Trade Blazers trade Simons for Holiday

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Cugel said:
Yes the pacers are a clear choice for sure. MIL simply has nothing to offer. If Joe could get TJ and maybe Walker, Toppin and filler for Jrue it wouldn't be bad. Joe could add in other stuff to even it out but no picks. DET might want to part with the expiring of Harris???
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Why do we want those guys? We should be focusing on trades that consolidate, not trades for a bunch of average guys that are bench guys. I dont have much hope for Walker or Toppin to be much more than 7th or 8th men.
 
Bad trade gave up to much for two little and increased our payroll and an older player. Unless we move him this will go down as a very bad deal. Tired of these sideways trades that get us no where. Really we traded for this guy twice and let him go once. Just bad juju.
 
JFizzleRaider said:
Why do we want those guys? We should be focusing on trades that consolidate, not trades for a bunch of average guys that are bench guys. I dont have much hope for Walker or Toppin to be much more than 7th or 8th men.
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Because Jrue is fragile, 100 years old and 100mil
 
SharpesTriumph said:
I don't see how this changes anything with Grant let alone your 100% statement.

Yeah Grant and Jrue both have large salaries until 2028. Otherwise the Blazers cap is very clean and the cap is going to $200 million so while I wish we didn't have those deals it's not killing the franchise or anything.

I do think this would make the Blazers less likely to take on long term salary in an Ayton deal. But there are many short contracts that could still be used. I don't think Ayton can get a FRP - but maybe a swap if its for an injured player or such.
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It will hurt us when we have to pay Shaedon, Toumani, and Scoot.
 
I think the talk of Chris Paul a few weeks ago was very real. The organization wanted to get a legit vet behind Scoot and Shae to learn how to win on the highest level.

I don't love the money involved but the other options for Ant weren't very appealing and they desperately wanted to move on to give Scoot/Shae the runway.
 
1 Eye Jack said:
No way Sharpe doesn’t start this year. They will need the offense and it’s shit or get off the pot time.

starting lineup
Scoot or Jrue ( honestly would prefer Jrue come off bench run 2nd team)
Sharpe
Camara
Deni
Ayton

Bench
Jrue
Clingan
Grant
Thybulle

that’s a nice rotation and potentially really good if Scoot and Sharpe make big jumps. That said I expect more trades to come so don’t expect this to be our last trade
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Try again.

Grant has started 100% of his games as a Blazer over 3 season, is the longest tenured player, and is on the biggest contract. With Ant gone it's more his team than ever. He's not coming off the bench.
 
BrianFromWA said:
Man, I read every post of this instead of looking up long term cap projections---that's later, I guess.

I don't have a cohesive thought partially because I'm not looking at Joe Cronin's or Rich Cho's whiteboard, but a synthesis of some of the facts out there make it both interesting to me and probably not horrible, especially if we're still just seeing the first salvos of what this is eventually going to land on. I'm not hating too hard yet.

1. Doing this (and publicizing it) pre-draft allows you to message and negotiate prior to the Jul 6 new league year timeline. Maybe some draft maneuvering happens, or Jrue or another player gets moved on, or exemptions are added, or...
2. If you're in it for the Ringzz Now culture, then you probably hate the thought that we may be keeping Jrue. But we just saw the two Finalists be young teams playing ridiculous defense. There's a blueprint there. We may be too late to copycat, but I'd rather take my chances with defensive-minded teams than trigger-happy sieves. And I liked having my team go to 20 straight years of playoffs, and a better-than-most chance of winning a home game I went to, than being 'Ship-or-bust and busting for multiple decades. YMMV
3. We are getting Jrue's 35/36/37 seasons (he just turned 35). If we keep him (and I agree that it's possible, maybe even helpful), it's because POR thinks more of his next 3 years than anyone else.
Though it's self-selecting (if they really suck, they aren't in the league anymore), here's the list of oldest players who played 40 games in the NBA this year...Lebron (40), CP3 (39), Horford (39), Conley (37), Batum (36), Steph (36), Durant (36), Deandre Jordan (36), Brook Lopez (36), Westbrook (36), Jimmy Butler (35), Derozan (35), Harden (35). Jrue's about to hit that point and is one season removed from an all-Defense championship season, so maybe it's fair to assume his ceiling is Butler and his floor is Batum over the next 3 years, with a 50% outcome of Horford or CP3? Not a guaranteed death knell of being washed by any means.
4. Just like the Bane return wasn't for 4 firsts, it was for 2-3 and ORL added 1-2 to have MEM take on KCP's 2/$40M going forward. I wonder if the calculus was that, in a vacuum, the cost to move Jrue was one of BOS's (late) firsts. For Ant as an underwater player on an expiring deal (and little chance of a long-term extension), it would take POR's (mid-round) first to move him. And in the negotiation it ended up being 2 2nds coming from us?
5. @HCP 's idea that, with a top 6 pretty well ID'd at this point, we can package a player with the pick and get a cleaner cap sheet (including not paying this year's 1st) has some merit. I don't know how much it's been discussed here, but 11 and a salary to BKN for either a couple of their late 1sts and/or moving 1st to CHI this year to get our future pick (and our ability to trade them) back would be interesting.

