Trade Blazers trade Simons for Holiday

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THE HCP said:
It’s interesting how people can look at the same situation and see something completely different . The fact that we are bringing him in makes me think we are 100% moving away from the youth movement and going with the WIN NOW mode. If they send him on his way, that completely changes things of course.
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oh no I agree we’re going win now mode if Jrue is in fact staying.
I don’t see how you keep Grant though..we have lottery pick tomorrow and will probably take a wing.
You can’t start Grant over toumani or Deni.
It sounded like Grant wanted out.
If you trade Grant, I don’t think that’s going youth movement. I think that’s being fiscally responsible.
No way can you have Jrue, Grant and Ayton under contract at 25-30M plus. You just can’t do that.
Especially with the young guys coming up for extensions
 
blazedanugz said:
oh no I agree we’re going win now mode if Jrue is in fact staying.
I don’t see how you keep Grant though..we have lottery pick tomorrow and will probably take a wing.
You can’t start Grant over toumani or Deni.
It sounded like Grant wanted out.
If you trade Grant, I don’t think that’s going youth movement. I think that’s being fiscally responsible.
No way can you have Jrue, Grant and Ayton under contract at 25-30M plus. You just can’t do that.
Especially with the young guys coming up for extensions
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I think a combo of Jrue & Grant could make for the foundation of a very good second team.

It seemed at time last year that Grant was more willing to take a second seat to some of the youngsters.

Isn't this Ayton's last year on contract? Let him go. If Grant and Jrue are willing to play supporting and mentoring roles, I think we could have a good foundation.

Gramps...
 
SharpesTriumph said:
I don't see how this changes anything with Grant let alone your 100% statement.

Yeah Grant and Jrue both have large salaries until 2028. Otherwise the Blazers cap is very clean and the cap is going to $200 million so while I wish we didn't have those deals it's not killing the franchise or anything.

I do think this would make the Blazers less likely to take on long term salary in an Ayton deal. But there are many short contracts that could still be used. I don't think Ayton can get a FRP - but maybe a swap if it’sfor an injured player or such.
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I THINK he’s 100% gone.
What if you have Grant at 30, Jrue at 30 and Ayton at 30

thats 90m

the projected cap next year is 154M
The following years it will go up 10% each year

The team as constructed right now would be 16-18 mil over the cap in 2026.

you have scoot, toumani and Shaedon all ready for extensions

does Ayton get a 30mil/year extension? Probably not
But Daniel gafford just got 20m a year and the league is starting to value bigs again.

There is no reason to be over the cap with Grant on your team. He has to be traded
 
GrandpaBlaze said:
I think a combo of Jrue & Grant could make for the foundation of a very good second team.

It seemed at time last year that Grant was more willing to take a second seat to some of the youngsters.

Isn't this Ayton's last year on contract? Let him go. If Grant and Jrue are willing to play supporting and mentoring roles, I think we could have a good foundation.

Gramps...
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to let ayton walk without getting ANYTHING in return would be a miss
 
julius said:
You know, the Bucks before Jrue never were truly a title contenders...he goes there, and blammo, they win. He leaves, and they've been underwhelming since. In fact, you could say they've been a disappointment.

The Celtics were underwhelming until the goes there, and blammo, they win a title. Now that he's gone? They won't be winning the title anytime sooner either.

The last 2 teams he played for won titles in his first year on their team.

Obviously that means they will win the title this year with the Blazers.

Facts don't lie.
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It is hard to play 4 on 5 on defense.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
Pritchard might still start. It's a MUCH MUCH easier dynamic for Boston to tell Ant he is coming off the bench than it would have been for the Blazers to try and tell Ant that. On the Blazers Ant was the longest tenured player and the leading scorer of the franchise for years. Ant has zero tenure on Boston and is on an expiring contract. Pritchard won a title and 6MOTY.

Shae might not get a starting spot with Jrue here, and may not even get too many more minutes than he would have with Ant. Maybe an aging Jrue plays less MPG than Ant so it could be a minor improvement for Shae. But the big difference is Shae has a MUCH larger opportunity to lead more of the Blazers offense.
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Who would start at SG if not Shae?
 
Freshtown said:
he has no value
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Ugh this is my point
His value is giving a team cap relief by taking on that teams longer contract while hopefully getting some draft assets back. Even second rounders.

Now, with Jrue and Grant both on the team signed through 2028, trading Ayton for another longer contract is bad business.
So with the Jrue trade, Grant still on the team, the blazers effectively killed Aytons trade market. Not just from other teams perspective, but also our own.
No way, at this teams talent level, are you paying Jrue holiday, jerami grant and Ayton/other contract taken in via trade, around 90 million for the next few years
 
Freshtown said:
The problem is the grant contract is negative value now because Joe waited too long to trade him and was demanding 2frp. So do you attach assets to dump it now? I’d like to not do that.
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lol! Its stunning posters still believe this nonsense. That was internet pretend time and never the case. Grant and Dame duped management into offering that awful deal in hopes it would bring Lillard back into the Blazer fold. Once signed, Grant was all ours and no one was going to be offering a single 2nd rounder for him.

