OT Cancel Culture: Discuss

[Lanny]

I'm Jewish. What Myers Leonard said is very insulting. But guess, what?

I'll get over it.

We all say stupid shit. We have all used words that we should not have used. What happened to forgiveness? Why is everyone's skin so damn thin these days? Why are someone's hurt feelings more important than just about anything else now?

For the record, I am not talking about sexual harassment. I'm talking about people like Chris Harrison (The Bachelor) or Kathy Griffin. Or Myers. He said something stupid. OK, so what? I never need to hear from him ever again? The punishment so does not fit the crime.

I don't get cancelling people people they were dumb, or boorish, or rude, or insensitive.

We can think they are an idiot, fine. Or not buy whatever it is they sell. But to just write them off completely is just wrong imo.

A sincere apology goes a long way with me.

 

[Lanny]

Why?

Why should he have to give up his entire career because he said something stupid? Have you never said anything ignorant? Should you have to give up your livelihood because you did?

If I had to apologize for every stupid thing I ever said and now totally regret, I'd be apologizing for the next thousand years and getting slapped in the face by women hundreds of times. Was I wrong? Hell yes. Sometimes I really wish I didn't have such a strong conscience.

 

[stampedehero]

I'm ok with cancelling someone like Meyers. Dude said some stupid shit and now he shouldn't get to be a pro athlete making millions of dollars.

What bothers me is when the same rules aren't applied to everyone. If Meyers is cut and never plays again, why were all the pro black athletes or celebs who came out with the anti-semitic shit during the summer cancelled?

Taking this to the next step; domestic violence would actually be a physical act causing harm and mental dilemma. Whether we be pro athletes or common joes on the street, that act is far more concerning than projecting a foul statement. To hit someone you care about is up the ladder. People could forget Leonard but most of us remember Ray Rice as the poster example of real harm upon another..

 

[jonnyboy]

I’m a big proponent of free market cancellation. Let dumbasses set their own traps to fall into. The louder they talk the more they expose themselves as not being worth listening to. Things will work themselves out naturally.

We don’t need billionaires with motives foreign to our own mitigating our information as they see fit.

 

[Minstrel]

I don’t think Kaepernick was cancelled by conservatives. I think he was a mediocre player who a lot of teams decided to not sign because he wasn’t very good and he wasn’t worth the headache that came with the politics. If it was Tom Brady do you think he would have been cancelled?

I think there’s a difference between Kevin Spacey getting cancelled and someone like Gina Carano who just got fired off the mandalorian. Also a person who was mediocre and who Disney decided wasn’t worth the headache.

Meyers is expendable because he’s not good. If LeBron came out I can guarantee nothing would happen.

You're all over the place. First you said that people like Kaepernick weren't cancelled but Meyers was. Your reasoning: Kaepernick sucked, it had nothing to do with being cancelled. Now you're making the same argument for Meyers, which implicitly argues he wasn't cancelled either.

I'm not sure you're really making a clear argument here. At least, as regards my post that you quoted. If your point is that it's easier to cancel people with less power in their field, I agree and think that's obvious. But that doesn't relate to my original post.

 

[RR7]

You're all over the place. First you said that people like Kaepernick weren't cancelled but Meyers was. Your reasoning: Kaepernick sucked, it had nothing to do with being cancelled. Now you're making the same argument for Meyers, which implicitly argues he wasn't cancelled either.

I'm not sure you're really making a clear argument here. At least, as regards my post that you quoted. If your point is that it's easier to cancel people with less power in their field, I agree and think that's obvious. But that doesn't relate to my original post.

I was confused about that as well.
So if you do something you know your fans won't like, it's not being canceled, because you should do what they want? But if you do something "accidental" or heat of the moment like Meyers, it is being canceled?

 

[Minstrel]

I was confused about that as well.
So if you do something you know your fans won't like, it's not being canceled, because you should do what they want? But if you do something "accidental" or heat of the moment like Meyers, it is being canceled?

But if so, that would imply people like Bill Cosby or Harvey Wienstein weren't cancelled, because their actions were neither accidental nor heat of the moment.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I'm Jewish. What Myers Leonard said is very insulting. But guess, what?

