Bust a Scoot?

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AldoTrapani said:
Dude he’s nowhere near the rookie ladder. Hes far from ever being on the rookie teams lol
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I guess we'll see where he ends up in the voting but while everyone looks at advanced metrics much closer now, when evaluating rookies I think raw production can be a big deal to the media. Scoot was on the Rising Stars team and I won't be shocked if he gets left off of both all rookie first and second teams but I won't be shocked if he's on one either.
 
AldoTrapani said:
Dude he’s nowhere near the rookie ladder. Hes far from ever being on the rookie teams lol
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Henderson was on the rookie Rising Stars team, and he sprained a core muscle after getting bumped and hitting the deck hard during a reverse layup.
No more Rookie team exemplars,
Blazer ball only
 
On the surface, this is a 20 yr old averaging 18 points and 10 assists a game on 43/36/83 shooting splits in 36mpg this month.

The 5+ turnovers notwithstanding, this is good.

The assist number is especially awesome considering the only offensive threat he has next to him is Ayton.
 
illmatic99 said:
On the surface, this is a 20 yr old averaging 18 points and 10 assists a game on 43/36/83 shooting splits in 36mpg this month.

The 5+ turnovers notwithstanding, this is good.

The assist number is especially awesome considering the only offensive threat he has next to him is Ayton.
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Think of it as him averaging possibly 15 assists per game (a third of them for the other team, but still).
 
wizenheimer said:
might not be that simple and Scoot's October is a very low bar. His 3ptFG% has 'improved' over G-League, but it's been pretty inconsistent, month-to-month, all season:

View attachment 64347

a 31.7% 3pt conversion rate is probably right around where the expectations would have set it...maybe a bit higher than expected based upon GLeague. But there is no real predictive trend-line.

problem is his 2ptFG% is a lot worse than his GLeague mark, and so is his FG% and TS%. He shot 46.5% on two's last season in 19 games, and 47.7% when you add his 17 showcase cup games; but just 41.7% this season. He shot 44.1% on FG's in those 36 g-league games but 38.5% this year. And he had a .537 TS% mark in g-league regular season and a .580 TS% in showcase cup; but has a .488 TS mark this season

Obviously, the competition levels were wildly different, and scouting is much better in the NBA, but that he is so far below his g-league marks this year is a bit concerning. This isn't minor variance
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No.
I said his Jump shot.
Not his stats.
Look at the shot. Placement of his hands, ball, pocket, gather, release. Both on his catch and shoot and his shot off the dribble.

You can't put a stat on everything.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Over an 8 season span (12-13 through 19-20), Bledsoe averaged 16 & 5 with a PER of 19. That's not a bad comp. Certainly not the all-star we hope for him to become, but still an above-average starting PG (which would be a big leap from what he has been so far).
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Yeah it's not a bad comp. The thing that hurt Bledsoe was injuries at the Clippers and Phoenix which hampered his effectiveness. He was All defensive team in Milwaukee two years running.
 
kjironman1 said:
No.
I said his Jump shot.
Not his stats.
Look at the shot. Placement of his hands, ball, pocket, gather, release. Both on his catch and shoot and his shot off the dribble.

You can't put a stat on everything.
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you're talking about form? seems pretty subjective but ok

I was gauging by results

he's certainly been better over the last 9-10 games; fallen off a little over the last 5 but still quite a bit better than his season marks. He was a bricklayer when he first came back from his last injury. Hie three point shot has been significantly better for sure

but here's the thing I notice when looking at his progression thru the last 17-18 game logs: He was a bricklayer when he was playing with Simons. About the same time that Simons went to the infirmary, Scoot started to shoot better. Those two just don't play well together.

still, there's enough variance and inconsistency in his shooting I'm not sure breaking it down and cherry-picking the best sample of his shooting numbers is predictive. What is more concerning, to me at least, is that he has consistently been a turnover machine. In his last 10 games, when he shot so well, he had 81 assists and 53 turnovers. A 1.53 assist/turnover ratio when his season mark was 1.58. No progression in that critical phase of his game.

his conversion rate at the rim is still poor, but I think everybody has concluded he dramatically needs to improve his left handle. He is a fiddler crab at this point in his career
 
Hoopguru said:
Scoot reminds me of Baron Davis not only in size but shooting. Davis I believe made a couple all star games.
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Also a pretty decent comp. Anyone want to look at what Davis put up between ages 21-30 and tell me that they wouldn't be happy seeing a decade of that from Scoot?

upload_2024-4-11_9-16-10.png
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Trouble is, both Davis and Bledsoe were more athletic than Scoot.