STOMP
 
Man, I read every post of this instead of looking up long term cap projections---that's later, I guess.

I don't have a cohesive thought partially because I'm not looking at Joe Cronin's or Rich Cho's whiteboard, but a synthesis of some of the facts out there make it both interesting to me and probably not horrible, especially if we're still just seeing the first salvos of what this is eventually going to land on. I'm not hating too hard yet.

1. Doing this (and publicizing it) pre-draft allows you to message and negotiate prior to the Jul 6 new league year timeline. Maybe some draft maneuvering happens, or Jrue or another player gets moved on, or exemptions are added, or...
2. If you're in it for the Ringzz Now culture, then you probably hate the thought that we may be keeping Jrue. But we just saw the two Finalists be young teams playing ridiculous defense. There's a blueprint there. We may be too late to copycat, but I'd rather take my chances with defensive-minded teams than trigger-happy sieves. And I liked having my team go to 20 straight years of playoffs, and a better-than-most chance of winning a home game I went to, than being 'Ship-or-bust and busting for multiple decades. YMMV
3. We are getting Jrue's 35/36/37 seasons (he just turned 35). If we keep him (and I agree that it's possible, maybe even helpful), it's because POR thinks more of his next 3 years than anyone else.
Though it's self-selecting (if they really suck, they aren't in the league anymore), here's the list of oldest players who played 40 games in the NBA this year...Lebron (40), CP3 (39), Horford (39), Conley (37), Batum (36), Steph (36), Durant (36), Deandre Jordan (36), Brook Lopez (36), Westbrook (36), Jimmy Butler (35), Derozan (35), Harden (35). Jrue's about to hit that point and is one season removed from an all-Defense championship season, so maybe it's fair to assume his ceiling is Butler and his floor is Batum over the next 3 years, with a 50% outcome of Horford or CP3? Not a guaranteed death knell of being washed by any means.
4. Just like the Bane return wasn't for 4 firsts, it was for 2-3 and ORL added 1-2 to have MEM take on KCP's 2/$40M going forward. I wonder if the calculus was that, in a vacuum, the cost to move Jrue was one of BOS's (late) firsts. For Ant as an underwater player on an expiring deal (and little chance of a long-term extension), it would take POR's (mid-round) first to move him. And in the negotiation it ended up being 2 2nds coming from us?
5. @HCP 's idea that, with a top 6 pretty well ID'd at this point, we can package a player with the pick and get a cleaner cap sheet (including not paying this year's 1st) has some merit. I don't know how much it's been discussed here, but 11 and a salary to BKN for either a couple of their late 1sts and/or moving 1st to CHI this year to get our future pick (and our ability to trade them) back would be interesting.

And the not-so-promising
1. I don't love the opportunity cost. One of the benefits of being below all the CBA lines are the ability to take on other peoples' problems for assets. Maybe Cronin's already in the "Eff Dem Pixx" mode, and just wants to (or is being directed to) win at the cost of building future assets. Or maybe he's already done his homework and seen it's not going to be easy to get the right player at the right cost for the right return, and this was the best of a weird league situation (where only 1 team has significant cap space). But I think there's space this summer to be had facilitating deals. Including Ayton for something big.
2. The 2nd-round picks are meh to me. If I was GM I'd be collecting them and using them to mine for diamonds, but I know that's not the standard GM fare so I don't mind it.
3. For all that Grant is talked about league-wide (and on this thread) as a boat anchor contract, it's less than Jrue's over the next 3 years for a player who's 4 years younger and still serviceable.
4. Brad Stevens just may be better at this particular game than Joe Cronin. No shame in that.
 
crandc said:
A bit surprised but like people said, wait and see. I wish Ant well. Couldn't understand the hate. He might not have been best for this team at this time but not a bad person.
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who hated Simons as a person?

I wanted him gone but that's because of what he was on the basketball court. Net negative at 25M/year and an undersized combo guard who couldn't defend a chair and had no 3&D or wing potential
 
blazedanugz said:
oh no I agree we’re going win now mode if Jrue is in fact staying.
I don’t see how you keep Grant though..we have lottery pick tomorrow and will probably take a wing.
You can’t start Grant over toumani or Deni.
It sounded like Grant wanted out.
If you trade Grant, I don’t think that’s going youth movement. I think that’s being fiscally responsible.
No way can you have Jrue, Grant and Ayton under contract at 25-30M plus. You just can’t do that.
Especially with the young guys coming up for extensions
Click to expand...
Sure you can start Grant over Toumani or Deni. Grant has started every game he's played as a Blazer and is entitled to that role regardless of his performance. Deni played off the bench some of the season. Id guess it's most likely Sharpe is the one benched though.

The salaries are fine for this season. Now if they give Ayton a fat extension yes we'll have a big problem.
 
BrianFromWA said:
4. Brad Stevens just may be better at this particular game than Joe Cronin. No shame in that.
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That's a fact, Jack.

Last night in perusing Twitter (I know, it can be a cesspool) about Simons, Celtics fans were laughing at Joe and pumping Steven's up as masterclass.
 
JFizzleRaider said:
That's a fact, Jack.