I'll get over it.

We all say stupid shit. We have all used words that we should not have used. What happened to forgiveness? Why is everyone's skin so damn thin these days? Why are someone's hurt feelings more important than just about anything else now?

For the record, I am not talking about sexual harassment. I'm talking about people like Chris Harrison (The Bachelor) or Kathy Griffin. Or Myers. He said something stupid. OK, so what? I never need to hear from him ever again? The punishment so does not fit the crime.

I don't get cancelling people people they were dumb, or boorish, or rude, or insensitive.

We can think they are an idiot, fine. Or not buy whatever it is they sell. But to just write them off completely is just wrong imo.

This this this this and this!!

 

[Natebishop3]

You're all over the place. First you said that people like Kaepernick weren't cancelled but Meyers was. Your reasoning: Kaepernick sucked, it had nothing to do with being cancelled. Now you're making the same argument for Meyers, which implicitly argues he wasn't cancelled either.

I'm not sure you're really making a clear argument here. At least, as regards my post that you quoted. If your point is that it's easier to cancel people with less power in their field, I agree and think that's obvious. But that doesn't relate to my original post.

I'm not sure how you guys are equating kneeling during the national anthem with someone dropping a racial slur on live stream.

I'm saying that typically being "cancelled" has come on the heels of someone doing something heinous. The term didn't exist during the Kaepernick or Dixie chicks thing. Didn't it really start with the Metoo movement? How is that related to conservatives and liberals?

 

[Minstrel]

I'm not sure how you guys are equating kneeling during the national anthem with someone dropping a racial slur on live stream.

I'm not equating the two activities. I'm equating the two reactions and results. If anything, what you're arguing here was that conservatives in football cancelled Kaepernick completely unjustly. If that's your point, I agree.

I'm saying that typically being "cancelled" has come on the heels of someone doing something heinous. The term didn't exist during the Kaepernick or Dixie chicks thing.

That was...my point. I'm a little baffled. Maybe you should go back and re-read my original post, because now you're arguing exactly what I did, as though it's new and opposed to what I said.

What I originally said was that conservatives have been in effect cancelling people for decades (and used the Dixie Chicks and Kaepernick as examples) but no one coined a term around it or called it a culture. It's only when it became associated with liberals that suddenly it's become a "culture."

You replied with a lot of stuff that really didn't relate to that point. Your point seems to be that it's easier to cancel people who have less power, which is true but doesn't have anything to do with what I said.

 

[Natebishop3]

I'm not equating the two activities. I'm equating the two reactions and results. If anything, what you're arguing here was that conservatives in football cancelled Kaepernick completely unjustly. If that's your point, I agree.



That was...my point. I'm a little baffled. Maybe you should go back and re-read my original post, because now you're arguing exactly what I did, as though it's new and opposed to what I said.

What I originally said was that conservatives have been in effect cancelling people for decades (and used the Dixie Chicks and Kaepernick as examples) but no one coined a term around it or called it a culture. It's only when it became associated with liberals that suddenly it's become a "culture."

You replied with a lot of stuff that really didn't relate to that point. Your point seems to be that it's easier to cancel people who have less power, which is true but doesn't have anything to do with what I said.

Ok new question - do you think conservatives are upset about cancel culture because of any celebrity, or do you think they're upset because liberals are going after every day people and trying to get them fired? Hell, we have a perfect example of that right here on the forum. Some douche went after HCP for making a joke. I can understand trying to get someone fired for storming the Capitol building, but I have heard that people have been targeting anyone who was even present that day outside the building.

So do you think every day people should be held to the same standards as celebrities?

And do you think Kaepernick was really cancelled? He played out his contract and then nobody signed him. I'm not sure how that exactly equates to conservatives cancelling him. Are conservatives the boogeyman now?

 

[RR7]

Ok new question - do you think conservatives are upset about cancel culture because of any celebrity, or do you think they're upset because liberals are going after every day people and trying to get them fired? Hell, we have a perfect example of that right here on the forum. Some douche went after HCP for making a joke. I can understand trying to get someone fired for storming the Capitol building, but I have heard that people have been targeting anyone who was even present that day outside the building.