And the not-so-promising
1. I don't love the opportunity cost. One of the benefits of being below all the CBA lines are the ability to take on other peoples' problems for assets. Maybe Cronin's already in the "Eff Dem Pixx" mode, and just wants to (or is being directed to) win at the cost of building future assets. Or maybe he's already done his homework and seen it's not going to be easy to get the right player at the right cost for the right return, and this was the best of a weird league situation (where only 1 team has significant cap space). But I think there's space this summer to be had facilitating deals. Including Ayton for something big.
2. The 2nd-round picks are meh to me. If I was GM I'd be collecting them and using them to mine for diamonds, but I know that's not the standard GM fare so I don't mind it.
3. For all that Grant is talked about league-wide (and on this thread) as a boat anchor contract, it's less than Jrue's over the next 3 years for a player who's 4 years younger and still serviceable.
4. Brad Stevens just may be better at this particular game than Joe Cronin. No shame in that.
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Great to see you back FAMS!! What are you up to? Still spying on us?
 
SharpesTriumph said:
Try again.

Grant has started 100% of his games as a Blazer over 3 season, is the longest tenured player, and is on the biggest contract. With Ant gone it's more his team than ever. He's not coming off the bench.
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I get what you're saying and you are probably right but until we see how things shake out and see what the starting lineup looks like on opening night, we can't know for sure.
 
There is just absolutely no way the plan was to just take on an old guys humongous contract and that’s it. The more I think of it this just doesn’t make sense. Jrue has to be going somewhere else.
 
My thoughts on the trade:
  • Initially, I was annoyed. Picks should have been coming, not going. A dream trade for the Celtics.
  • Next, I have been considering the possibility that Holiday, even at his age and salary, has more trade value than Ant.
  • We're blowing an extra $5 mil this season on Holiday compared to Ant. Our cap situation is becoming tenuous.
  • Sounds crazy, but Giannis may be more willing to be traded to the Blazers to play with his old friend Holiday. A starting lineup of Holiday, Tou, Deni, Giannis, Clingan seems amazing.... and we'd still have a very good bench.
  • Grant (or Ayton) and Holiday for Paul George and #3 (Kon, possibly) gives both teams what they want, imho.
  • Spending a bit on fanspo has suggested that Holiday would be plausible to over half the teams in the league, even though only 2 teams have been mentioned as having interest.
 
Wizard Mentor said:
My thoughts on the trade:
  • Initially, I was annoyed. Picks should have been coming, not going. A dream trade for the Celtics.
  • Next, I have been considering the possibility that Holiday, even at his age and salary, has more trade value than Ant.
  • We're blowing an extra $5 mil this season on Holiday compared to Ant. Our cap situation is becoming tenuous.
  • Sounds crazy, but Giannis may be more willing to be traded to the Blazers to play with his old friend Holiday. A starting lineup of Holiday, Tou, Deni, Giannis, Clingan seems amazing.... and we'd still have a very good bench.
  • Grant (or Ayton) and Holiday for Paul George and #3 (Kon, possibly) gives both teams what they want, imho.
  • Spending a bit on fanspo has suggested that Holiday would be plausible to over half the teams in the league, even though only 2 teams have been mentioned as having interest.
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Unless we expand the current trade, I don't think we can combine Jrue and another player for a while. He has to be traded by himself.
 
GoZers said:
There is just absolutely no way the plan was to just take on an old guys humongous contract and that’s it. The more I think of it this just doesn’t make sense. Jrue has to be going somewhere else.
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Or we have a GM and coach worried about their future with a new owner coming in.
 
Kind of shocking we took on Jrue’s contract with the team up for sale. To me that’s a good sign and honestly might be because they have another deal
Lined up to trade Jrue or another player.
 
1 Eye Jack said:
Kind of shocking we took on Jrue’s contract with the team up for sale. To me that’s a good sign and honestly might be because they have another deal
Lined up to trade Jrue or another player.
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No offense, but I was a little surprised that so many fans suggested the same.
It made no sense that the front offense would stop working.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
No offense, but I was a little surprised that so many fans suggested the same.
It made no sense that the front offense would stop working.
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Yeah, I never bought the notion that we would be inactive due to the impending sale. I thought that Joe would try and make big moves that either show the new ownership what he's made of or other teams who could be his next employer.

I didn't know if Bert would gum things up but pretty obviously Joe has the green light to try and make this team better... I'm still not sure if that means better for next season or better for the rebuild but it looks like better for next season.
 
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