Blazers trade the #7 pick for.....?

[illmatic99]

OKC has #2/12/30/34 this year.
....as many as 6 in 2023 (up to 4 1sts and 2 2nds)

There is no way they can Draft all of these players along with all the young players they already have on their roster.

OKC no longer has 30. They traded it today to Denver

 

[wizenheimer]

And besides, the likelihood of #7 turning into a star are not great.

the last 5 drafts, 7-14:

2017:

7 Lauri Markkanen
8 Frank Ntilikina
9 Dennis Smith Jr.
10 Zach Collins
11 Malik Monk
12 Luke Kennard
13 Donovan Mitchell
14 Bam Adebayo

2018:

Wendell Carter Jr.
Collin Sexton
Kevin Knox
Mikal Bridges
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
Miles Bridges
Jerome Robinson
Michael Porter Jr.

2019:

7 Coby White
8 Jaxson Hayes
9 Rui Hachimura
10 Cam Reddish
11 Cameron Johnson
12 P.J. Washington
13 Tyler Herro
14 Romeo Langford

2020:

7 Killian Hayes
8 Obi Toppin
9 Deni Avdija
10 Jalen Smith
11 Devin Vassell
12 Tyrese Haliburton
13 Kira Lewis Jr.
14 Aaron Nesmith

2021:

7 Jonathan Kuminga
8 Franz Wagner
9 Davion Mitchell
10 Ziaire Williams
11 James Bouknight
12 Joshua Primo
13 Chris Duarte
14 Moses Moody

so, out of 40 players, 2 all-stars and 2-3 other players than might get to all-star level. So, 4 or 5 players that are arguably better than Collins. Maybe a couple of other on the same level as Collins. And 10-12 that are trending or already busts

 

[illmatic99]

the last 5 drafts, 7-14:

so, out of 40 players, 2 all-stars and 2-3 other players than might get to all-star level. So, 4 or 5 players that are arguably better than Collins. Maybe a couple of other on the same level as Collins. And 10-12 that are trending or already busts

That's all fine and I get it-- I still can hate the idea of trading down by principle for a team as far away from contention as ours. This exercise of listing players also doesn't consider the kind of coaching they'll receive on our team. And I've done enough research into the guys this year to be comfortable enough to draft them at 7 and develop them in house.

In this instance, I'm more concerned with the value of #7 in a vacuum and think Collins + 16 would be great for it.

 

[Phatguysrule]

KOC:

"League sources say the Hawks are looking to add a lottery pick either by outright trading John Collins or also including this selection (#16). One of the teams they’ve had talks with is Portland. "

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/mock-draft

Perfect. Love these kind of moves for Portland in our current situation

 

[Phatguysrule]

Moving down has been mentioned many times with a few teams
7 for Char's 13 and 15 and maybe a bit more
7 for San Anton's 9 and 20 or 25
7 for OKC's 12 and another pick or Dort or someone else?

7 for 11 and Randle (also heard Toppin, but seems less likely).

 

[B-Roy]

That's all fine and I get it-- I still can hate the idea of trading down by principle for a team as far away from contention as ours. This exercise of listing players also doesn't consider the kind of coaching they'll receive on our team. And I've done enough research into the guys this year to be comfortable enough to draft them at 7 and develop them in house.

In this instance, I'm more concerned with the value of #7 in a vacuum and think Collins + 16 would be great for it.

A million times this.

 

[BIG Q]

Has anybody heard why Atlanta is hell bent to dump Collins? Is it because he can't thrive with a shoot first PG? They don't like his game? He can't defend? They don't think he is worth the money? Have they done a better job than us thus far and identified a future star that will be available at 7? I'd really love to know.