So do you think every day people should be held to the same standards as celebrities?

And do you think Kaepernick was really cancelled? He played out his contract and then nobody signed him. I'm not sure how that exactly equates to conservatives cancelling him. Are conservatives the boogeyman now?

In regards to Kaep, his last season, he had a 16/4 TD/INT ratio, a QB rating of 90 and rushed for 40 yards a game. Was he the same player he was in 2013? Maybe not, but not that far off, really. He wasn't elite, but he compared favorably to Tannehill, Cam. To think it was his play and not his politics that completely banished him from the league is ignorant at best. Guys like RGIII are still in the league. Colt McCoy still has a job. Geno Smith. Chase Daniel.

As for comparing celebrities and normal people, really, if you say what Meyers did, do you think your work would just suspend you for a week? Are you saying everyday people shouldn't get in trouble for things like that, representing their companies in poor ways?

As for what conservatives are upset about it over, seems it's wide ranging. You have jack asses reading Dr. Seuss to their constituents while voting against helping them because of anger over cancel culture. We have conservative politicians talking more about Mr. Potato head than on covid relief because of anger of cancel culture. SO I don't think it's just a private citizen thing.

 

[Natebishop3]

In regards to Kaep, his last season, he had a 16/4 TD/INT ratio, a QB rating of 90 and rushed for 40 yards a game. Was he the same player he was in 2013? Maybe not, but not that far off, really. He wasn't elite, but he compared favorably to Tannehill, Cam. To think it was his play and not his politics that completely banished him from the league is ignorant at best. Guys like RGIII are still in the league. Colt McCoy still has a job. Geno Smith. Chase Daniel.

Okay, but how does this equate to conservatives cancelling him? He was a spectacle. A distraction. If you run a business you weigh the benefits and the costs. Is a backup QB who is doing something controversial worth the headache?

Disney just did the same thing with Gina Carano. She was posting a bunch of controversial shit online and they fired her because A) she's not the star of the show and B) it's bad for their brand. It wasn't a mass wave of liberal Star Wars fans who got her fired. It was the corporation that didn't want the headache from a small time actor. Was she cancelled or just fired because she was a bigger hassle than she was worth? Do you think liberals got her fired?

 

[RR7]

Okay, but how does this equate to conservatives cancelling him? He was a spectacle. A distraction. If you run a business you weigh the benefits and the costs. Is a backup QB who is doing something controversial worth the headache?

Disney just did the same thing with Gina Carano. She was posting a bunch of controversial shit online and they fired her because A) she's not the star of the show and B) it's bad for their brand. It wasn't a mass wave of liberal Star Wars fans who got her fired. It was the corporation that didn't want the headache from a small time actor. Was she cancelled or just fired because she was a bigger hassle than she was worth? Do you think liberals got her fired?

So are you arguing semantics of the term cancel culture? Disney did the same with Carano. yes. And conservatives got all upset and whined about cancel culture. I think that was Minstrel's point from the start, that you keep glossing over. Conservatives are fine with cancel culture when it's something they don't like, something that isn't worth the headache, or something they want to change, but came up with a buzzword term for it when it is liberals doing the same.

 

[Natebishop3]

So are you arguing semantics of the term cancel culture? Disney did the same with Carano. yes. And conservatives got all upset and whined about cancel culture. I think that was Minstrel's point from the start, that you keep glossing over. Conservatives are fine with cancel culture when it's something they don't like, something that isn't worth the headache, or something they want to change, but came up with a buzzword term for it when it is liberals doing the same.

Didn't the term start with metoo though? I don't think conservatives gave a shit when it was Kevin Spacey or Harvey Weinstein.

 

[RR7]

Didn't the term start with metoo though? I don't think conservatives gave a shit when it was Kevin Spacey or Harvey Weinstein.

I don't know the specific origin, it doesn't really fit with metoo unless people were complaining about it, since the term in general has a negative-ish connotation to it.

 

[Minstrel]

Ok new question - do you think conservatives are upset about cancel culture because of any celebrity, or do you think they're upset because liberals are going after every day people and trying to get them fired?

