Melo is getting older. It's a win win situation for both teams, especially if Aldridge and Matthews maybe gone.

Oh P.S., they have enough cap space to absorb Batum's salary, while still having Max to offer another marquee free agent.
 
I think new York would move #4 for batum and crabbe. However, I think they would want us to take back Jose Calderon too though
 
JFizzleRaider said:
I think new York would move #4 for batum and crabbe. However, I think they would want us to take back Jose Calderon too though
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That wouldn't be such a bad idea really. Calderon would be an amazing back-up PG for us.

Although, we wouldn't really be able to offer max for another player if that happened, while keeping Aldridge, Matthews and Lopez.
 
ThugginPaulyGAllen said:
There is a thing called BBIQ, your coach shouldn't have to tell you what to do when you have a mismatch.

You shouldn't be shooting step back long 2's or 3s, or posting up to shoot a sfadeway long 2 on a PG or SG that has NO CHANCE at guarding your length. And lets not forget young BAtum being guarded by Steve Nash and not going in the post.

Also, when Kobe/any half decent veteran player with any history in the NBA of being above average/very good has the ball, they know what to do with it. You don't have to have your coach screaming "get in the post!' they just do it, because, y'know, matchups.

Hell even fucking Wesley MAtthews was bustin little bitches asses in the post this year and you didn't hear Stotts screaming "post him up, Wes!" Wes was just aware of his strengths.

So yes, Batum (is a pretty smart basketball player and knows matchups) knows when someone is smaller than him and he has the advantage and REFUSES to go into the post.

I believe that is "refusal".

Thanks.

Educate yourself before nitpicking, dude. Have a nice day, I'm done with you. Learn the game, then I'll enter into discourse with you once again.
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Hey, did you see that? For a second there, I thought the needle on my "Give-A-Fuck-What-You-Think-O-Meter" was going to move.

But it didn't.
 
JFizzleRaider said:
I think new York would move #4 for batum and crabbe. However, I think they would want us to take back Jose Calderon too though
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I wouldn't mind taking back Jose - solves the back-up PG problem. And I agree that including #23 with Nic it too steep a price to pay (I feel like you're implying this by subbing Crabbe for the #23).

Trading Nic would be bittersweet - he had a bad year, but he's still a very good player that's able to fulfill his role better than most. OTOH, I think it would mean that LMA doesn't come back - which would make trading Nic worth it.
 
riverman said:
Larry Sanders seemed to find Batum in the post when he knocked him for an 8 ft horizontal fall that caused his wrist to hurt the rest of the season. Nico got a lot of rebounds in the paint. Yeah he had a poor shooting year but I think you're stretchin' the point beyond reasonable facts Thuggin'. Wes blew his share of plays as did a lot of players. Even in the championship game, Curry had wide open lanes and settled for long jumpers. It's one thing to not like a player but another to single out a random mistake and make it the guy's identity. Guys who are injured stay in the game by not bangin' in the post and we had plenty of guys injured. Lamarcus couldn't post up as often with a dangling thumb either. It's called injuries. Watch Nico's exit interview and his BBIQ was humble and self critical. He knows he had a bad year. It's not his body of work though, I've watched him since we drafted him. Wes bricked a ton of layups over the last few seasons although he improved last year. Nic fed Rolo in the post with great success.
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He has refused to go in the post for MULTIPLE years and in another post I laid out just how much worse he has been in EVERY post season.

Also, he doesn't have to 'bang' in the post when a PG who is a half foot shorter and at least 15 lbs lighter than him. Kobe doesn't BANG in the post - angles, creating space with footwork.

I'm not saying Batum is a horrific player.
 
riverman said:
Larry Sanders seemed to find Batum in the post when he knocked him for an 8 ft horizontal fall that caused his wrist to hurt the rest of the season. Nico got a lot of rebounds in the paint. Yeah he had a poor shooting year but I think you're stretchin' the point beyond reasonable facts Thuggin'. Wes blew his share of plays as did a lot of players. Even in the championship game, Curry had wide open lanes and settled for long jumpers. It's one thing to not like a player but another to single out a random mistake and make it the guy's identity. Guys who are injured stay in the game by not bangin' in the post and we had plenty of guys injured. Lamarcus couldn't post up as often with a dangling thumb either. It's called injuries. Watch Nico's exit interview and his BBIQ was humble and self critical. He knows he had a bad year. It's not his body of work though, I've watched him since we drafted him. Wes bricked a ton of layups over the last few seasons although he improved last year. Nic fed Rolo in the post with great success.
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Also, as you'll see, I said my limit for Wes was 10 mill. Batum isn't the only player I have issues with..but i do have problems with him constantly dying out in the playoffs, when we need him the most as defenses aren't schemed to stop him but he is around a 12 PER in the playoffs vs 17 in reg season or something like that.
 