 

[Mr. Robot]

Needed for what?

trail blazers are trying to win now and established players in the nba can contribute right now unlike drafted players

the goal is to improve the team, im not sure drafted player would improve the team right away... it just dont make sense to keep the pick if were not rebuilding

 

[CJ_is_Gone]

KOC:

"League sources say the Hawks are looking to add a lottery pick either by outright trading John Collins or also including this selection (#16). One of the teams they’ve had talks with is Portland. "

https://nbadraft.theringer.com/mock-draft

I'd be on board with this.

Ideally, we can do a trade with SAS first. Pick up #9+#25, then trade #9 for Collins + 16.

 

[Mr. Robot]

Has anybody heard why Atlanta is hell bent to dump Collins? Is it because he can't thrive with a shoot first PG? They don't like his game? He can't defend? They don't think he is worth the money? Have they done a better job than us thus far and identified a future star that will be available at 7? I'd really love to know.

there were rumors that hes not on the same page with trae (but that was when they had their previous coach)

hawks are not a good fit for him and therefore he cant show his best there, so it makes sense to deal him elsewhere... i dont know if he would be better with us, with ant & nurk both taking possessions, so they would all need to sacrifice to make it work (i would say even dame would need to sacrifice, there would be no need for him to carry the team, but rather be a difference maker)

 

[CJ_is_Gone]

Portland could take back Gallo (5M guaranteed) into their medium TPE. That would save the Hawks some money. For Blazers, it adds 1.1M in salary which would be more than offset by the rookie scale difference between 7 and 16

Incorrect.
Portland would have to be able to accept the full value of Gallo's contract. They would have to use the large $20M TPE to be able to receive Gallo.

 

[Mediocre Man]

trail blazers are trying to win now and established players in the nba can contribute right now unlike drafted players

the goal is to improve the team, im not sure drafted player would improve the team right away... it just dont make sense to keep the pick if were not rebuilding

The goal SHOULD BE to win a title. It also makes no sense to add journeyman players. I’ve said this before, and I stand by it. MOST of the time a ball dominant pg is the worst thing to build a title around

 

[BIG Q]

trail blazers are trying to win now and established players in the nba can contribute right now unlike drafted players

the goal is to improve the team, im not sure drafted player would improve the team right away... it just dont make sense to keep the pick if were not rebuilding

But Portland isn't winning anything next season. Probably not the year after either. This exercise is all about putting a "winner" around Dame while he gets a new super max and we have even less cap room to use. We mortgage everything for a couple of his buddies to join the club and they get new deals and hold Portland hostage for more money because they are Dame's boys. Drafting well provides cost certainty also. And I'm not attacking you. It's just the notion that Portland has to do everything to placate Dame. What's he going to do besides rake in a shit ton of money, realize his hand picked "vets" aren't enough to win anything then he demands a trade and Portland gets pennies on the dollar. I'm not for or against moving Dame, I just want the insanity addressed.

 

[illmatic99]

Has anybody heard why Atlanta is hell bent to dump Collins? Is it because he can't thrive with a shoot first PG? They don't like his game? He can't defend? They don't think he is worth the money? Have they done a better job than us thus far and identified a future star that will be available at 7? I'd really love to know.

all fair questions. They never really wanted to pay him in the first place, but they made the conference finals unexpectedly and had their hands forced. Fischer has cited before that Collins isn't really that happy there either and his camp had asked to be moved to a team that would value him more when extension talks were souring last year (even mentioned the Spurs really liked Collins). Collins and Young also have clashed before with Collins griping about Trae's shot selection.

I think the push to move him now stems from financial motives from upcoming extensions for Hunter and trying to open up time for their #7 pick last year, Okongwu.

I like your question about who ATL has targeted at 7. My $ is on Sharpe. And we need to evaluate him ourselves to deem whether he can be our future star before moving the pick. ATL is also looking at Gobert. Would surprise me to see them possibly move 7 + Capela to Utah in exchange.