Last night in perusing Twitter (I know, it can be a cesspool) about Simons, Celtics fans were laughing at Joe and pumping Steven's up as masterclass.
Click to expand...
To be fair, I don't know that I trust BOS fans on about anything on anything, but that doesn't mean they're wrong here.
 
BrianFromWA said:
Man, I read every post of this instead of looking up long term cap projections---that's later, I guess.

I don't have a cohesive thought partially because I'm not looking at Joe Cronin's or Rich Cho's whiteboard, but a synthesis of some of the facts out there make it both interesting to me and probably not horrible, especially if we're still just seeing the first salvos of what this is eventually going to land on. I'm not hating too hard yet.

1. Doing this (and publicizing it) pre-draft allows you to message and negotiate prior to the Jul 6 new league year timeline. Maybe some draft maneuvering happens, or Jrue or another player gets moved on, or exemptions are added, or...
2. If you're in it for the Ringzz Now culture, then you probably hate the thought that we may be keeping Jrue. But we just saw the two Finalists be young teams playing ridiculous defense. There's a blueprint there. We may be too late to copycat, but I'd rather take my chances with defensive-minded teams than trigger-happy sieves. And I liked having my team go to 20 straight years of playoffs, and a better-than-most chance of winning a home game I went to, than being 'Ship-or-bust and busting for multiple decades. YMMV
3. We are getting Jrue's 35/36/37 seasons (he just turned 35). If we keep him (and I agree that it's possible, maybe even helpful), it's because POR thinks more of his next 3 years than anyone else.
Though it's self-selecting (if they really suck, they aren't in the league anymore), here's the list of oldest players who played 40 games in the NBA this year...Lebron (40), CP3 (39), Horford (39), Conley (37), Batum (36), Steph (36), Durant (36), Deandre Jordan (36), Brook Lopez (36), Westbrook (36), Jimmy Butler (35), Derozan (35), Harden (35). Jrue's about to hit that point and is one season removed from an all-Defense championship season, so maybe it's fair to assume his ceiling is Butler and his floor is Batum over the next 3 years, with a 50% outcome of Horford or CP3? Not a guaranteed death knell of being washed by any means.
4. Just like the Bane return wasn't for 4 firsts, it was for 2-3 and ORL added 1-2 to have MEM take on KCP's 2/$40M going forward. I wonder if the calculus was that, in a vacuum, the cost to move Jrue was one of BOS's (late) firsts. For Ant as an underwater player on an expiring deal (and little chance of a long-term extension), it would take POR's (mid-round) first to move him. And in the negotiation it ended up being 2 2nds coming from us?
5. @HCP 's idea that, with a top 6 pretty well ID'd at this point, we can package a player with the pick and get a cleaner cap sheet (including not paying this year's 1st) has some merit. I don't know how much it's been discussed here, but 11 and a salary to BKN for either a couple of their late 1sts and/or moving 1st to CHI this year to get our future pick (and our ability to trade them) back would be interesting.

And the not-so-promising
1. I don't love the opportunity cost. One of the benefits of being below all the CBA lines are the ability to take on other peoples' problems for assets. Maybe Cronin's already in the "Eff Dem Pixx" mode, and just wants to (or is being directed to) win at the cost of building future assets. Or maybe he's already done his homework and seen it's not going to be easy to get the right player at the right cost for the right return, and this was the best of a weird league situation (where only 1 team has significant cap space). But I think there's space this summer to be had facilitating deals. Including Ayton for something big.
2. The 2nd-round picks are meh to me. If I was GM I'd be collecting them and using them to mine for diamonds, but I know that's not the standard GM fare so I don't mind it.
3. For all that Grant is talked about league-wide (and on this thread) as a boat anchor contract, it's less than Jrue's over the next 3 years for a player who's 4 years younger and still serviceable.
4. Brad Stevens just may be better at this particular game than Joe Cronin. No shame in that.
Click to expand...

Hi, you must be new here. Welcome to the forum!

(Great to see you Brian, how have you and your family been?)
 
THE HCP said:
I bet Pritchard is PISSED about this trade. I’m quite sure he assumed he was sliding into that starting lineup this season. Complete opposite….I’m quite sure Shae and his camp are ecstatic! (Never typed that last word before)!!!
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your wife typed it every time you left town
 
BrianFromWA said:
To be fair, I don't know that I trust BOS fans on about anything on anything, but that doesn't mean they're wrong here.
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I don't disagree (even though Boston itself is amazing). But their list of transactions Stevens has pulled off were pretty impressive.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Hi, you must be new here. Welcome to the forum!

(Great to see you Brian, how have you and your family been?)
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thanks, I feel welcome already.
They're good, and with Mrs. BFW's family this week, so I have time to get on here with you deplorables without shirking either work or family. I thought it would be on draft stuff, not this... ;)
 
THE HCP said:
Who would start at SG if not Shae?
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Most likely Camara with Grant and Deni at forward. So we can have year 4 of Sharpe as a backup.

If somehow one of those guys is out it'll be between Scoot and Sharpe to start. If Scoot starts, Jrue moves to SG and Sharpe still stays on the bench.
 
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