ThugginPaulyGAllen said:
Also, as you'll see, I said my limit for Wes was 10 mill. Batum isn't the only player I have issues with..but i do have problems with him constantly dying out in the playoffs, when we need him the most as defenses aren't schemed to stop him but he is around a 12 PER in the playoffs vs 17 in reg season or something like that.
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I thought Batum played pretty well against Houston and the first 2 games vs. Memphis.
 
I respond with factual statements and intellectual discourse and you respond by proving how little you know. Why are you here? If you're going to engage in chat please make it basketball related or else go to an other topic forum.
BlazerWookee said:
Hey, did you see that? For a second there, I thought the needle on my "Give-A-Fuck-What-You-Think-O-Meter" was going to move.

But it didn't.
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I think trading Batum for the #4 is a huge stretch as I see talent with higher ceilings and cheaper contracts available.

Batum to the Kings might be a good fit. He really needs to be in a higher paced offense and Karl would be great for him. Not for sure they give up their pick though.
 
magnifier661 said:
I thought Batum played pretty well against Houston and the first 2 games vs. Memphis.
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Unfortunately for us to be a contender, it is my belief he needs to have more than 6 good games out of 30. I think he is a very good and unique player, but he has proven to consistently regress in the playoffs. He is quite good so I think he is one of our best trade assets, thats why o want to trade him. Because we can get good value. Not because he sucks.

And by regress, his PER is significantly worse and it's not like Houston, SAS, Memphis or anyone else used elite defenders to stop him. For instance, Damian is constantly schemed against and saw Tony Allen and Mike Conley and his PER dropped by 2, from. 20.

If anything you need elite role players to improve in the playoffs because the attention is focused off of them. Don't tell me Jeff Green is an elite defender. Batum was hurt yes, but clearly a trend. (Also, if possible I'd consider renouncing Wes, signing a SF and moving Batum to SG to force him to be aggressive.) This notion that I hate him or his game is silly; he just has the value to move the needle appropriately if we move on from him via trade.
 
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ThugginPaulyGAllen said:
Unfortunately for us to be a contender, it is my belief he needs to have more than 6 good games out of 30. I think he is a very good and unique player, but he has proven to consistently regress in the playoffs. He is quite good so I think he is one of our best trade assets, thats why o want to trade him. Because we can get good value. Not because he sucks.

And by regress, his PER is significantly worse and it's not like Houston, SAS, Memphis or anyone else used elite defenders to stop him. For instance, Damian is constantly schemed against and saw Tony Allen and Mike Conley and his PER dropped by 2, from. 20.
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Don't get me wrong... I'm not saying he's "untradable" or anything... Just saying I remembered him playing pretty well in this playoff and in the Houston series. I am on board with the group that believes he doesn't give it all every game, especially when we need him to.
 
ThugginPaulyGAllen said:
I respond with factual statements and intellectual discourse and you respond by proving how little you know. Why are you here? If you're going to engage in chat please make it basketball related or else go to an other topic forum.
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"Factual," lol. "Intellectual," LMAO!!

Get off your high horse, dude. You make a fairly decent argument in support of your point of view, then start spewing condescending vitriol like an asshole. Then when someone responds in kind, you cry foul.

Go.

Pound.

Sand.
 
Charcoal Filtered said:
Wookee would be a super sized Jimmy Hart and not for sure who the other guy is yet.
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What makes that even more hilarious to me is we have a customer with a company name of Anvil Neidhart. Every time I ship something to them, I cant help but think of the NeidHart Bros.

But then you have Riverman and Bones clobbering each other outside the ring!!!

No disrespect to anyone. Just funny to me. :)
 
Did I not provide statistics to back up my claims about your precious Batum? Did I at least mention basketball in my posts?

The answer to both of those questions is undoubtedly and emphatically, yes!

Was it intellectual? Yes, in fact, I explained exactly why it was a refusal and all you've 'added' to this conversation is 'refusal, lol', then failing to tell me the definition of refusal, and then you compound it with another non-basketball related post, in reply to my basketball related post, telling me you don't care what I think.. which is great, because I couldn't care any less about your opinion based on your choice to not engage in basketball discourse. Then, yes, I got off topic with this post and my last post addressing you. This is a basketball forum is it not? If you quote a post talking basketball, then your reply should be basketball related, shouldnt it? That's what this thread is for.

BlazerWookee said:
"Factual," lol. "Intellectual," LMAO!!

Get off your high horse, dude. You make a fairly decent argument in support of your point of view, then start spewing condescending vitriol like an asshole. Then when someone responds in kind, you cry foul.