The whole term "cancel culture" was about celebrities--specifically, people with power like Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, etc. That was during the #metoo movement. That's when conservatives began complaining about how people were being "cancelled" and that even their prior work was not being distributed.

Then they began applying it to "regular people" being fired for doing stupid things. The things you claim aren't really cancel culture. So no, I think they were upset by it applying to celebrities and then began applying it to any conservative, famous or not, who caught consequences.

And do you think Kaepernick was really cancelled? He played out his contract and then nobody signed him. I'm not sure how that exactly equates to conservatives cancelling him.

Being blackballed when he was still an effective quarterback in the prime of this career obviously counts as being cancelled. On ability alone, he was better than plenty of quarterbacks in the league at the time, including some starters.

What you're really saying is, "Shouldn't we be concerned when liberals cancel conservatives, even if conservatives have been doing this for decades?" And that was my original point.

 

[Natebishop3]

https://www.insider.com/cancel-culture-meaning-history-origin-phrase-used-negatively-2020-7

 

[Natebishop3]

The whole term "cancel culture" was about celebrities--specifically, people with power like Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, etc. That was during the #metoo movement. That's when conservatives began complaining about how people were being "cancelled" and that even their prior work was not being distributed.

Then they began applying it to "regular people" being fired for doing stupid things. The things you claim aren't really cancel culture. So no, I think they were upset by it applying to celebrities and then began applying it to any conservative, famous or not, who caught consequences.



Being blackballed when he was still an effective quarterback in the prime of this career obviously counts as being cancelled. On ability alone, he was better than plenty of quarterbacks in the league at the time, including some starters.

What you're really saying is, "Shouldn't we be concerned when liberals cancel conservatives, even if conservatives have been doing this for decades?" And that was my original point.

You haven't really answered my question. How was Kaepernick cancelled by conservatives specifically? Did the GOP vote to cancel him or something? I must have missed that. Do you think it was only conservatives who were pissed about the flag thing at the time? Or are we applying post-George Floyd America to what happened at that time?

People getting fired, or people attempting to get them fired for merely attending a rally is not really a "stupid thing." That's like saying people who attended BLM protests that turned into riots were also guilty just by being there.

 

[Minstrel]

You haven't really answered my question. How was Kaepernick cancelled by conservatives specifically? Did the GOP vote to cancel him or something?

No...you believe that only politicians count as conservatives? Odd stance.

The owners who were either conservatives themselves or focusing on conservative anger over Kaepernick blackballed him.

People getting fired, or people attempting to get them fired for merely attending a rally is not really a "stupid thing."

Depends on the rally. I remember conservatives being up in arms about cancel culture when people identified from that neo-Nazi rally ("Jews shall not replace us") were fired from their jobs.

 

[Natebishop3]

No...you believe that only politicians count as conservatives? Odd stance.

The owners who were either conservatives themselves or focusing on conservative anger over Kaepernick blackballed him.



Depends on the rally. I remember conservatives being up in arms about cancel culture when people identified from that neo-Nazi rally ("Jews shall not replace us") were fired from their jobs.

Well, who qualifies as a conservative? Am I conservative? I haven't voted for a Republican since 2000. You guys have this blanket statement for anyone that disagrees with you on anything is now a conservative. It's not that black and white.

There were people who were in support of Kaepernick and there were people who were opposed to it and I can promise you there were conservatives and liberals in both camps.

 

[RR7]

There were people who were in support of Kaepernick and there were people who were opposed to it and I can promise you there were conservatives and liberals in both camps.

I imagine that number HEAVILY skews one way and the other for both camps.

 

[Natebishop3]

I imagine that number HEAVILY skews one way and the other for both camps.

But it's not based on anything other than feel.

Yet Minstrel is blaming the nefarious conservatives for Kaep not getting another job. If you want to be generalizing, you can say football fans got him fired.

 

[Minstrel]

But it's not based on anything other than feel.

It's based on polls. There were plenty of polls at the time that showed the partisan split on Kaepernick and on kneeling. Newsflash: it's the same partisan split on BLM. Shocking, I know. Probably all liberals pretending to be conservatives or something.