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It is amazing to see the contrast between the above-the-rim version of Scoot from his G-League highlights and the mostly below-the-rim version we've seen this year (even in his NBA highlights).
 
wizenheimer said:
Simons went to the infirmary, Scoot started to shoot better. Those two just don't play well together.
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To me that is very subjective.

You jumped right back on Statistics. I'm watching him play. Watching what he does and how he moves. Yes, Form on shots. Speed of decision making and quickness of passes. Does he hold up when he is about to make a very bad pass like he didn't do in the first part of the season. I watched him barrel right into bad situations but now is treading much more lightly into those same situations.
Obviously he has found Ayton. That alone has made a huge difference. Lets just add that might make a big difference in how he plays with Simons and Grant. It opens up options. As the defense guards for the lob to Ayton leaving Simons open at the 3 point line or Grant cutting on the weak side.

The Game is played on the court. Not in the box score.

Yes most of what I'm talking about is subjective no question.
 
It's funny to me that some people are saying he's not athletic enough. Others that he doesn't have good handles. That's he can't go left. That he can't shoot.

Somehow, he's having a pretty good age 19/20 rookie season, so he must have something going for him.
 
Ed O said:
It's funny to me that some people are saying he's not athletic enough. Others that he doesn't have good handles. That's he can't go left. That he can't shoot.

Somehow, he's having a pretty good age 19/20 rookie season, so he must have something going for him.
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What did Telfair average when he was given free rein in his rookie season?
 
Rastapopoulos said:
What did Telfair average when he was given free rein in his rookie season?
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He didn't even earn 20 minutes a game, but he had half as many points per game and shot under 25% from the three point line.

The game high comparisons are pretty interesting:

upload_2024-4-11_10-47-17.png

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Telfair was three inches shorter, about 30 pounds lighter, and an inferior perimeter shooter. He also never seemed to improve in the NBA (or since, like, 8th grade or so :) )
 
Ed O said:
He didn't even earn 20 minutes a game, but he had half as many points per game and shot under 25% from the three point line.

The game high comparisons are pretty interesting:

View attachment 64406

View attachment 64407

Telfair was three inches shorter, about 30 pounds lighter, and an inferior perimeter shooter. He also never seemed to improve in the NBA (or since, like, 8th grade or so :) )
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And as much of a fan of Bassy as I was, I can tell you first hand that one of those dudes acted like he was the Mayor of NYC and the other one is as humble and polite as can be. I know a lot of people don’t care about off the court stuff like that, but that rings true with me.
 
kjironman1 said:
The Game is played on the court. Not in the box score..
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which game?

(I guess I need to add a footnote to all my Scoot posts explaining I have a lot of optimism about his upside. I've certainly said that a lot. That optimism doesn't stop me from looking at what he's done so far and what he needs to work on)
 
THE HCP said:
And as much of a fan of Bassy as I was, I can tell you first hand that one of those dudes acted like he was the Mayor of NYC and the other one is as humble and polite as can be. I know a lot of people don’t care about off the court stuff like that, but that rings true with me.
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I tend not to care too much, because I prefer to see how productive a guy is on the court, and a productive asshole is still a productive player, you know?

But in this situation, where Scoot is so young and he doesn't have much of a track record, I think it's fantastic news that he is more likely to be a sponge and improve than to think he's already arrived. Thanks for sharing :)
 
wizenheimer said:
which game?

(I guess I need to add a footnote to all my Scoot posts explaining I have a lot of optimism about his upside. I've certainly said that a lot. That optimism doesn't stop me from looking at what he's done so far and what he needs to work on)
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Oh don't get me wrong here. You've been great. I just feel I'm looking at the situation differently.
I'm trying to just see his presence on the court. The tiny little nuances that he seems to be picking up. I'm calling them wins when he doesn't make a mistake that he used to or when he moves without the ball into a place to get a rebound that before he was too busy worrying about his next move to just be comfortable on the court and play.
I see growth but those things are very hard to put a number on. I also see chemistry that wasn't there just a few months ago.
 
THE HCP said:
And as much of a fan of Bassy as I was, I can tell you first hand that one of those dudes acted like he was the Mayor of NYC and the other one is as humble and polite as can be. I know a lot of people don’t care about off the court stuff like that, but that rings true with me.
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Scoot definitely seems to have an ideal personality. This is very good news, because he will realize he needs to improve and do everything he can to do so. This Summer will be huge for him.
 
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