Go.

Pound.

Sand.
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ThugginPaulyGAllen said:
Did I not provide statistics to back up my claims about your precious Batum? Did I at least mention basketball in my posts?

The answer to both of those questions is undoubtedly and emphatically, yes!

Was it intellectual? Yes, in fact, I explained exactly why it was a refusal and all you've 'added' to this conversation is 'refusal, lol', then failing to tell me the definition of refusal, and then you compound it with another non-basketball related post, in reply to my basketball related post, telling me you don't care what I think.. which is great, because I couldn't care any less about your opinion based on your choice to not engage in basketball discourse. Then, yes, I got off topic with this post and my last post addressing you. This is a basketball forum is it not? If you quote a post talking basketball, then your reply should be basketball related, shouldnt it? That's what this thread is for.
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ThugginPaulyGAllen said:
And by regress, his PER is significantly worse and it's not like Houston, SAS, Memphis or anyone else used elite defenders to stop him. For instance, Damian is constantly schemed against and saw Tony Allen and Mike Conley and his PER dropped by 2, from. 20.
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Big deal, almost everyone's PER goes down in the post season, other than an occasional superstar who also sees their USG% go way up. It's an extremely simplistic stat to use for claiming a player "disappears" in the playoffs. In fact, it's downright cherry picking and probably the single worst stat you can use when comparing regular season performance to playoff performance. It's just the nature of the game. The games are played at a slower pace, which means less scoring and fewer rebounds. Less scoring also means fewer assists, etc.

In the the playoffs, you are playing a really, really good team every game - especially the last two seasons in the Western Conference. During the regular season, you play almost half your games against teams that aren't good enough to make the playoffs and over 40% of your games against teams that are below .500. There are no weak opponents to pad your stats against in the post season, like there are during the regular season. And, in spite of all of that, when claiming Nicolas Batum consistently disappears during the playoffs, you ignore the simplest, most basics stats that clearly prove otherwise - or maybe that's why you chose to ignore them.

ThugginPaulyGAllen said:
If anything you need elite role players to improve in the playoffs because the attention is focused off of them. Don't tell me Jeff Green is an elite defender. Batum was hurt yes, but clearly a trend. (Also, if possible I'd consider renouncing Wes, signing a SF and moving Batum to SG to force him to be aggressive.) This notion that I hate him or his game is silly; he just has the value to move the needle appropriately if we move on from him via trade.
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Again you've ignored the most basic stats that clearly contradict your argument. The last two regular seasons and post season stats for Nicolas Batum:

Nicolas Batum:
2013-14 Regular Season: 13.0 PPG, 7.5 RPG, 5.1 APG
2103-14 Playoffs: 15.2 PPG, 7.6 RPG, 4.8 APG

2014-15 Regular Season: 9.4 PPG, 5.9 RPG, 4.8 APG
2014-15 Playoffs: 14.2 PPG, 8.6 RPG, 5.2 APG

Yes, I know he plays more MPG in the post season, but see my comments above...

You biggest argument against Batum is he's not aggressive enough in the playoffs, that he disappears when his team needs him to step up the most. How can you honestly say that about a player who's scoring went from 9.4 PPG during the regular season to 14.2 PPG in the playoffs? That's a scoring increase of more than 50%!

As a team, our overall stats went down from:

2014-15 Regular Season: 102.8 PPG, 45.9 RPG, 21.9 APG
2104-15 Playoffs: 93.8 PPG, 44.2 RPG, 16.6 APG

So, as a team, our scoring when down by 8.0 PPG, but Batum's scoring went up by 4.8 PPG. Our team rebounding went down by 1.7 RPG, but Batum's rebounding when up by 3.7 RPG. Our team assists went down by 5.3 APG, but Batum's assists went up by 0.4 APG. Notice a trend here? The team total production went down in all areas, yet Batum's production went up in all areas, and very significantly up in both scoring and rebounding. Care to explain how the guy whose scoring went up by over 50% and rebounding went up by over 60% "disappeared" during the playoffs? You said role players like Batum need to step up during the playoffs - and that's exactly what he's done the last two years.

BNM
 
Due to the wonderful "ignore" feature, I've only seen one side of this conversation. But in the parlance of today's youth (maybe yesterday's, actually), someone was just PWNED.
 
I wish there was a way to double-like BNM's post. Thanks for the stats, BNM. Pretty much confirms what I thought; Nic played his ass off in the playoffs. The blame game around here is pretty mindless at times.
 
While I like Batum a lot, I don't think he's worth the #4 pick.

The Knicks have big money invested in Melo as their SF. If they want a SF, they might be able to get Rudy Gay for less than the #4.

My $.02
 
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