Yet Minstrel is blaming the nefarious conservatives for Kaep not getting another job.

For a reason. If you want to label conservatives "nefarious," that's your call. My point, which you've been arguing against for many posts without actually saying anything that argues against it, was that conservatives have been doing what is now called cancelling for generations, yet somehow now it's suddenly a "culture." Nothing in any of my posts called conservatives nefarious or evil...that's what you brought to the topic and randomly decided I was arguing.

In fact, this entire thread, you haven't seemed to understand what my original post actually said.

 

[RR7]

But it's not based on anything other than feel.

Yet Minstrel is blaming the nefarious conservatives for Kaep not getting another job. If you want to be generalizing, you can say football fans got him fired.

Look around at who was, and still does, complain about athletes kneeling.
Sorry I don't have the ability to poll each one. But if you think it's a solid mix of liberals and conservatives I don't know what to tell you.

 

[andalusian]

It's based on polls. There were plenty of polls at the time that showed the partisan split on Kaepernick and on kneeling. Newsflash: it's the same partisan split on BLM. Shocking, I know. Probably all liberals pretending to be conservatives or something.

https://nypost.com/2020/06/13/most-americans-now-agree-with-colin-kaepernicks-protest-poll/

"Democrats strongly favored the right to protest, at 77%. Only 20% of Republicans, and 20% of self-described Trump voters, said yes. Along racial lines, 77% of blacks, 57% of Hispanics and 47% of whites"

 

[Natebishop3]

It's based on polls. There were plenty of polls at the time that showed the partisan split on Kaepernick and on kneeling. Newsflash: it's the same partisan split on BLM. Shocking, I know. Probably all liberals pretending to be conservatives or something.



For a reason. If you want to label conservatives "nefarious," that's your call. My point, which you've been arguing against for many posts without actually saying anything that argues against it, was that conservatives have been doing what is now called cancelling for generations, yet somehow now it's suddenly a "culture." Nothing in any of my posts called conservatives nefarious or evil...that's what you brought to the topic and randomly decided I was arguing.

In fact, this entire thread, you haven't seemed to understand what my original post actually said.

The difference now compared to the past are pretty obvious.

Conservatives aren't going to complain if they're cancelling someone from a largely conservative medium. IE country music, football, etc etc etc.

Just like conservatives don't give a shit if liberals cancel someone from their own ranks IE Weinstein, Spacey, etc.

But yes, conservatives are going to get butthurt if liberals are cancelling conservatives. Just as liberals were angry that Kaep was blackballed, I'm sure conservatives are outraged at Gena Carano getting blackballed. Do conservatives have the power to cancel liberals from a largely liberal medium? Find me an example of that.

 

[riverman]

Didn't the term start with metoo though? I don't think conservatives gave a shit when it was Kevin Spacey or Harvey Weinstein.

You are probably too young to have lived through the McCarthy commie black listed witch hunts post WWII.....Charlie Chaplin was basically exiled and denied academy awards over it as were many many hollywood fixtures...many Jewish americans had to write scripts under false names to work after the cold war commie hatred became the norm..before that there were card carrying communists or socialists in our country who weren't afraid to express themselves... Native americans and blacks have been cancelled since before we got independence.....this isn't some modern day fad. Cell phones have enabled more people to call out bad behavior as has the internet.....otherwise you wouldn't hear about cops abusing power in the streets...now they're on film when they do it. In the 50s Bernie Sanders would have been run out of office for his policy beliefs

 

[Minstrel]

Just like conservatives don't give a shit if liberals cancel someone from their own ranks IE Weinstein, Spacey, etc.

They did give a shit. That's when the whole "cancel culture" meme started.

 

[e_blazer]

They did give a shit. That's when the whole "cancel culture" meme started.

Man, these labels are just kind of silly these days. Cancel culture used to be a personal choice, "Well that guy's an asshole and I'm not going to any more of his movies."

Speaking of labels, Minstrel, how do you feel about the "person of color" that's been adopted as the correct way to refer to non-white folks? Just seems kind of awkward to me.