 

[BIG Q]

all fair questions. They never really wanted to pay him in the first place, but they made the conference finals unexpectedly and had their hands forced. Fischer has cited before that Collins isn't really that happy there either and his camp had asked to be moved to a team that would value him more when extension talks were souring last year (even mentioned the Spurs really liked Collins). Collins and Young also have clashed before with Collins griping about Trae's shot selection.

I think the push to move him now stems from financial motives from upcoming extensions for Hunter and trying to open up time for their #7 pick last year, Okongwu.

I like your question about who ATL has targeted at 7. My $ is on Sharpe. And we need to evaluate him ourselves to deem whether he can be our future star before moving the pick. ATL is also looking at Gobert. Would surprise me to see them possibly move 7 + Capela to Utah in exchange.

Thanks for the response. If Collins is not happy with Trae's shot selection, watch out with Dame/Ant. He would be coming to a PDX team that I am not sure knows how to utilize a good forward. Honestly, how long has it been that they have had a decent one? Just talking out loud.

 

[illmatic99]

Thanks for the response. If Collins is not happy with Trae's shot selection, watch out with Dame/Ant. He would be coming to a PDX team that I am not sure knows how to utilize a good forward. Honestly, how long has it been that they have had a decent one? Just talking out loud.

aldridge.

But this is exactly what Dame was saying on that Draymond podcast a few months back about drawing talent to POR. He mentioned he had no trouble taking a backseat to let someone else shine if it meant we could maximize their talents to win. He said he doesn't care about sharing the spotlight and just wants to succeed. He spoke with such conviction, you had to believe him.

 

[illmatic99]

Another nugget in KOC's updated mock:

The Sixers are exploring trades involving this pick and Danny Green, according to sources. While Green was an important two-way wing for the Sixers, he tore both the ACL and LCL in his left knee in May and now he has an expiring $10 million contract.

If we can't get anything else of value. Absorbing Green's contract for the #23 seems like a decent option. You can also have Green/Ingles being ACL rehab bros on the bench every night.

 

[CJ_is_Gone]

Another nugget in KOC's updated mock:

The Sixers are exploring trades involving this pick and Danny Green, according to sources. While Green was an important two-way wing for the Sixers, he tore both the ACL and LCL in his left knee in May and now he has an expiring $10 million contract.

If we can't get anything else of value. Absorbing Green's contract for the #23 seems like a decent option. You can also have Green/Ingles being ACL rehab bros on the bench every night.

That doesn't make sense to me.
Why would Sixers give up the #23 to trade Green? Green's $10M contract is NOT guaranteed. They can cut him and not be out anything.

 

[Pinwheel1]

My understanding from a friend in Atlanta that watches every Hawk game, is that Collin's offense is very good, and his D is adequate. (Good shot blocker) His contract is the issue for Atlanta, and his durability is not ideal. No major injuries though.

 

[illmatic99]

That doesn't make sense to me.
Why would Sixers give up the #23 to trade Green? Green's $10M contract is NOT guaranteed. They can cut him and not be out anything.

maybe they want a TPE?

 

[BBert]

As with seemingly EVERYTHING ELSE around the Cronin era, this could be purposeful to try to drive bidding wars, communicate to players that they're wanted here, etc., OR, a harbinger of an effectively rudderless ship... Feels like between the deadline and this offseason, we'll know pretty quickly what kind of GM Cronin is...

My thought was that the info is designed to let other GMs know Portland has other options and is considering other deals, so don't try to squeeze us.

 

[BBert]

OKC has #2/12/30/34 this year.
....as many as 6 in 2023 (up to 4 1sts and 2 2nds)

There is no way they can Draft all of these players along with all the young players they already have on their roster.

I'd love to get their 12 for future considerations, like our Milwaukee pick.

 

[blazerfan11]

Number of regular season games played by John Collins:

2019-20....41 games
2020-21....63 games
2021-22....54 games

 

[illmatic99]

Number of regular season games played by John Collins:

2019-20....41 games
2020-21....63 games
2021-22....54 games

to be fair, in 19-20, he played 41 of 67 games that his team played and they were not invited to the bubble.

in 20-21, he played 63 of 72.

not great but that's prolly one of the reasons he's available.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Incorrect.
Portland would have to be able to accept the full value of Gallo's contract. They would have to use the large $20M TPE to be able to receive Gallo.

Not true. The 20M only has to be guaranteed if it's being used to match salary. Same deal with us trading Bledsoe and his 3.9M/19M.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

lol...you don't trust current management but you'd trust them to get good value from trading Dame?

Ha ha, this is the conundrum I find myself in when trying to decide what I want this team to do.

I've come to accept I'm totally ok with the team not trading Dame now, even if there is no shot to contend soon. Dame could increases his value if he comes back healthy, or the Blazers could get better ownership/management/etc to improve the decision makers.

But what I do want to see now is not have the Blazers screw up. I don't want to see the Blazers trade away youth, picks, or upside young players for non star veterans that add a small amount of wins. That would be even worse than the Roco/Nance trades. Basically if the Blazers trade their #7 pick (directly or indirectly) for Grant/OG/Julius Randle/John Collins, etc I would say it qualifies as that. The Blazers would be further down the path of not having a real chance to contend soon, nor rebuild soon. They would actually be completing moves that reduce the chance to actually add a star that could make a long term difference. Yes that chance at #7 is small. But its much higher than a chance at contending with average veterans such as Grant/OG/etc.

 

[KSF-ERIC]

Ha ha, this is the conundrum I find myself in when trying to decide what I want this team to do.

I've come to accept I'm totally ok with the team not trading Dame now, even if there is no shot to contend soon. Dame could increases his value if he comes back healthy, or the Blazers could get better ownership/management/etc to improve the decision makers.

But what I do want to see now is not have the Blazers screw up. I don't want to see the Blazers trade away youth, picks, or upside young players for non star veterans that add a small amount of wins. That would be even worse than the Roco/Nance trades. Basically if the Blazers trade their #7 pick (directly or indirectly) for Grant/OG/Julius Randle/John Collins, etc I would say it qualifies as that. The Blazers would be further down the path of not having a real chance to contend soon, nor rebuild soon. They would actually be completing moves that reduce the chance to actually add a star that could make a long term difference. Yes that chance at #7 is small. But its much higher than a chance at contending with average veterans such as Grant/OG/etc.

Wasn't Randle All NBA? And OG is young with still unrealized potential. Not too late in his career to become a star.

 

[wizenheimer]

Incorrect.
Portland would have to be able to accept the full value of Gallo's contract. They would have to use the large $20M TPE to be able to receive Gallo.

are you sure that is true? I thought he had two trade values, just like Bledsoe. 5M till his guarantee date, then full value after that deadline

 

[wizenheimer]

That's all fine and I get it-- I still can hate the idea of trading down by principle for a team as far away from contention as ours. This exercise of listing players also doesn't consider the kind of coaching they'll receive on our team. And I've done enough research into the guys this year to be comfortable enough to draft them at 7 and develop them in house.

In this instance, I'm more concerned with the value of #7 in a vacuum and think Collins + 16 would be great for it.

I was not listing those picks for a 'trade down' (which I hate) gauge, but rather for a gauge of the chances of actually drafting a player the level of, or better, than Collins

 

[CJ_is_Gone]

Not true. The 20M only has to be guaranteed if it's being used to match salary. Same deal with us trading Bledsoe and his 3.9M/19M.

I didn't say that it HAD to be guaranteed.
I said that since Portland is over the cap, that they have to be able to RECEIVE the FULL CONTRACT AMOUNT.

In this scenario, $18.5M Bledsoe's contract would have to be fully guaranteed to be able to receive John Collins $23.5M contract. (CBA allows for $5M delta between the two).
Portland would then have to find a way to receive a $20M contract (that is only guaranteed for $5M). The only way to do that is to use the McCollum TPE.